Ask your small, random, track-related questions here
#5701
Senior Member
This reminds me I need to send my BSA BB SRM (original type with the replaceable arms held on with 3 little bolts) for battery change.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
#5702
out walking the earth
They tried to get me to upgrade to PC8 also. Just went with the battery replacements as well.
#5705
Lapped 3x
33.5 mm × 24 TPI Campagnolo, Gipiemme, Phil Wood, Miche
1.29" × 24 TPI Shimano, Suntour, Formula, Dimension, Suzue, Surly, Zipp, Corima - This is the ISO standard.
33.0 mm × 1 Mavic
There is one case where the lockring/cog combo matters, and that is when you use a 12 tooth cog. They come with their own special lockrings that have a smaller outer diameter, so that the chain doesn't ride on the lockring instead of the cog. I have only ever seen this combination use the ISO standard.
Likes For taras0000:
#5706
Typically, any lockring will do, but it depends on which hub you have, not which cog you have, as it is the hub that accepts the lockring, not the cog. Most hubs use the ISO standard, but there are some out there that use separate standards.
33.5 mm × 24 TPI Campagnolo, Gipiemme, Phil Wood, Miche
1.29" × 24 TPI Shimano, Suntour, Formula, Dimension, Suzue, Surly, Zipp, Corima - This is the ISO standard.
33.0 mm × 1 Mavic
There is one case where the lockring/cog combo matters, and that is when you use a 12 tooth cog. They come with their own special lockrings that have a smaller outer diameter, so that the chain doesn't ride on the lockring instead of the cog. I have only ever seen this combination use the ISO standard.
33.5 mm × 24 TPI Campagnolo, Gipiemme, Phil Wood, Miche
1.29" × 24 TPI Shimano, Suntour, Formula, Dimension, Suzue, Surly, Zipp, Corima - This is the ISO standard.
33.0 mm × 1 Mavic
There is one case where the lockring/cog combo matters, and that is when you use a 12 tooth cog. They come with their own special lockrings that have a smaller outer diameter, so that the chain doesn't ride on the lockring instead of the cog. I have only ever seen this combination use the ISO standard.
#5707
Senior Member
Not sure where to ask this. Looked briefly but didn't find anything.
I'm lifting now and, among other things, doing the leg sled thing. My goal is to improve overall power and specifically peak power out to 35 seconds. I'm exploring limits on the sled and I'm honestly afraid of overdoing it.
Right now I have 260 lbs weight on the sled (total plates - 55+55+25 on each side). I can do 8 reps pretty readily but each one is a decent effort, it's just that I'm not getting that "failure" feeling like I do when I do other exercises. I might be able to do 12 or more reps if I kept going, but my goal is to increase peak power so I want to keep reps down and get the weight up. I'd call 260 lbs "medium heavy" to "heavy heavy". I can't imagine going much more than about 350 lbs at this point, and I'll be trying 280-300 next time out. I weigh 176-178, overweight by a solid 15-20 lbs of pure fat and theoretically should be able to lose another 10-15 lbs after that but the second bit doesn't seem realistic.
I asked someone ("former gymrat", not a rider, and not big by any means, he's much smaller than me, 140?) what he did and he said "600-700".
That didn't seem possible, but then again maybe I just don't know. It just seems really high.
I plan on transitioning to doing actual squats with free weights and a bar, but I'll ease into that. I plan on doing form squats soon, empty bar etc (from the UP UP UP thing).
So on the leg sled, at my weight, what sort of weight should I be able to do? If broadly categorizing like w/kg, what's like 3 w/kg weight, the 4 w/kg, the 5 w/kg?
I'm lifting now and, among other things, doing the leg sled thing. My goal is to improve overall power and specifically peak power out to 35 seconds. I'm exploring limits on the sled and I'm honestly afraid of overdoing it.
Right now I have 260 lbs weight on the sled (total plates - 55+55+25 on each side). I can do 8 reps pretty readily but each one is a decent effort, it's just that I'm not getting that "failure" feeling like I do when I do other exercises. I might be able to do 12 or more reps if I kept going, but my goal is to increase peak power so I want to keep reps down and get the weight up. I'd call 260 lbs "medium heavy" to "heavy heavy". I can't imagine going much more than about 350 lbs at this point, and I'll be trying 280-300 next time out. I weigh 176-178, overweight by a solid 15-20 lbs of pure fat and theoretically should be able to lose another 10-15 lbs after that but the second bit doesn't seem realistic.
I asked someone ("former gymrat", not a rider, and not big by any means, he's much smaller than me, 140?) what he did and he said "600-700".
That didn't seem possible, but then again maybe I just don't know. It just seems really high.
I plan on transitioning to doing actual squats with free weights and a bar, but I'll ease into that. I plan on doing form squats soon, empty bar etc (from the UP UP UP thing).
So on the leg sled, at my weight, what sort of weight should I be able to do? If broadly categorizing like w/kg, what's like 3 w/kg weight, the 4 w/kg, the 5 w/kg?
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
#5708
Elitist
Thread Starter
Looking back on my logs, back in summer 2018 I was single leg pressing 440lbs x 10 on each leg. The year before that, I was leg-pressing 775lbs 3 set of 5, in my 40s. I know of smaller guys who can do more than that.
One thing to remember is that, due to the angle of the sled, you aren't lifting that much weight vertically off of the ground. If the sled is 45 degrees, you are feeling about 72% of the weight (plates plus sled weight) on your feet.
That may still seem like a lot when compared to squatting, but know that when a person squats, they are actually squatting MORE than the plates and the bar. They are also adding their upper body weight to the mix. So, if a 200lb guy is squatting 150lbs on his shoulders, his legs are squatting 150lbs + 100lbs of upper body (round number for conversation's sake) for a total of 250lbs of load on his legs. Now, if he wanted to recreate the same level of load on the leg press machine, he'd have to have the sled and weights weigh about 350lbs.
In his log book, he'd note:
Squat: 150lbs.
Leg Press: 350lbs
And they'd essentially provide the same amount of load on his legs.
That is why leg press numbers seem so much higher than Squat numbers. No one is getting over by doing leg press. It's just a lot of not-so-obvious arithmetic going on. Basically, when you squat, you are squatting more than the numbers on the bar and when you leg press, you are pressing less than the numbers on the bar
One thing to remember is that, due to the angle of the sled, you aren't lifting that much weight vertically off of the ground. If the sled is 45 degrees, you are feeling about 72% of the weight (plates plus sled weight) on your feet.
That may still seem like a lot when compared to squatting, but know that when a person squats, they are actually squatting MORE than the plates and the bar. They are also adding their upper body weight to the mix. So, if a 200lb guy is squatting 150lbs on his shoulders, his legs are squatting 150lbs + 100lbs of upper body (round number for conversation's sake) for a total of 250lbs of load on his legs. Now, if he wanted to recreate the same level of load on the leg press machine, he'd have to have the sled and weights weigh about 350lbs.
In his log book, he'd note:
Squat: 150lbs.
Leg Press: 350lbs
And they'd essentially provide the same amount of load on his legs.
That is why leg press numbers seem so much higher than Squat numbers. No one is getting over by doing leg press. It's just a lot of not-so-obvious arithmetic going on. Basically, when you squat, you are squatting more than the numbers on the bar and when you leg press, you are pressing less than the numbers on the bar
Last edited by carleton; 01-07-20 at 06:55 AM.
#5709
Elitist
Thread Starter
All of the leg press info is assuming that you are using a slanted leg press machine, like maybe 45 degrees.
If you are using a vertical leg press machine (where you lay on your back and push the weight directly up into the air), then you are lifting 100% of the weight listed.
It's difficult to speak about cable-driven leg press machines (the non-freeweight kind). These do lift the weight vertically in the air, but it may not be obvious if there are pulleys involved that provide some mechanical advantage (e.g. Move the move your feet 1 foot but raise the weight 0.5 feet).
To answer your question about leg press standards. To be honest, I think you'll be better served by finding a good, progressive leg press program and see how far you can go. I took the Starting Strength squat program and adapted it for Leg Press and Single Leg Press over the years with great success. I never focused on both. It was either my main lift was leg press or my main lift was single leg press for that long lifting period. I also used weightlifting shoes when the weight got heavier. This helped a lot.
If you are using a vertical leg press machine (where you lay on your back and push the weight directly up into the air), then you are lifting 100% of the weight listed.
It's difficult to speak about cable-driven leg press machines (the non-freeweight kind). These do lift the weight vertically in the air, but it may not be obvious if there are pulleys involved that provide some mechanical advantage (e.g. Move the move your feet 1 foot but raise the weight 0.5 feet).
To answer your question about leg press standards. To be honest, I think you'll be better served by finding a good, progressive leg press program and see how far you can go. I took the Starting Strength squat program and adapted it for Leg Press and Single Leg Press over the years with great success. I never focused on both. It was either my main lift was leg press or my main lift was single leg press for that long lifting period. I also used weightlifting shoes when the weight got heavier. This helped a lot.
#5710
Senior Member
Thanks. I didn't think of the sled weight, it's got to be substantial, more than the 20kg or whatever an Olympic bar weighs.
Also the leg sled I use does go up at a 45-ish degree angle.
I don't know the brand, sled weight, etc, I'll have to take a picture of it when I go next (maybe now? I have to be at work soon though).
Also the leg sled I use does go up at a 45-ish degree angle.
I don't know the brand, sled weight, etc, I'll have to take a picture of it when I go next (maybe now? I have to be at work soon though).
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
#5711
Elitist
Thread Starter
Thanks. I didn't think of the sled weight, it's got to be substantial, more than the 20kg or whatever an Olympic bar weighs.
Also the leg sled I use does go up at a 45-ish degree angle.
I don't know the brand, sled weight, etc, I'll have to take a picture of it when I go next (maybe now? I have to be at work soon though).
Also the leg sled I use does go up at a 45-ish degree angle.
I don't know the brand, sled weight, etc, I'll have to take a picture of it when I go next (maybe now? I have to be at work soon though).
A simple program that I adapted from Starting Strength:
I'd lift leg press (or single leg press) 3 days/week with at least 1 day rest between.
My workout looked like this:
- Sled only: 5 reps
- Sled only: 5 reps
- 40% of working weight: 5 reps
- 60% of working weight: 3 reps
- 80% of working weight: 2 reps
- 100% of working weight: 5 reps
- 100% of working weight: 5 reps
- 100% of working weight: 5 reps
So, if my target weight was 600lbs, I'd multiply 600 times .40, .60, and .80 to get the values for the sets listed above. They don't have to be exact. It's just warmup. Do what's easiest in terms of getting plates on and off. Don't go hunting for 2.5lb plates
I'd increase my target weight 20-40 lbs each day until I missed completing a rep or set (as per the book, just more weight because it's leg press not squat). However, if I felt really strong after the first set at 100% (maybe well-rested or well-fed), I'll add weight for the 2nd set forward. Basically, feel it out and don't be such a robot about it.
Remember not to cheat the rep. It's easy to cheat on the leg press just like the squat, where you don't go down deep enough.
I've seen people leg press heavy with only socks on. I think that's gross in a public gym. I really liked using weightlifting shoes (not just sneakers) for heavy leg press. It gave me a lot more confidence.
Don't sleep on leg press. Some of the top sprinters in the world use it as their main heavy lift. But, don't rely on it to train your core and back like the squat does. So, you'll have to do deadlifts as well. I did them twice a week.
#5712
When you said Leg Sled, I was thinking of the sled where you stack weight on top then push it across the floor.
And as Carleton said, you should be able to press a lot more weight than you can squat or deadlift.
Lastly, I prefer going barefoot as the weight gets heavier. I am much more stable without shoes. And I have incredibly wide feet, so I can't really find lifting shoes that fit me well.
And as Carleton said, you should be able to press a lot more weight than you can squat or deadlift.
Lastly, I prefer going barefoot as the weight gets heavier. I am much more stable without shoes. And I have incredibly wide feet, so I can't really find lifting shoes that fit me well.
#5713
Elitist
Thread Starter
When you said Leg Sled, I was thinking of the sled where you stack weight on top then push it across the floor.
And as Carleton said, you should be able to press a lot more weight than you can squat or deadlift.
Lastly, I prefer going barefoot as the weight gets heavier. I am much more stable without shoes. And I have incredibly wide feet, so I can't really find lifting shoes that fit me well.
And as Carleton said, you should be able to press a lot more weight than you can squat or deadlift.
Lastly, I prefer going barefoot as the weight gets heavier. I am much more stable without shoes. And I have incredibly wide feet, so I can't really find lifting shoes that fit me well.
#5714
Elitist
Thread Starter
Lots of great info here: https://www.bikeforums.net/track-cyc...t-lifting.html
#5715
Senior Member
If you're looking to improve maximal POWER, you may need to do some different things to lifting as much as you can on a leg press. You might want to try some explosive movements, like single leg press throws, power cleans, and box jump type stuff.
Likes For Baby Puke:
#5716
Senior Member
Lots of great info here: https://www.bikeforums.net/track-cyc...t-lifting.html
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
#5717
Senior Member
I hear you. I'm ramping up slowly, I want to avoid injuries. The leg press throws and box jump stuff will be in my future. I have to pedal better also. Long list of things to do.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
#5718
re BP's comment, one of the helpful things somebody taught me is that strength is base training for power. so the progression goes: strength -> power (strength fast) -> speed (using power to go fast) -> speed endurance (going fast for a longer period of time).
#5719
Elitist
Thread Starter
Exactly.
Coincidentally, that’s also that’s the order of how long gains in those areas lasts. Meaning: Strength lasts longer than Power which lasts longer than Speed which lasts longer than Speed Endurance.
That’s the order in which you should train those skills so that they stack and compliment each other.
Basically, it’s useless to train for Speed 8 months out from your big event. And you missed the boat if you start training Strength a month out from your big event.
This is why you see sprinters train raw strength in the winter and top speed and speed endurance behind a motorbike a couple of weeks before their big event.
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#5720
Elitist
Thread Starter
This super fast decay of speed explains why people can ride a PB flying 200 at Nationals, then 2-3 weeks later ride a terrible time.
The concept is called “Periodization”.
It’s not the absolute only way to do it. There is also “Reverse Periodization” which is similar, but iterating over smaller cycles.
The concept is called “Periodization”.
It’s not the absolute only way to do it. There is also “Reverse Periodization” which is similar, but iterating over smaller cycles.
#5721
Senior Member
Right. As others have mentioned, there is a sequence to these things. The Starting Strength beginner's program (gospel to many) has you jumping in with cleans from day one, but there is a general consensus in the training info I've seen that before getting to explosive/plyometric stuff you should first get a reasonable level of basic strength. That said, for me it helps to start the explosive stuff as soon as possible. For my meager gym numbers, that means as soon as I am squatting around 110kg, the explosive stuff starts.
#5722
Senior Member
Right now I'm realistically just too weak. I want to work on the strength first. I'll be interspersing some form riding as I'll be moving down to 170mm cranks at the very least (it's what I have on my old track bike, my spin bike, and my future cranks for my Dolan). I figure the speed stuff can wait until May.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
#5723
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 13,336
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Liked 4,339 Times
in
2,793 Posts
Typically, any lockring will do, but it depends on which hub you have, not which cog you have, as it is the hub that accepts the lockring, not the cog. Most hubs use the ISO standard, but there are some out there that use separate standards.
33.5 mm × 24 TPI Campagnolo, Gipiemme, Phil Wood, Miche
1.29" × 24 TPI Shimano, Suntour, Formula, Dimension, Suzue, Surly, Zipp, Corima - This is the ISO standard.
33.0 mm × 1 Mavic
Thereis one are two cases where the lockring/cog combo matters. One and that is when you use a 12 tooth cog. They come with their own special lockrings that have a smaller outer diameter, so that the chain doesn't ride on the lockring instead of the cog. I have only ever seen this combination use the ISO standard.
33.5 mm × 24 TPI Campagnolo, Gipiemme, Phil Wood, Miche
1.29" × 24 TPI Shimano, Suntour, Formula, Dimension, Suzue, Surly, Zipp, Corima - This is the ISO standard.
33.0 mm × 1 Mavic
There
I do not know where to buy 12 tooth 33.5 X 24 TPI lockrings. A good machine shop can re-thread an ISO lockring to the bigger 33.5 x 24. TiCycles has done it twice for me and the re-threaded rings work beautifully, but they cut the threads on a lathe and not with a die. Between that and the very hard metal of the 12 tooth lockrings I have found, the machining was not cheap.
I learned all this dialing in my road fix gear to ride in the mountains. I use a small 1/8" chainring in front and all the 1/8" cogs I've ever heard of. (So far, 24 to 12.) The bike has done the week of Cycle Oregon 5 times (and never seen a freewheel).
Ben
#5724
Lapped 3x
Why not have the Miche lockrings turned down to a smaller diameter? How much material would need to be removed? Also, it's much less hassle, and mechanically more efficient to ride with bigger ring/cog combos. The only reason 12t cogs came into existence was that you couldn't get an track ring bigger than 54t until maybe 10 years ago. Prior to that, it was an expensive custom endeavor to acquire said rings.
#5725
Many years ago I used Renold bicycle chains. Searches for these chains came up blanc in later years. However I just stumbled on this Renold site:
https://velo.renold.com/
Cost 250 pounds UK per chain
Has anybody used these chains and if so what are your opinions?
https://velo.renold.com/
Cost 250 pounds UK per chain
Has anybody used these chains and if so what are your opinions?