Originally Posted by
redcon1
The effect of countersteering is easy to see in Keith Code's videos with the motorcyle fitted with a fixed bar. it is impossible to turn the motorcycle more than a few degrees off center by the rider leaning. This would be easy enough to verify on your bicycle. Weld or otherwise lock your headset to not allow turning of the bar/fork. Then you can lean all you like to test out the theory. Please report the results back here.
Riding with no hands, bicycle or motorcycle, is not an issue, including turning to follow the roadway or even do stunts-- but your weight shifts are actually inducing countersteering.
So, the need for a movable steerer=countersteering is the method in which it is employed? That's a complete non sequitur.
When I lean into a turn, my wheel turns into the direction of the lean, not against it. That's not evidence of countersteering, just steering into a turn.
Weight shifts initiate countersteering is a contradiction in terms, btw, so your last statement is total nonsense.
Yes, handlebars play a role in steering, nobody is stupid enough to assert otherwise. The question is whether countersteering is what they're used for.. And if it is, what exactly does that mean for stem length, which is the topic of the thread.
Motorcycles have absolutely no relevance here, btw. Weight, speed, position and motion of the riders are completely different from bicycles. I'm not watching any video on how to turn a motorcycle because I have no reason to care.