wahoonc

Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Also I have found some sites to be multi level subcontractors. I called in one the other day that was not signed correctly and was an accident waiting to happen...between the time I called and went back through an accident with injuries happened and tied traffic up even worse...on both sides of the road.

Aaron

JohnBrooking

I appreciate it if the flagger is concerned with my safety, but I don't think that has any bearing on the question, which is on what authority is he or she giving me that direction. If it's just because they are concerned for my safety, then the answer is purely on their own authority, which answers my question.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a huge problem that I need to "defuse". Not a federal case. Bottom line, the flagger can't move from that spot, so what are they gonna do if I ride through? Just yell, is all. Maybe radio about me to someone further along in the zone, but that's never happened and it seems unlikely they would bother.

I'm really just curious on what authority they are telling me this, that's all.

Maybe one of these times I will stop and ask, in as friendly a way as possible. Usually, though, I'm on my way somewhere and don't have time to just stop and chat.

Ngchen

Well, something to keep in mind is that they can (not will) get you back in a variety of ways. Things such as (1) having his pals jam something into your spokes, (2) having someone beat you up, (3) calling the cops and saying you're creating a scene, and so on. No one likes to be disrespected, and not everyone is so kind when slighted. Authority or not, it's not wise to create/perpetuate a conflict when unnecessary.

noisebeam

I ride thru one lane barrier constricted constructions zones fairly regularly (but no flagger as they are not two way). These are always reduced to 25 or 35mph, sometimes they go on 1mi and, well, traffic behind me must go my speed.

The only flagger type encounter I had was when I was going to work on the freeway access road as normal. It was closed that day and a police officer was directing all traffic on to the limited access (bicycles prohibited) freeway. He pointed right at me and waved me to the on ramp (there was no other choice due to barriers). I entered the freeway, rode 1mi on the shoulder and exited at the next available exit and merged back on the access road. No big deal at all, just kinda interesting I was directed to do such.

Al

Linus_S

I have been waved through without problem on numerous occasions. I do find that there is lots of junk on the road. Be careful.
LPS

JohnBrooking

Update: I just got a callback from someone in my state's DOT, his title is Transportation Systems Manager. He said that normally there is no reason to send a bike to the sidewalk, and he agreed that bikes have the same right to use the road as a car. He did mention that there might be reasons to make such a policy on a site-by-site basis, such as a single narrow construction lane over a long bridge. But there's no general law or DOT policy about it, and yes, the flagger was probably just making his own decision with no guiding policy reason. When I asked if I was breaking the law by disobeying, his first response was "no, not at all", but then he did backtrack a bit and say he wasn't really sure what the legal situation was and he'd have to ask someone else about that, but I said that wasn't necessary.

So there's the Maine DOT's official position.

John E

Spot-on. The problem is analogous to a police officer unlawfully ordering a bicyclist onto the sidewalk, and the remedy is similar -- file a complaint somewhere up the chain of command.

The San Diego County Bicycle Coalition complained about a related problem -- during construction, a segment of El Camino Real was illegally posted "no bicycles." We got the sign removed, which is great, but now we would push for a "share the road" or "bicyclists entitled to full lane" sign.

joejack951

You have a very low opinion of people if this is a real concern of yours. A flagger at a construction site has little more authority than your average motorist on the road. Would you hop on the sidewalk because some random motorist told you to so?

mikepop

Anyone can do something to someone. But, in this case especially, they won't. So why worry about it?

mikepop

John, speaking locally, I have always been waved through by flaggers at various Maine construction sites so there's another reason not to worry about this guy's blanket assertion.

Is this the never-ending construction at 22/Spring?

joejack951

I've gone through various construction zones without incident. Sometimes other traffic has held me up, other times I've held them up. Such is life.

alhedges

This is wrong. It's wrong in Indiana, as I posted above, and it's even wrong in your state. From the Delaware code, Title 21:

In most places in the US, it is legal to ride bicycles on sidewalks. (Maybe not a good idea, but legal). See, e.g.,

The penalty - again, in DE because I had that open - is twice whatever the normal ticket is.

dedhed

Most states and municipalities are going to use the MUTCD from FHWA, especialy if any Federal monies are involved. The flagger may be the lowest paid but if it's federal funded they are still white sheet scale laborers getting Davis-Bacon prevailing wage.

https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/pdfs/2003r1r2/ch6a_e.pdf

Tude 

Doooood, I'm a girl on a mtb .... no problem, hehe.

But in reality - I ride like a vehicle - stop when they flag me and go when they tell me. When the construction seems to take forever, well then I get to know my construction peeps and now have the opportunity to say hello to all.

And when they've totally ruined a street, like take it down 4 foot due to laying new water lines, etc and hav to build access ways to adjoining streets etc - which means a huge expanse of rutty, rocky, yucky digs with the opportunities of jumping up to a 3-4 ft high "hill" so cars can get to their driveways and then a nice jump back down to the pits to ride again ----- <sigh> that's called fun. Signed an Urban Mountainbiker who has fun on their commute.

joejack951

What did you have happen? Someone ordered you onto a sidewalk, you refused, and received a ticket? I have my own issues with the DE police but this is a new one and something I hope you fought. I do not consider it lawful to be ordered onto the sidewalk for no reason, and I can almost guarantee that any police officer/flagger doing so would have no reason (other than some sort of misunderstanding of cyclists' rights) for doing so.

bkrownd

Keep in mind that not all construction sites are created equal, and not all vehicles are equal within them! Some sites are more dangerous for some kinds of vehicles than they are for other kinds of vehicles. For instance, my little Toyota was seriously fishtailing and hitting bottom in the large loose rocks that were laid down in a local construction site yesterday, whereas trucks with big tires had no problem with it. Somebody with a "lowered" ricer Honda would have sustained body damage in those rocks, and perhaps hung up entirely. A road bike would never have gotten through them.

AlmostTrick

Maybe, but that would never stop "Gurl with a Tude". I like that.

JohnBrooking

Hi, Mike! Are you the Westbrook Mike I just saw at the bike rally today?

Actually, that construction site has never been a problem. Last summer they even had that really friendly flagger who waved to everyone, including me. Still, I wish they would hurry up and finish it!

The most recent happening was one of the streets heading down off the west end of the peninsula to Park Street, and the zone was only a short block long! It was Earth Day and I was towing my heavy trailer, so there's no way I'm bumping over the sidewalk with it to go past three buildings. (Knowing this city, there probably wasn't even a curb cut!)

Last year it happened once at the construction at USM on Bedford Street, and also once I think on Western Ave. in South Portland near the airport.

I think next time I will actually stop and attempt to strike up a friendly conversation, if I have the time.

ztmlgr

I know this is an old thread but a local issue caused me to do some research and this is what popped up. Yes, I know I have way to much free time on my hands.

Here in my neighborhood in northern California, there's a popular bike route (Pinehurst) on which the county is doing some road work. They have posted "road closed" signs, it's a 24/7 closure, and during construction hours there is usually a "guard" (not a cop but just one of the work crew) posted right before the construction site who is there to dissuade any cyclist who might attempt to get around the work area. However, once the crew leaves, they leave the barricades up and still restrict vehicular traffic but make the road passable for emergency vehicles by putting steel plates over the trenches and keeping one lane passable. During the weekend and after the work crew leaves for the day, many cyclists, including myself, are taking advantage of a no-car route and ignoring the road closed signs. I wanted to prepare in case any law enforcement officers decided to show up and bark orders telling me that the road is closed and to get the heck off the road or even attempt to cite me for violating a section of the CVC. From what I can tell, section 21367 is the only section in the code that deals with road closures. It reads:

California Vehicle Code 21367 – (a) As provided in Section 125 of the Streets and Highways Code …

Current as of: 2020 | Check for updates | Other versions(a) As provided in Section 125 of the Streets and Highways Code and in Section 21100 of this code, respectively, the duly authorized representative of the Department of Transportation or local authorities, with respect to highways under their respective jurisdictions, including, but not limited to, persons contracting to perform construction, maintenance, or repair of a highway, may, with the approval of the department or local authority, as the case may be, and while engaged in the performance of that work, restrict the use of, and regulate the movement of traffic through or around, the affected area whenever the traffic would endanger the safety of workers or the work would interfere with or endanger the movement of traffic through the area. Traffic may be regulated by warning signs, lights, appropriate control devices, or by a person or persons controlling and directing the flow of traffic.

(b) It is unlawful to disobey the instructions of a person controlling and directing traffic pursuant to subdivision (a).
(c) It is unlawful to fail to comply with the directions of warning signs, lights, or other control devices provided for the regulation of traffic pursuant to subdivision (a).

The phrase that caught my attention was "while engaged in the performance of that work," in section (a). I understand you could be subject to citation if you ignored the "guard" at the barricade, or even just went around the barricade while the crew is doing their job and I would not do that nor have I seen anyone else do that. However, in the absence of any work being done, it appears there is no violation as to section (b) or (c) because they both refer to section (a) which stipulates that it applies only when the workers are "engaged in the performance of that work". So my take is that riding a bike on that closed section of the road is not subject to citation when the work crew are not there because there is no section in the CVC that would apply.

What say ye, oh internet legal scholars? Am I missing something?

work4bike

I've never had a problem going thru construction zones, but I do stay away from ones that are obviously dangerous or where I would be in the way.

In 1993 I did a 1,500-mile loaded bike tour around the East coast and thru the Appalachian mountains. When we got to the Jamestown/Williamsburg/Yorktown area the Colonial Parkway was closed, it had such a large barricade that we had to get off our bikes to get around it. I don't remember how far we rode on it, but I do remember passing numerous construction workers giving us weird looks

cb400bill

"while engaged in the performance of that work," could also be interpreted as the timeframe for the duration of the project.

indyfabz

Must be a long project judging by the date of the OP.

cb400bill

Budget issues

ztmlgr

After rereading the code sections a few times, I think you are right. The code section appears to give legal authority to the contractors/workers to "restrict the use of, and regulate the movement of traffic through or around" the construction zone, something that would normally only be allowed by law enforcement. The "while engaged in the performance of that work" may be just a legal phrase inserted so that contractors/workers don't get the idea that they can restrict traffic flow whenever they feel like it, i.e., even when there are no projects going on. If they were allowed to post "road closed" signs only when they were onsite, they would have to take them all down when they went home for the day and that doesn't make any sense.

So I guess my legal argument (that I cannot be cited for riding a bike on a closed road because there is no work crew on site at the time) doesn't hold water.

My second defense might be to challenge the code section that says they can close the road "whenever the traffic would endanger the safety of workers or the work would interfere with or endanger the movement of traffic through the area".. One could argue that if there are no workers, then they cannot be endangered by traffic. Further, if they cover the trenches with steel plates and leave at least one lane open, then the movement of traffic through the area would not be endangered. Yes, that would be true if ONLY BICYCLES were allowed through the area. But if ALL TRAFFIC were allowed, and the road narrowed to one lane at times, then it would be a danger to cars unless there were some traffic controls or a flagger onsite 24/7 to direct traffic around the 1-lane section.

So I guess that argument is shot down as well. Good thing I never went into the legal profession. In the unlikely event that a cop shows up while I am riding on the closed road section and I get pulled over, I will just have to offer my most sincere apology, leave the area immediately, and promise never to do it again. It appears that all cyclists riding on that closed section are clearly in violation of CVC 21367(c) and subject to citation.

work4bike

I did a long ride yesterday and was on a road I never rode before and much of it was closed off due to construction, so of course I was thinking of this thread

At one point I was leapfrogging a JSO deputy who was in the more congested traffic, due to the closed off lanes as I kept passing him/her in the construction zone, which probably was about 2-miles in length. No problems.

I don't know if it's legal or not, but most of us look at the law in the spirit of the intention, even cops, besides if I did ride with traffic in this section, I would had slowed them down as they attempted to pass me in very constricted lanes.