Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Steel faster than carbon?

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Steel faster than carbon?

Old 10-26-22, 07:34 AM
  #51  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,224
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2900 Post(s)
Liked 2,123 Times in 1,304 Posts
Originally Posted by GhostRider62
One needs a planing steel bike with super supple tires. Such bikes climb by themselves and when combined with fenders and a suitcase on the front, they fly.
This one certainly could:

seypat is offline  
Likes For seypat:
Old 10-26-22, 07:43 AM
  #52  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,392

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8062 Post(s)
Liked 8,869 Times in 4,938 Posts
Originally Posted by amazinmets73
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CHk54Mm5P_7vbzbhoHoZ_SjcGgICNWXL8ZewfITtpdo/mobilebasic

Any insight into what caused this?

You understand why the best experiments are double blinded?

I understand why you can't blind this experiment, but this is a single guy riding his own bike that he's used for 20 years vs. one he's never ridden before. Given that this is really a test in how well he's pedaling/piloting the two bikes, there's really no control whatsoever for tester bias. Indeed, it's the extreme case the other way. I don't think it's an accident that he's been riding this particular bike for 20 years, it's likely a function of his attitudes towards the two materials. There's probably any number of ways his bias may subconsciously affect how he's handling the bikes.

Truly a pointless exercise.
livedarklions is online now  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 10-26-22, 07:47 AM
  #53  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,392

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8062 Post(s)
Liked 8,869 Times in 4,938 Posts
Originally Posted by amazinmets73
I've always wanted to see the results of, say an 18lbs steel racing bike with modern components and rim brakes matched against a 17lbs carbon aero bike with discs. Same for a 10 year old top-of-the-line 16lbs rim brake carbon bike vs the latest disc brake carbon wonder bike. The fact that bike manufacturers are reluctant to conduct these tests caused me to suspect the results wouldn't be to the likings of their profit margins.

The modern bike industry is a scam so far as I'm concerned.
Originally Posted by amazinmets73
What's the deal with the unwarranted sarcasm? I'm merely curious as to the performance of bike frame materials. If the subject doesn't interest you, no problem, just move on...
You're just asking questions? Classic conspiracy theory nonsense rhetoric.

Sarcasm was well-earned.
livedarklions is online now  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 10-26-22, 07:55 AM
  #54  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 36,662
Mentioned: 206 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16916 Post(s)
Liked 12,420 Times in 5,883 Posts
Originally Posted by amazinmets73
The modern bike industry is a scam so far as I'm concerned.
Expect a knock at the door from Big Carbon. Things are not going to go well for you.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 10-26-22, 08:25 AM
  #55  
pdlamb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 8,288

Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2284 Post(s)
Liked 1,571 Times in 984 Posts
Originally Posted by GhostRider62
One needs a planing steel bike with super supple tires. Such bikes climb by themselves and when combined with fenders and a suitcase on the front, they fly.
But only if the crank and saddle were made in France?
pdlamb is offline  
Likes For pdlamb:
Old 10-26-22, 08:47 AM
  #56  
GhostRider62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 3,698
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2151 Post(s)
Liked 1,847 Times in 1,168 Posts
Originally Posted by pdlamb
But only if the crank and saddle were made in France?
That must be my problem on my steel bike. I have the $300 Hojo fenders and $100 tires. My crank is a shined up one from Japan, Sugino. I have an old Stronglight in the attic, I think that was made in France. I'm off to the races now, baby.
GhostRider62 is offline  
Old 10-26-22, 08:49 AM
  #57  
nomadmax 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 2,196
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1013 Post(s)
Liked 1,528 Times in 735 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz
But what is the best chain oil?
Awwwwww now ya did it ! The Lance reference didn't get it done but I am 100% this wil
__________________
nomadmax is offline  
Old 10-26-22, 09:40 AM
  #58  
Germany_chris
I知 a little Surly
 
Germany_chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern Germany
Posts: 2,250

Bikes: Two Cross Checks and a Karate Monkey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 609 Post(s)
Liked 1,135 Times in 577 Posts
Ok I値l add the final nail in the carbon v steel troll thread

What would Grant do?
Germany_chris is offline  
Likes For Germany_chris:
Old 10-26-22, 10:12 AM
  #59  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 15,561

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9947 Post(s)
Liked 6,323 Times in 3,613 Posts
Grant would build a bike with a bunch of components that are lower quality than what other comparable components cost, dress up in tweed full of seams, pack his hatchet and bar soap for an S24O, and then come back to the office and plead for people to buy giftcards so he can make it thru the lean times. All this would be done while apparently not recognizing much of what he 'curates' is why he is cash strapped.
mstateglfr is online now  
Likes For mstateglfr:
Old 10-26-22, 10:18 AM
  #60  
rsbob 
Grupetto Bob
 
rsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 4,291

Bikes: Bikey McBike Face

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1700 Post(s)
Liked 3,229 Times in 1,820 Posts
For a subject which has been beaten to death we are up to 59 posts. Obviously the beatings will continue!

The next HOT topic, is a bent faster than a diamond frame of any type, or is it the devil’s spawn? Stay tuned for more exciting threads.
__________________
Road and Mountain 🚴🏾‍♂️

Happily mediocre at a low skill activity







rsbob is offline  
Likes For rsbob:
Old 10-26-22, 10:20 AM
  #61  
badger1
Senior Member
 
badger1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 4,859
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1393 Post(s)
Liked 909 Times in 467 Posts
Originally Posted by Germany_chris
Ok I値l add the final nail in the carbon v steel troll thread

What would Grant do?
Just Ride.
badger1 is online now  
Old 10-26-22, 10:50 AM
  #62  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,392

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8062 Post(s)
Liked 8,869 Times in 4,938 Posts
Originally Posted by rsbob
For a subject which has been beaten to death we are up to 59 posts. Obviously the beatings will continue!

The next HOT topic, is a bent faster than a diamond frame of any type, or is it the devil痴 spawn? Stay tuned for more exciting threads.

Do you wave at dogs while riding?
livedarklions is online now  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 10-26-22, 11:01 AM
  #63  
rsbob 
Grupetto Bob
 
rsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 4,291

Bikes: Bikey McBike Face

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1700 Post(s)
Liked 3,229 Times in 1,820 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
Do you wave at dogs while riding?
Actually I stop quite often and talk to the owners and pet the dogs since you are so curious. Have met all sorts of wonderful people that way. Any other things I can fill you in on? (I am doing my very best to be courteous).
__________________
Road and Mountain 🚴🏾‍♂️

Happily mediocre at a low skill activity







rsbob is offline  
Old 10-26-22, 11:07 AM
  #64  
Broctoon
Super-duper Genius
 
Broctoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Muskrat Springs, Utah
Posts: 1,363
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 597 Post(s)
Liked 680 Times in 348 Posts
Carbon fiber construction of course makes it easy to shape a frame for better aero qualities. Otherwise, there is little difference between carbon and steel with regard to a bike's speed--maybe differences in ride quality can affect a rider's performance in small ways. Weight is certainly a factor, but its importance varies widely across scenarios, such as hilly vs. flat courses, rider's weight as percentage of rider + bike total, and other factors.


Even in a competitive time trial, where aerodynamics rule, I think this is the order of importance (for increasing speed):

1) Rider fitness/conditioning
2) Rider's position on the bike, which is largely a function of frame geometry and component design
3) Tire rolling resistance
4) Aero qualities of helmet, clothing, etc.
5) Aero qualities of wheels
6) Aero qualities of the frame itself

In other racing formats (drafting allowed), 1) is even more important relative to the others.

I'll accept anyone's challenges to the order I've assigned. I'm by no means an expert, just a careful observer. My point in all of this is that frame material choice can be an important consideration, but choosing carbon over steel is one of the least effective ways to increase your speed. Many riders will gain more by choosing the right handlebar, better tires, or even wearing a tight fitting jersey.
Broctoon is offline  
Likes For Broctoon:
Old 10-26-22, 11:10 AM
  #65  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,797

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 300 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24786 Post(s)
Liked 8,577 Times in 5,986 Posts
Originally Posted by nomadmax
Awwwwww now ya did it ! The Lance reference didn't get it done but I am 100% this wil
Originally Posted by Germany_chris
Ok I値l add the final nail in the carbon v steel troll thread

What would Grant do?

...I'm really surprised no one has brought up Superman yet. That guy was faster than a speeding bullet (multiple references here).
But you don't ever hear anyone calling him "The Man of Carbon Fiber", now do you ? It's always "The Man of Steel".

I shall now rest my argument, confident in victory.

__________________
3alarmer is offline  
Old 10-26-22, 11:11 AM
  #66  
Eric F 
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 5,501

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3352 Post(s)
Liked 5,358 Times in 2,529 Posts
Originally Posted by rsbob
Actually I stop quite often and talk to the owners and pet the dogs since you are so curious. Have met all sorts of wonderful people that way. Any other things I can fill you in on? (I am doing my very best to be courteous).
When passing dog-walkers while riding my MTB, I've found that complimenting the appearance of their dog tends to make people less irritated with my presence on the trail. "Cute pup! Have a nice day." said with a smile tends to be quite effective. Since my MTB is built from superextrafast carbon fiber, I have to say it very quickly.
__________________
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
Eric F is online now  
Old 10-26-22, 11:17 AM
  #67  
nomadmax 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 2,196
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1013 Post(s)
Liked 1,528 Times in 735 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...I'm really surprised no one has brought up Superman yet. That guy was faster than a speeding bullet (multiple references here).
But you don't ever hear anyone calling him "The Man of Carbon Fiber", now do you ? It's always "The Man of Steel".

I shall now rest my argument, confident in victory.

All I wanna know is, how come Superman could calmly take 6 bullets to the chest and then had to duck when the guy threw the empty gun at him?
__________________
nomadmax is offline  
Likes For nomadmax:
Old 10-26-22, 11:20 AM
  #68  
Broctoon
Super-duper Genius
 
Broctoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Muskrat Springs, Utah
Posts: 1,363
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 597 Post(s)
Liked 680 Times in 348 Posts
Originally Posted by nomadmax
All I wanna know is, how come Superman could calmly take 6 bullets to the chest and then had to duck when the guy threw the empty gun at him?
Right? And how come Donald Duck wraps a towel around his waist when he gets out of the bath, yet he goes out in public wearing a sailor suit and no pants?
Broctoon is offline  
Old 10-26-22, 11:24 AM
  #69  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 36,662
Mentioned: 206 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16916 Post(s)
Liked 12,420 Times in 5,883 Posts
Originally Posted by rsbob
Actually I stop quite often and talk to the owners and pet the dogs since you are so curious. Have met all sorts of wonderful people that way. Any other things I can fill you in on? (I am doing my very best to be courteous).
I rarely stop while riding, but i often toss a "Cute pup!" or something. I often pause while walking to greet pups.
indyfabz is offline  
Likes For indyfabz:
Old 10-26-22, 11:30 AM
  #70  
badger1
Senior Member
 
badger1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 4,859
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1393 Post(s)
Liked 909 Times in 467 Posts
Originally Posted by nomadmax
All I wanna know is, how come Superman could calmly take 6 bullets to the chest and then had to duck when the guy threw the empty gun at him?
Crabon fibr chest protector. His steel head was always left unprotected.
badger1 is online now  
Likes For badger1:
Old 10-26-22, 11:45 AM
  #71  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,797

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 300 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24786 Post(s)
Liked 8,577 Times in 5,986 Posts
Originally Posted by nomadmax
All I wanna know is, how come Superman could calmly take 6 bullets to the chest and then had to duck when the guy threw the empty gun at him?
Originally Posted by badger1
Crabon fibr chest protector. His steel head was always left unprotected.
...that's good for an explanation. I was thinking it must have something to do with aero positioning, but yours makes more sense. Still, in terms of speed, steel is the clear preference. I'm not picking a bike frame so people can shoot at it. I'm picking a bike frame because I want to be faster than everyone else, and look stylish while doing so.


__________________
3alarmer is offline  
Likes For 3alarmer:
Old 10-26-22, 11:55 AM
  #72  
Lombard
Sock Puppet
 
Lombard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,562

Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 951 Post(s)
Liked 794 Times in 531 Posts
If one of these is indeed faster, by how much? Maybe by 0.1 mph? In the immortal words of Kerry Irons , how long is a piece of string?

One thing is certain though, if one of those bikes is red, that one will be waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy faster.
Lombard is offline  
Likes For Lombard:
Old 10-26-22, 12:00 PM
  #73  
badger1
Senior Member
 
badger1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 4,859
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1393 Post(s)
Liked 909 Times in 467 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...that's good for an explanation. I was thinking it must have something to do with aero positioning, but yours makes more sense. Still, in terms of speed, steel is the clear preference. I'm not picking a bike frame so people can shoot at it. I'm picking a bike frame because I want to be faster than everyone else, and look stylish while doing so.


.
badger1 is online now  
Likes For badger1:
Old 10-26-22, 12:03 PM
  #74  
Atlas Shrugged
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,171
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 842 Post(s)
Liked 919 Times in 457 Posts
What is clear within the great Steel vs Carbon debate is that it's a great foundation for the troll poster. It may lack creativity and is rather worn-out but throw in a Big Bike Conspiracy component, and off to the races it goes. I would expect more imagination, considering the OP has been a member for 12 years.
Atlas Shrugged is offline  
Likes For Atlas Shrugged:
Old 10-26-22, 12:17 PM
  #75  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,797

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 300 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24786 Post(s)
Liked 8,577 Times in 5,986 Posts
.
...all of my bicycles are old. I need the Big Bike Conspiracy to feel like my life has meaning.
__________________
3alarmer is offline  
Likes For 3alarmer:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.