Training Status??? (III)
04-09-15, 09:26 AM
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Morning group ride. Didn't get much sleep due to racing last night, but legs felt good. However, the shop put on new pads when they did the tune up/cleaning and they were squealing like crazy. It was pretty embarrassing!
04-09-15, 09:48 AM
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Don't want to be spammy but may be somebody would help me with this: https://www.bikeforums.net/training-n...intervals.html
and btw - I am kinda struggling with my progress
Anybody know any forums/skype groups or smth like that where ppl who better understanding in training planning chat? ty
and btw - I am kinda struggling with my progress
Anybody know any forums/skype groups or smth like that where ppl who better understanding in training planning chat? ty
04-09-15, 10:09 AM
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Read through the recipe thread, and the power meter thread. If you want to get better at longer intervals, you're going to have to train longer intervals and possibly fill in some base type mileage if you can't seem to complete longer workouts.
04-09-15, 10:16 AM
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Word. 3x15s if you can stomach it, or 2x20s progressing to 3x20s when you can stomach that.
04-09-15, 10:20 AM
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Mark Cavendish Interview: Obsessive compulsive marauder - Cycling Weekly
“You’d be surprised at my watts,” Cavendish says.
“Most people who say that their maximum is 1,600 watts won’t put out 1,600. My maximum is 1,580, and that is a lot. Not many guys will do more than a hundred more than that. But no one will ever get close to that in a race after 200 kilometres,” he continues.
“I put out 1,490 today in training, on bad form, but I won’t put that out in a race. It’s not watts, and it’s not just my frontal area in a sprint. It’s everything beforehand. How I ride in the peloton. My pedalling action. How I sit. I save so much energy for the finish.”
“Most people who say that their maximum is 1,600 watts won’t put out 1,600. My maximum is 1,580, and that is a lot. Not many guys will do more than a hundred more than that. But no one will ever get close to that in a race after 200 kilometres,” he continues.
“I put out 1,490 today in training, on bad form, but I won’t put that out in a race. It’s not watts, and it’s not just my frontal area in a sprint. It’s everything beforehand. How I ride in the peloton. My pedalling action. How I sit. I save so much energy for the finish.”
04-09-15, 12:17 PM
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A coach I was working with noticed I had good 1 and 5 min. power but I couldn't use it because I'd run out of gas around 45 min. and be dropped. He put me on a steady diet of 2x20's plus a long tempo ride on Saturday. Really boosted my endurance and once that foundation was laid, we started working on snap.
04-09-15, 01:56 PM
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Thank you guys for good words. Regarding effort: how hard 2x20 to 3x20s should be? 95% of my 20 min peak (248*0.95=235) or like 90% of my 8 minute best (320*0.9=288)? Or it should be more all out efforts (as much I can do for 20 min)? I found similar thread on cyclingforums https://www.cyclingforums.com/topic/4...-vs-20m-power/ - what that guys said legit?
04-09-15, 02:08 PM
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They should be done at threshold. How you arrive at FTP varies. If you use a 20 minute test, which is pretty much a paced 20 minute interval as hard as you can go, you use 95% of the average, not the peak. Get the book. Read it through. Training and racing with a power meter.
04-09-15, 02:08 PM
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Thank you guys for good words. Regarding effort: how hard 2x20 to 3x20s should be? 95% of my 20 min peak (248*0.95=235) or like 90% of my 8 minute best (320*0.9=288)? Or it should be more all out efforts (as much I can do for 20 min)? I found similar thread on cyclingforums 5m vs 20m power - Power Training - Cycling Forums - what that guys said legit?
04-09-15, 03:03 PM
Ninny
A couple hours very easy. I never really do recovery rides, I forget how awesome it feels to roll along in real Z1. Plus, when you go super slow, you can look at stuff while riding. Today I saw some very cute baby foxes hanging out by a barn.
04-09-15, 03:18 PM
**** that
I thought that was cat 3's on the east coast??
04-09-15, 03:35 PM
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I'm guessing my frontal area is similar to Cav's.
I wondered about the fact that my sprint is so much worse in a race than in training. My max in training is 1550w, give or take, but in races I normally don't break 1300w. And I'm doing 1 hour crits where I'm averaging 170-180w. I can't imagine doing a massive sprint at the end of a 200km day where the last hour is done at 50 kph. Because I can't do even two of those three things (50kph for an hour, massive sprint at end of long day, 200km ride).
My max sprints did happen at the end of long days, about 5 hours each, but those rides were with more entry level riders so we were doing 10 mph for most of the ride. Then at the end of the 50-60 miles (aka 5-6 hours) I excused myself to do some massive efforts. So although they were at the end of long in time rides, they weren't at the end of long in distance rides. I was super fresh, relatively speaking.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
04-09-15, 03:36 PM
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__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
04-09-15, 03:36 PM
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I thought that was your house. Even better that it was on a ride.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
04-09-15, 03:49 PM
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Awesome.
I'm guessing my frontal area is similar to Cav's.
I wondered about the fact that my sprint is so much worse in a race than in training. My max in training is 1550w, give or take, but in races I normally don't break 1300w. And I'm doing 1 hour crits where I'm averaging 170-180w. I can't imagine doing a massive sprint at the end of a 200km day where the last hour is done at 50 kph. Because I can't do even two of those three things (50kph for an hour, massive sprint at end of long day, 200km ride).
My max sprints did happen at the end of long days, about 5 hours each, but those rides were with more entry level riders so we were doing 10 mph for most of the ride. Then at the end of the 50-60 miles (aka 5-6 hours) I excused myself to do some massive efforts. So although they were at the end of long in time rides, they weren't at the end of long in distance rides. I was super fresh, relatively speaking.
I'm guessing my frontal area is similar to Cav's.
I wondered about the fact that my sprint is so much worse in a race than in training. My max in training is 1550w, give or take, but in races I normally don't break 1300w. And I'm doing 1 hour crits where I'm averaging 170-180w. I can't imagine doing a massive sprint at the end of a 200km day where the last hour is done at 50 kph. Because I can't do even two of those three things (50kph for an hour, massive sprint at end of long day, 200km ride).
My max sprints did happen at the end of long days, about 5 hours each, but those rides were with more entry level riders so we were doing 10 mph for most of the ride. Then at the end of the 50-60 miles (aka 5-6 hours) I excused myself to do some massive efforts. So although they were at the end of long in time rides, they weren't at the end of long in distance rides. I was super fresh, relatively speaking.
Anyway, cav speaks with wisdom.
04-09-15, 05:04 PM
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- One was at the end of a 160k race. It wasn't particularly hard, but I'd been in a ~8 man break for ~80k just rolling around at ~Z3 I suppose.
- One was at the end of an 80k race from a break of 3. That one was very hard: 2 hours at slightly under threshhold
- The last time was at the start of the third rep of 30s on, 3 minutes off x 15 intervals.
04-09-15, 05:17 PM
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Awesome.
I'm guessing my frontal area is similar to Cav's.
I wondered about the fact that my sprint is so much worse in a race than in training. My max in training is 1550w, give or take, but in races I normally don't break 1300w. And I'm doing 1 hour crits where I'm averaging 170-180w. I can't imagine doing a massive sprint at the end of a 200km day where the last hour is done at 50 kph. Because I can't do even two of those three things (50kph for an hour, massive sprint at end of long day, 200km ride).
My max sprints did happen at the end of long days, about 5 hours each, but those rides were with more entry level riders so we were doing 10 mph for most of the ride. Then at the end of the 50-60 miles (aka 5-6 hours) I excused myself to do some massive efforts. So although they were at the end of long in time rides, they weren't at the end of long in distance rides. I was super fresh, relatively speaking.
I'm guessing my frontal area is similar to Cav's.
I wondered about the fact that my sprint is so much worse in a race than in training. My max in training is 1550w, give or take, but in races I normally don't break 1300w. And I'm doing 1 hour crits where I'm averaging 170-180w. I can't imagine doing a massive sprint at the end of a 200km day where the last hour is done at 50 kph. Because I can't do even two of those three things (50kph for an hour, massive sprint at end of long day, 200km ride).
My max sprints did happen at the end of long days, about 5 hours each, but those rides were with more entry level riders so we were doing 10 mph for most of the ride. Then at the end of the 50-60 miles (aka 5-6 hours) I excused myself to do some massive efforts. So although they were at the end of long in time rides, they weren't at the end of long in distance rides. I was super fresh, relatively speaking.
04-09-15, 05:38 PM
Senior Member
In races I'm usually so tweaked I have a hard time doing a good sprint. My HR might be 160-170; by 170 I have zero sprint.
There's that too, of course. Haha.
I'm in a Zwift group on FB and I posted something about my numbers being off. Someone questioned how I could have a 210w FTP and 1100w max (on the trainer so artificially capped). Interestingly enough on the trainer I seem to be able to hold 1100w for 10s pretty regularly, in real power but on the trainer. My best ever sprints outside were 18-19s sustaining 1100w so I must be pretty close. In Zwift power it's about 150-200w short, based on their algorithm for my trainer.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
04-10-15, 07:39 AM
Senior Member
So I've been doing structured training now for 4 weeks. I can see some improvement, measurable, significant. One huge thing I noticed was that at a given pace (240w, give or take) I can hold it for 6 minutes without going into fast breathing. Before I was panting desperately in the last minute or two, trying to finish the efforts. Now I can still do a "1 out, 2 in" rhythm all the way to the end.
So this means that, yes, I may be doing some intervals in the future. These are mid-upper range of Z5 for me (217-248w Z5, typically averaging 235-245w).
Also yesterday I was on the drops for most of my efforts (and even the Cane Creeks in their ridiculously low position). I found that when I sit back on the saddle I struggle a bit, when I move forward things seem much better. When I say "forward" I mean I'm jamming myself against the front of the nose of the saddle (I'm not on the saddle - I'm literally bracing myself against the front of the nose), so it's really forward, esp considering I already have a steep STA and the saddle all the way forward. I may try the Tares (short version of Antares) saddle that I bought in 2010 or so. I might be able to move the saddle forward 1-2 cm, although I have vague memories of losing all sorts of sustainable power when I've done that before. Aerodynamically I should improve. This will be an experiment for after the Series.
So this means that, yes, I may be doing some intervals in the future. These are mid-upper range of Z5 for me (217-248w Z5, typically averaging 235-245w).
Also yesterday I was on the drops for most of my efforts (and even the Cane Creeks in their ridiculously low position). I found that when I sit back on the saddle I struggle a bit, when I move forward things seem much better. When I say "forward" I mean I'm jamming myself against the front of the nose of the saddle (I'm not on the saddle - I'm literally bracing myself against the front of the nose), so it's really forward, esp considering I already have a steep STA and the saddle all the way forward. I may try the Tares (short version of Antares) saddle that I bought in 2010 or so. I might be able to move the saddle forward 1-2 cm, although I have vague memories of losing all sorts of sustainable power when I've done that before. Aerodynamically I should improve. This will be an experiment for after the Series.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
04-10-15, 08:02 AM
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+1.
Ahh yes, soon you'll be riding a 130mm stem and have your saddle slammed all the way forward and we can be the two founding members of the Knees Over Headset Club.
Also yesterday I was on the drops for most of my efforts (and even the Cane Creeks in their ridiculously low position). I found that when I sit back on the saddle I struggle a bit, when I move forward things seem much better. When I say "forward" I mean I'm jamming myself against the front of the nose of the saddle (I'm not on the saddle - I'm literally bracing myself against the front of the nose), so it's really forward, esp considering I already have a steep STA and the saddle all the way forward.
04-10-15, 08:10 AM
Ninny
