Rivendell to discontinue the Atlantis?
#51
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Hey Suzie, I just responded to another jackash that had to throw in a Bush comment that he obviously knew very little about; so I helped him with his education, which is different then a political debate. Just ask any school teacher or professor what their doing when they do the same thing to our kids...their teaching not debating or having any agenda to indoctrinate our children with....right?
#52
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I made everything on it except the tires,heads/barrels,brake calipers.
This is what I do,I've worked at/owned an automotive machine shop for the last 40 years.
As far design goes,remember seeing those monkeys that coax you up to the cage at the zoo and then throw their crap at you? They ALL work for ME now!
That's enough of this,it is a bicycle site....
This is what I do,I've worked at/owned an automotive machine shop for the last 40 years.
As far design goes,remember seeing those monkeys that coax you up to the cage at the zoo and then throw their crap at you? They ALL work for ME now!
That's enough of this,it is a bicycle site....
Last edited by Booger1; 10-05-08 at 10:04 PM.
#54
Riv is not killing the Atlantis, though they are killing the Bleriot. The Atlantis is their best-seller.
According to GP, the Bleriot was inappropriately marketed as "if you can't afford a Riv, get a Bleriot", which he felt was unfair.
Apparently, there is going to be an expansion of the Taiwanese bike range. The "Sam Hill" is one of them and probably a Quickbeam-esque model as well. Made in Taiwan, paint not as fancy, should keep the price down.
According to GP, the Bleriot was inappropriately marketed as "if you can't afford a Riv, get a Bleriot", which he felt was unfair.
Apparently, there is going to be an expansion of the Taiwanese bike range. The "Sam Hill" is one of them and probably a Quickbeam-esque model as well. Made in Taiwan, paint not as fancy, should keep the price down.
#55
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the effin' problem with the bleaugheriot was it was 650b!!!!!
does someone have a link to 'sam hill' industry buzz or reports?
does someone have a link to 'sam hill' industry buzz or reports?
#56
The 650B probably did have something to do with it, but I think it was due to a a number of other factors as well, such as the lack of downtube shifter bosses and the requirement of hard-to-find long-reach or centerpull brakes, in addition to its (arguably) unwarranted reputation as the Rivendell for people who can't afford one but want one anyway.
On an aside, I think Riv may be going in the wrong direction with their product development with their bizarre specializations, most notably the idea that you need 650B wheels if you're less than 6'0" tall. I'm 5'8" all my bikes have 700c wheels. (53cm frames) They handle just fine and don't look like they're absurdly proportioned. The days of buying a Rivendell All-Rounder and bolting whatever you had on-hand to it are over. Now you have to buy everything via the Riv Reader.
(I'm dramatically over-generalizing here.)
650B is a great option, but I miss the Rambo and Rom. Where is the Riv that follows normal, if somewhat relaxed, road geometry and uses parts that are readily available at any hole-in-the-wall bike shop?
On an aside, I think Riv may be going in the wrong direction with their product development with their bizarre specializations, most notably the idea that you need 650B wheels if you're less than 6'0" tall. I'm 5'8" all my bikes have 700c wheels. (53cm frames) They handle just fine and don't look like they're absurdly proportioned. The days of buying a Rivendell All-Rounder and bolting whatever you had on-hand to it are over. Now you have to buy everything via the Riv Reader.
(I'm dramatically over-generalizing here.)
650B is a great option, but I miss the Rambo and Rom. Where is the Riv that follows normal, if somewhat relaxed, road geometry and uses parts that are readily available at any hole-in-the-wall bike shop?
#57
Senior Member
The 650B probably did have something to do with it, but I think it was due to a a number of other factors as well, such as the lack of downtube shifter bosses and the requirement of hard-to-find long-reach or centerpull brakes, in addition to its (arguably) unwarranted reputation as the Rivendell for people who can't afford one but want one anyway.
On an aside, I think Riv may be going in the wrong direction with their product development with their bizarre specializations, most notably the idea that you need 650B wheels if you're less than 6'0" tall. I'm 5'8" all my bikes have 700c wheels. (53cm frames) They handle just fine and don't look like they're absurdly proportioned. The days of buying a Rivendell All-Rounder and bolting whatever you had on-hand to it are over. Now you have to buy everything via the Riv Reader.
(I'm dramatically over-generalizing here.)
650B is a great option, but I miss the Rambo and Rom. Where is the Riv that follows normal, if somewhat relaxed, road geometry and uses parts that are readily available at any hole-in-the-wall bike shop?
On an aside, I think Riv may be going in the wrong direction with their product development with their bizarre specializations, most notably the idea that you need 650B wheels if you're less than 6'0" tall. I'm 5'8" all my bikes have 700c wheels. (53cm frames) They handle just fine and don't look like they're absurdly proportioned. The days of buying a Rivendell All-Rounder and bolting whatever you had on-hand to it are over. Now you have to buy everything via the Riv Reader.
(I'm dramatically over-generalizing here.)
650B is a great option, but I miss the Rambo and Rom. Where is the Riv that follows normal, if somewhat relaxed, road geometry and uses parts that are readily available at any hole-in-the-wall bike shop?
#58
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Get ready Atlantis fans, here it comes.....https://www.rivbike.com//#product=50-685
Last edited by metal_cowboy; 11-19-08 at 07:25 PM.
#59
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So let me get this straight: Some people like some type of bikes. Other people like other types of bikes. Some people don't understand other people's affection for their type of bike. And vice versa. Finally, some people wish high quality bikes were sold really cheaply. Does that cover it?
This reminds me of the Porsche versus Corvette arguments. They both do the same thing in different ways at different prices.
#60
Well, those were entirely predictable. Bleriot II and Mixte Lite.
I'm sure no one notices or cares that the Bleriot II, I mean Sam Hillborne, has compact geometry. I'll go back and see if I can find the article where Grant rails against compact geometry. The same company in Taiwan that made the Bleriot (Maxway) is making this. Near as I can ascertain, this is the Bleriot Compact so fewer sizes need to be produced. Hopefully a brand re-boot will keep this from being treated as the 'budget Riv'.
The Mixte Lite, er Betty Foy, is probably a better idea, since the Wilbury and Glorious are astoundingly expensive for something that isn't custom steel, Italian steel, or custom Italian steel...or carbon fiber.
Generally, color me unimpressed.
Next up are the Simpleton (singlespeed) and Buffalo (Sugarfree Atlantis).
I'm sure no one notices or cares that the Bleriot II, I mean Sam Hillborne, has compact geometry. I'll go back and see if I can find the article where Grant rails against compact geometry. The same company in Taiwan that made the Bleriot (Maxway) is making this. Near as I can ascertain, this is the Bleriot Compact so fewer sizes need to be produced. Hopefully a brand re-boot will keep this from being treated as the 'budget Riv'.
The Mixte Lite, er Betty Foy, is probably a better idea, since the Wilbury and Glorious are astoundingly expensive for something that isn't custom steel, Italian steel, or custom Italian steel...or carbon fiber.
Generally, color me unimpressed.
Next up are the Simpleton (singlespeed) and Buffalo (Sugarfree Atlantis).
#61
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I've given up trying to understand Rivendell. I should be their ideal customer -- I like steel frames, slack frame angles, practical bikes. Yet they quit making their most popular frame (Rambouillet) after doubling the price over a 3-year period. Then they bring out a very capable replacement, the Bleriot, that only works with wheels and tires that you can't buy anywhere. Rivendell is obviously not trying to make much money. I probably would own a Rambouillet right now if it wasn't for their crazy marketing. I tried to buy one about 5 years ago but they had none in stock with a 6-month wait. So I bought another frame. When I was in the market again a few years later, they had quit producing them. Now, you see people selling used Rambos on eBay for more than they paid for them.
#63
Isn't that what GP was railing about when he was at B'Stone? No one was making a 'normal' bike? It was either racebikes, which are impractical in any situation where seconds don't count; moutain bikes, which are impractical in any situation where the road is paved; or 'city' bikes, which offend the tastes of the gentleman cyclist.
The people wanted a normal road bike, with normal angles, normal parts sizes, fender and rack mounting capacity, and built in the old style to modern manufacturing standards. That was the Rambo.
Apparently, GP has decided that the people want to be forced to use brakes that aren't made anymore on a tire size that hasn't ever been supported in an English-speaking country.
Check out the curly lugs! Dig that crazy name we gave it! A Taiwanese factory is as good as a Japanese workshop!
The people wanted a normal road bike, with normal angles, normal parts sizes, fender and rack mounting capacity, and built in the old style to modern manufacturing standards. That was the Rambo.
Apparently, GP has decided that the people want to be forced to use brakes that aren't made anymore on a tire size that hasn't ever been supported in an English-speaking country.
Check out the curly lugs! Dig that crazy name we gave it! A Taiwanese factory is as good as a Japanese workshop!
#64
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I love all the Bleriot/650b haters on here (and elsewhere)....
It's like someone who really says they hate sushi, but have never tried it....
I have a Bleriot and while I had mine built up by Riv, I had no problem going on the net and finding any parts I needed to build my own. The Bleriot is not the only bike to use long reach brakes and Riv is not the only company to make a 650b bike (Kogswell?) As far as wheels and tires... How often do you really need a new set of wheels? I can get any category of tire I want (fast rolling or 40mm dirt tire) for my 650b. You can use 26" tubes that you can get anywhere... How often have you had to buy a new tire while touring (cross country excepted)? If you carry one kevlar beaded tire in your stuff, I'm guessing you'd be good. Would a 700cc bike do just as well as my Bleriot? I'm sure it would, but then again I'm not one to run with the lemmings and buy something just because everyone else is...
Long live Rivendell!
BTW- If you don't want to buy a currant Riv....why do you care that Grant Peterson has weird ideas? Obviously, there are other bikes that fit your needs....I just don't understand why people love to rail against a guy that does his own thing. Afterall, he's the one taking the chance of alienating people and going out of business...
It's like someone who really says they hate sushi, but have never tried it....
I have a Bleriot and while I had mine built up by Riv, I had no problem going on the net and finding any parts I needed to build my own. The Bleriot is not the only bike to use long reach brakes and Riv is not the only company to make a 650b bike (Kogswell?) As far as wheels and tires... How often do you really need a new set of wheels? I can get any category of tire I want (fast rolling or 40mm dirt tire) for my 650b. You can use 26" tubes that you can get anywhere... How often have you had to buy a new tire while touring (cross country excepted)? If you carry one kevlar beaded tire in your stuff, I'm guessing you'd be good. Would a 700cc bike do just as well as my Bleriot? I'm sure it would, but then again I'm not one to run with the lemmings and buy something just because everyone else is...
Long live Rivendell!
BTW- If you don't want to buy a currant Riv....why do you care that Grant Peterson has weird ideas? Obviously, there are other bikes that fit your needs....I just don't understand why people love to rail against a guy that does his own thing. Afterall, he's the one taking the chance of alienating people and going out of business...
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Last edited by threeflys; 12-11-08 at 11:10 AM.
#65
The Bleriot is a fine bike. In fact, I used to own one. It looked identical to yours (except no Brooks saddle; for the life of me, I cannot get comfortable on them.)
I sold it because of the very situation you pointed out. I was in the middle of Maine, I was lucky enough to find a bike shop, and the shop owner was courteous enough to offer to order some 650B tires for me and they'd be in the store in a few business days. I guess had I been a lemming with 700c wheels I would have been able to replace my tire quickly and cheaply and then could have ridden off a cliff with the rest of the lemmings.
Please don't consider me a hater. You can question something without hating on it. (at least in real life you can. I suppose on the interwebs any criticism at all is a flame.)
650B has it's place, probably.
My question is, "Why or how did Grant decide that anyone less than 5'10" must not ride a 700c wheel?" No Rivendell can be had now for riders under 5'10" that doesn't have 26" (the Atlantis) or 650B (everything else.)
It doesn't make sense.
What was so wrong about the Rambouillet that Grant (a businessman) would feel the need to kill off his best-selling model to be replaced with two models? That doesn't make business sense.
I like the Rivendell ideals and I want to buy one, but I think one of the core ideals, "well-made bikes that are normal, easy to work on, easy to replace parts for and that aren't so specialized as to be useless" is being a little muddled.
I sold it because of the very situation you pointed out. I was in the middle of Maine, I was lucky enough to find a bike shop, and the shop owner was courteous enough to offer to order some 650B tires for me and they'd be in the store in a few business days. I guess had I been a lemming with 700c wheels I would have been able to replace my tire quickly and cheaply and then could have ridden off a cliff with the rest of the lemmings.
Please don't consider me a hater. You can question something without hating on it. (at least in real life you can. I suppose on the interwebs any criticism at all is a flame.)
650B has it's place, probably.
My question is, "Why or how did Grant decide that anyone less than 5'10" must not ride a 700c wheel?" No Rivendell can be had now for riders under 5'10" that doesn't have 26" (the Atlantis) or 650B (everything else.)
It doesn't make sense.
What was so wrong about the Rambouillet that Grant (a businessman) would feel the need to kill off his best-selling model to be replaced with two models? That doesn't make business sense.
I like the Rivendell ideals and I want to buy one, but I think one of the core ideals, "well-made bikes that are normal, easy to work on, easy to replace parts for and that aren't so specialized as to be useless" is being a little muddled.
#66
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I really wasn't meaning to point at you particularly...just when I was researching the Bleriot, I ran into a lot of this.
As far as 650b for anyone under 5'10"...From what I can tell, Grant thinks it's a matter of asthetics mostly. That is cetainly a matter of opnion and since Grant makes the bikes, I guess he can make that decision...
As far as why kill the Ram...well, I've read that Grant jumps from one idea to another to another, and when he gets a new hair he often abandons previous ideas.
I'll have to say concerning the idea that any bike not made in the US is inferior somehow.... I was at interbike this fall and saw a LOT of beautiful bikes. I would put money up that anyone saying the high dollar Asian bikes are less of a bike couldn't tell the difference between a Toyo (or other) and a Vanilla (or other) if there were no distinguishing decals or dropouts, etc... Now, they may ride different, I have no idea but as far as seeing with the naked eye...
As far as 650b for anyone under 5'10"...From what I can tell, Grant thinks it's a matter of asthetics mostly. That is cetainly a matter of opnion and since Grant makes the bikes, I guess he can make that decision...
As far as why kill the Ram...well, I've read that Grant jumps from one idea to another to another, and when he gets a new hair he often abandons previous ideas.
I'll have to say concerning the idea that any bike not made in the US is inferior somehow.... I was at interbike this fall and saw a LOT of beautiful bikes. I would put money up that anyone saying the high dollar Asian bikes are less of a bike couldn't tell the difference between a Toyo (or other) and a Vanilla (or other) if there were no distinguishing decals or dropouts, etc... Now, they may ride different, I have no idea but as far as seeing with the naked eye...
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#67
It might be a design decision regarding clearances. On my 58" atlantis I have 700c schwalbe big apple 50mm tires and fenders, and i gotta be careful with toestrike on the front wheel on tight turns. As you can see in my picture above, there isn't much room between the fender and the down tube. And this is on a 58"!!!
I can't imagine a smaller frame with the same geometry being able to handle beefy 700c tires and fenders.
I can't imagine a smaller frame with the same geometry being able to handle beefy 700c tires and fenders.
#68
Senior Member
To the guy who said you can't get 650b wheels anywhere. You can get them everywhere.
To the guy who had a flat in Maine... I live in Maine. The wife rides a Bleriot.
I debated between the two options when we went on tour, and decided to take a spare tire with us.
We didn't need it.
The other option is Fedex. Ever hear of it?
Somebody put this thread out of my misery.
To the guy who had a flat in Maine... I live in Maine. The wife rides a Bleriot.
I debated between the two options when we went on tour, and decided to take a spare tire with us.
We didn't need it.
The other option is Fedex. Ever hear of it?
Somebody put this thread out of my misery.
#70
Senior Member
That Bleriot is stunning - it does appear quite graceful and well-proportioned with the 650B wheels.
#71
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#72
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confreriedes650
650b began in France and has been reborn due to organizations like the Confrerie. More info and links on my website.
650b began in France and has been reborn due to organizations like the Confrerie. More info and links on my website.
Last edited by Randochap; 12-12-08 at 01:21 AM.
#73
Banned
Did you actually look at that site? They state that most 650b tire are produced for the US market. Just because there is an enthusiast website doesn't mean that the tires are actually widely available. I kust searched four of the biggest European online bike shops and none had 650b tires. I did find a whopping TWO tires in the UK, one NOS for $65 a tire.......
Take a look at the site you linked to..... https://www.confreriedes650.org/eng-tires.php
Take a look at the site you linked to..... https://www.confreriedes650.org/eng-tires.php
#75
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Any bike shop that deals with QBP (most) can get you a 650b wheel/tire as well as Velo-Orange, Riv Bikes, and a few others. While I concede that you can't walk in most shops and buy a 650b tire off the shelf (again 26" tubes work fine), you can get them pretty quick by mail. As far as it being an inconvienence...how many people only have one bike to ride if they blow thier 650b tire? As far as on a tour, a folded kevlar beaded tire doesn't take much room....
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