Originally Posted by Road Fan

CFB, "your hip angle is stupid small"... he expects that at your age your knee either should not be coming up so high, or your torso should be angled more toward the upright? If I get fitted today I think I'll get the same comment. I think my "stem slamming factor" is about the same as it was in my '50s.

For the OP: it sounds to me like your first bike, the Cannondale, has always been either either a centimeter or two too long in reach to the hoods, or your saddle was not in the correct place fore/aft and possible vertically. I don't think there's a "magic fit" with an "endurance bike" versus a ... "sport bike" I would normally say I would match the contact points of your newer bike to those of your older bike, and then see if theres a significant difference. I would first get a good fitting on the Cannondale and pursue it until those problems are rectified, then use what you learn to improve the Trek, or just match the Trek to the 'dale.

I like to match my saddle position to my center of gravity when on the hoods or drops, like a skier's tuck so my weight is balanced over the BB. When riding over bumps or just sketchy road, I want to be able to lift my butt and hands up and down together to contact the bike when it is smooth and float over the bike when it is not. This has a lot to do with whether I feel beat up by the bike. At the same time, the saddle height from the sitbone contact to the BB center or pedal top should allow me to pedal at a decent cadence, minimize hip-rocking (which brings pelvic/perineal abrasion), and ability to push with my glutes if I grasp the hooks hard. Obviously my legs are not so strongly extended that I cannot lift up a little to keep the saddle from kicking me!

When I achieve this position, there is usually very low hand pressure on my hands. If I can also stand to pedal at times, so much the better. The older books and common wisdom do not talk much about measuring from BB center to sitbone contacts, with the notable exceptions of the blogs and website of Steve Hogg and the Phil Burt book "Bike Fit." There may be similar understanding in the Tri world, but i haven't followed them. Talking with the guys in a few shops, I think fitting a tri bike is very exacting. I think they have seen how small variations can measurably affect performance.

After all that saddle position (fore/aft, up/down, pitch up/pitch down, and yaw right/left) is settled at least good enough for an hour on the trainer (it's been winter here in Michigan!), so just ride. Next, I like to see if there is any change in whether your hands can stay out on the hoods or not, which I think was part of your original problem on the 'dale. It may be there is no problem after fixing the saddle setup, but if there is, try a stem that moves the bars 1 cm closer. If your 'dale has a threadless fork, this will be a cheap fix. Don't alter the height, or saddle to bar drop, significantly.

I can't say this strategy will work for you, but it is what I have done and would do again, and I don't have much left in terms of my own fit concerns. Same for Mrs Road Fan, who doesn't want to know what's behind it, but knows finally that if I ask her to pedal for me, an improvement is probably coming. However, she can get aggressive it I seem to be messing with her bike setup!

I got an open "work order" (lol!) to move her saddle (a B-17) back a little bit, but I don't see where I have options to slam it more.