Light Bicycle Wheels
#401
staring at the mountains
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Castle Pines, CO
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but to keep this on topic ... I will be finishing the bday build in the next day or so.
Vredestein Fortezza Senso all weather in 25mm. --oh and if anyone is curious how they went on ... "snug" might be an understatement. Took me like 10min per tire. They look really good on, though
Vredestein Fortezza Senso all weather in 25mm. --oh and if anyone is curious how they went on ... "snug" might be an understatement. Took me like 10min per tire. They look really good on, though
Last edited by superdex; 05-15-19 at 07:40 PM.
#402
I know just enough to know what I don't know. And that includes not depending on manufacturers and marketers for technical expertise. For the rear wheel/front wheel question, I do understand that rear discs are used rather than front discs because front discs impair steering. But the relative effects of rear wheel and front wheel profile on overall drag is not something I've seen discussed by independent experts (and I don't count cycling journalists as independent experts. I prefer reading what the engineers have to say, preferably publishing in the peer-reviewed literature). If somebody has a pointer to something pertinent, I'd appreciate it.
On a tangential subject, the tendency to wider tires that marketers are selling ignores the importance of having a narrow tire in the front where the width of the bluff body matters. Most of the advantages of a better ride from a wider tire comes from the rear. Thus, quoting Hambini "From an aerodynamic perspective, the width of the rear tyre has little effect but the width of the front tyre has much more impact and therefore a 23mm front tyre is recommended irrespective of whether the wheel was designed for 25mm tyres. At speeds above 30km/h, it is more beneficial to have 23mm tyres than 25mm front tyres for aerodynamic benefit."
On a tangential subject, the tendency to wider tires that marketers are selling ignores the importance of having a narrow tire in the front where the width of the bluff body matters. Most of the advantages of a better ride from a wider tire comes from the rear. Thus, quoting Hambini "From an aerodynamic perspective, the width of the rear tyre has little effect but the width of the front tyre has much more impact and therefore a 23mm front tyre is recommended irrespective of whether the wheel was designed for 25mm tyres. At speeds above 30km/h, it is more beneficial to have 23mm tyres than 25mm front tyres for aerodynamic benefit."
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that you are the one that has it wrong.
#403
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
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Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220
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#404
Senior Member
Yup, reductio ad absurdum. As in how well does a tire corner when it is 1 meter wide?
There's a sweet spot in there and we already know that it's between, say, 23 and 28 mm. But if we are going to fuss about carbon rims for their aerodynamic properties, we shouldn't forget that the profile of the nose (to use an analogy from aircraft) plays a big role and for a bike, the nose is the front tire.
Further quoting Hambini (same page as linked above) "It is vitally important to install tyres that are slightly narrower or inline with the brake track of the wheel rim. A ballooning tyre will impact the drag significantly."
There's a sweet spot in there and we already know that it's between, say, 23 and 28 mm. But if we are going to fuss about carbon rims for their aerodynamic properties, we shouldn't forget that the profile of the nose (to use an analogy from aircraft) plays a big role and for a bike, the nose is the front tire.
Further quoting Hambini (same page as linked above) "It is vitally important to install tyres that are slightly narrower or inline with the brake track of the wheel rim. A ballooning tyre will impact the drag significantly."
One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions. Even Hammurabi's.
#405
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Palm Desert, CA
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Another quick update for those that ride tubeless.
seems like when I installed the conti 5000’s I didn’t use enough sealant (which upon looking at my bottlenwould seem to be the case, probably used less than an ounce in each wheel).
at any rate, I noticed that in between rides I was losing a lot of air, like 30lbs over 2-3 days, pumping a lot before each ride. I eventually took the time to put the bike on the stand and put a dipstick in my valves and realize that for the first time ever my Sealant had completely evaporated.
Put more orange seal in and now all good, but moral of the story is that the stock tubeless tape job seems to lose more air with these wheels when dry than others I’ve had.
seems like when I installed the conti 5000’s I didn’t use enough sealant (which upon looking at my bottlenwould seem to be the case, probably used less than an ounce in each wheel).
at any rate, I noticed that in between rides I was losing a lot of air, like 30lbs over 2-3 days, pumping a lot before each ride. I eventually took the time to put the bike on the stand and put a dipstick in my valves and realize that for the first time ever my Sealant had completely evaporated.
Put more orange seal in and now all good, but moral of the story is that the stock tubeless tape job seems to lose more air with these wheels when dry than others I’ve had.
#406
I noticed that in between rides I was losing a lot of air, like 30lbs over 2-3 days, pumping a lot before each ride. I eventually took the time to put the bike on the stand and put a dipstick in my valves and realize that for the first time ever my Sealant had completely evaporated.
Put more orange seal in and now all good, but moral of the story is that the stock tubeless tape job seems to lose more air with these wheels when dry than others I’ve had.
Put more orange seal in and now all good, but moral of the story is that the stock tubeless tape job seems to lose more air with these wheels when dry than others I’ve had.
#407
FLIR Kitten to 0.05C
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,331
Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2
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Another quick update for those that ride tubeless.
seems like when I installed the conti 5000’s I didn’t use enough sealant (which upon looking at my bottlenwould seem to be the case, probably used less than an ounce in each wheel).
at any rate, I noticed that in between rides I was losing a lot of air, like 30lbs over 2-3 days, pumping a lot before each ride. I eventually took the time to put the bike on the stand and put a dipstick in my valves and realize that for the first time ever my Sealant had completely evaporated.
Put more orange seal in and now all good, but moral of the story is that the stock tubeless tape job seems to lose more air with these wheels when dry than others I’ve had.
seems like when I installed the conti 5000’s I didn’t use enough sealant (which upon looking at my bottlenwould seem to be the case, probably used less than an ounce in each wheel).
at any rate, I noticed that in between rides I was losing a lot of air, like 30lbs over 2-3 days, pumping a lot before each ride. I eventually took the time to put the bike on the stand and put a dipstick in my valves and realize that for the first time ever my Sealant had completely evaporated.
Put more orange seal in and now all good, but moral of the story is that the stock tubeless tape job seems to lose more air with these wheels when dry than others I’ve had.
It is an option during the build selection to install tape and valves.
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#408
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Location: Palm Desert, CA
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yep, comes that way when buying through North American distributor
Perhaps, but I don’t think so since I’ve not had this Happen before and I’m pretty good with mounting mybtubeless tires. I rarely run the sealant dry it has happened every now and again over the last five years
Perhaps, but I don’t think so since I’ve not had this Happen before and I’m pretty good with mounting mybtubeless tires. I rarely run the sealant dry it has happened every now and again over the last five years
#409
#410
FLIR Kitten to 0.05C
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,331
Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2
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Dunno.
#411
#413
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Palm Desert, CA
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Bikes: Speedvagen Steel
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Another quick update for those that ride tubeless.
seems like when I installed the conti 5000’s I didn’t use enough sealant (which upon looking at my bottlenwould seem to be the case, probably used less than an ounce in each wheel).
at any rate, I noticed that in between rides I was losing a lot of air, like 30lbs over 2-3 days, pumping a lot before each ride. I eventually took the time to put the bike on the stand and put a dipstick in my valves and realize that for the first time ever my Sealant had completely evaporated.
Put more orange seal in and now all good, but moral of the story is that the stock tubeless tape job seems to lose more air with these wheels when dry than others I’ve had.
seems like when I installed the conti 5000’s I didn’t use enough sealant (which upon looking at my bottlenwould seem to be the case, probably used less than an ounce in each wheel).
at any rate, I noticed that in between rides I was losing a lot of air, like 30lbs over 2-3 days, pumping a lot before each ride. I eventually took the time to put the bike on the stand and put a dipstick in my valves and realize that for the first time ever my Sealant had completely evaporated.
Put more orange seal in and now all good, but moral of the story is that the stock tubeless tape job seems to lose more air with these wheels when dry than others I’ve had.
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#414
#415
staring at the mountains
Join Date: Mar 2005
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So small word of caution -- the brake pads LB provides are "Shimano" compatible, except when they're not:
Top is stock pad (Campagnolo Potenza, uses Shimano pads), blue is the one from LB. Notice the LB pad is more of a wedge shape. Doesn't fit completely in the carrier. Shrug, just ordered some SwissStops anyway.
Top is stock pad (Campagnolo Potenza, uses Shimano pads), blue is the one from LB. Notice the LB pad is more of a wedge shape. Doesn't fit completely in the carrier. Shrug, just ordered some SwissStops anyway.
#416
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,969
Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220
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So small word of caution -- the brake pads LB provides are "Shimano" compatible, except when they're not:
Top is stock pad (Campagnolo Potenza, uses Shimano pads), blue is the one from LB. Notice the LB pad is more of a wedge shape. Doesn't fit completely in the carrier. Shrug, just ordered some SwissStops anyway.
Top is stock pad (Campagnolo Potenza, uses Shimano pads), blue is the one from LB. Notice the LB pad is more of a wedge shape. Doesn't fit completely in the carrier. Shrug, just ordered some SwissStops anyway.
#418
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
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Still waiting. Order was placed on April 25. One rime is "finished", the other is in "painting", so it should be close. But it looks like shipping will be closer to a month from the time of order. I guess I wouldn't feel so impatient if they had not upped my expectations for fast shipping time.
#419
Senior Member
Lol, so true!
I installed 25mm gp5k on my 56LB with ZERO sealant, they work just fine! I'll only add some when I get the first flat.
I use those pads on Campy Skeleton non series (the cheapest one) probably the same carrier. They were a bit tight, they would fit if I pushed hard but I took a knife and made the grooves just a bit deeper. Not sure yours are tight in the same place. But that was a 2min fix, and they are working wonderfully well. Both the pads and rims show no signs of wear after 2500km.
I use those pads on Campy Skeleton non series (the cheapest one) probably the same carrier. They were a bit tight, they would fit if I pushed hard but I took a knife and made the grooves just a bit deeper. Not sure yours are tight in the same place. But that was a 2min fix, and they are working wonderfully well. Both the pads and rims show no signs of wear after 2500km.
#420
Senior Member
I'm not sure that this is right. An aerodynamic profile can maintain laminar flow and inhibit initiation of turbulent flow. But once the flow is turbulent, the game is up. I haven't seen any data to suggest that an aerodynamic profile can actually take turbulent flow and force it to become laminar. If there are any aeronautical engineers peering at this thread, maybe they could clarify?
Choose the deepest front that you can handle. If you can afford only one wheel, get a front one first (poor man's setup).
Then for the rear you just match the front, or if available get the deepest one because that won't affect handling anyway.
I'd have something like Venn Var 77 on both wheels but LB only makes 56 so far. If they did an 80x30mm rim and I could only have one set I'd get 56/80, and as soon as money allowed, get another front wheel, so when there's not much wind I'd go 80/80, and windy days swap the front wheel only.
Then, last thing, I'd buy a 56 rear one for hilly rides. Or maybe not. And yes, that 56 I use for climbing as well, they are light enough at 1460g.
Anyway, 56's are great as a pair already, but as soon as LB has something deeper I'm ordering.
#421
Senior Member
For those who have had these wheels for a couple of weeks now: how are they holding up? How true are they staying after a few weeks of riding?
Post the conditions you have been riding in as well: Bad roads, lots of bumps? Wet weather?
Thanks!
Post the conditions you have been riding in as well: Bad roads, lots of bumps? Wet weather?
Thanks!
#422
Senior Member
3 weeks of riding them, about 700kms, on decent roads, but we have a lot of crappy 'speed breakers', which are small steep humps in series. I hit them at reasonable speed, and wheels have held up and remained true. I like them so far. A lot.
#423
The roads in the Phoenix area are usually good, but a few sections of road(usually at intersections) are quite torn up. With 30mm Schwalbe G-One Speed tires @60psi, I roll right through the roughest pavement without any discomfort.
#424
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: VA
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Bikes: SuperSix Evo | Revolt
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Three centuries on mine, riding 200+mpw, not sure how many miles I've put on them, but a lot, and quickly lol I have nailed several potholes at 30+mph, and I've had one low speed crash, still true, no issues at all. I'm 185lbs with decent power and I ride hard, they're doing great!!
#425
Senior Member
But I gave up on that. I carry a 60ml sealant bottle around in my saddle bag, even if there's already sealant in the tires. As well as a Topeak survival box, tube, patches, hammer, anvil, welding machine, everything. Ok, only true up to the patches. You never know, I rather have it all inside a saddle bag and never worry.
So on my gravel bike, which does have some sealant inside, I stopped checking if it's dry. I will only add some the day I get a flat that doesn't seal because there's no liquid. Following the same thought, I haven't added any to my road bike yet since the tires are new.
I will add during races, and then suck it all off with a syringe through the valve after the event. During a training ride I don't mind getting a flat and fixing it in a couple minutes, plus it won't spill on my frame and my ass during the ride - I can wait it work before resume riding. And probably, after that I'll suck the excess off when back at home.
I once opened my tubeless tires and scrapped all the dry sealant off it after a few months. There was some 60g of dry latex there already and I'm a weight weenie... So why bother with that? Just ride without sealant if there's no hole to be fixed.