SurferRosa

I consider that "efficient."

Unca_Sam

When did you leave?

Columbus has implemented a road diet to add bike lanes on a significant number of major routes downtown. To address the problems of making lefts from 3rd and rights from 4th (because the bike lane is the leftmost lane ) they painted two stage turn boxes where needed. It's a little box in front of the traffic heading in the direction of the risky turn, so you aren't forced to try and merge across 2 or more lanes of higher speed traffic to go the direction you want. I think the boxes are more for training cyclists to learn a new trick if they have car-brain.

For a left, you would stop at the front of traffic heading left of your direction of travel on your side of the intersection and wait for the light to change. For the OP's question, I don't see much of an issue with using this method when there is no turn box or bike lane, unless folks frequently fail to stop make a right turn on red where you are. I imagine in most scenarios a rider will wait in the crosswalk for the light to change in their desired direction of travel, no U turns needed.

Unca_Sam

YEP! That sounds like a two stage turn!

GamblerGORD53

There is ZERO NEED to dangle in busy traffic. Sure it works with sparse traffic. Causing chaos to save 5 seconds?? I-am-a CAR?? LOL.
The U turn I only do if that street is the dead one. Usually I do it to go straight because of a long light or I'm getting stopped at every light downtown. I've heard that city council actually PLAN this to slow traffic. 30 years ago it was hot-rod parades on weekends.

livedarklions

In that particular case, there really isn't a "good" option, looks like you had to pick the one that sucked less. Think I'd probably make the same choice just because it avoids the very awkward left turn from the right margin.

mstateglfr 

For sure- its just the reality of some rides where you mix road and MUP/trail. That picture is actually a route I used when I commuted to my old work. The road is 50mph I think, and I used the trail segment to for about 1mi to connect a side road to the road going north in the pic. As a result of using the path, I had to do a little U turn onto the side road. Made way more sense compared to riding a 2 lane 50mph heavily trafficked road.
The route that sucks less is a very good way to describe how some segments of a route/ride are.

mstateglfr 

What now?
- Who is dangling in busy traffic?
- Who is causing chaos?
- Why is 5 seconds what you think is saved?...and how is that saved?

I have honestly no idea what you are ranting about, but you responded to my post and it appears you are getting pretty darn judgy, so do clarify.
In the specific screenshot I posted, I ride the MUP so I am not 'dangling' in busy traffic nor am I 'causing chaos' to save time.
With that said, in many other situations I do merge into the left turn lane. It isnt to save time though, I am not sure why you think its because of that. I also dont cause chaos because I am just sitting there taking up the same amount of space as a motorcycle. I cant imagine why a driver would pull up behind me sitting there and waiting in line to turn left and think 'this guy is causing chaos!'.

Maybe if I rode a 75# IGH boat that took multiple blocks to get up to speed, I would feel like I am causing chaos by simply sitting in a left turn lane and waiting my turn.

livedarklions

Honestly, his post was so incoherent, I couldn't quite get it, but I think he's claiming the green one is wrong and the u turn is wrong and something is right, but I have no idea what it is.

Maelochs

I hear UPS has drivers make multiple right turns to make left in many high-traffic regions because it is cheaper even to go around the block partway than to pay for the damage when people hit the big, brown truck which so "chaotically" rolling slowly across the road to make a left across a couple lanes of traffic. Apparently studies and simulations and tests and all that "science" stuff demonstrated that even if the trucks drove a few hundred extra yards, they saved time and trouble over trying to wait for gaps in traffic traveling in two (or more) directions.

I know i do that "p"-turn or whatever it is "officially" called whenever I am at a particular intersection when a lot of cars are also .... it is just over the crest of a curving hill, so if I am hanging out on the left side of the travel lane waiting for a break in oncoming traffic, I offer a (hopefully) pleasant surprise to cars who didn't see my riding up the hill ahead of them. I can only assume the drivers are pleased to suddenly see a bike in their paths ... I cannot see them until they are right on top of me, behind me, so I never have time to decipher their expressions ..... (though of course I can hear them coming ... )

I prefer to take the road o on the right (which turns to dirt and ends, so zero traffic) an U-turn, so while I still have to cross both sides of the road I can see traffic coming from the right (what would have been head-on) just as clearly,. and traffic from the right (which would have been behind me a lot better, and also, if a car coming fast crests the hill unexpectedly, I am not right in front of it, but on a side street.

Not sure where that leaves me "dangling in traffic" nor how I am causing "chaos," particularly compared to the chaos I would cause if some car came flying over the crest and hit me from behind as I waited to turn left ....

Whatever, though, really .... most of us probably have decades of road-riding experience and haven't died yet, so we cannot de doing Too badly ....

mschwett 

incidentally, one of my first threads here was about getting pulled over (on my bike) for making a P turn without fully stopping. the officer said the u-turn was OK but the two rights on red required a complete stop.

livedarklions

So 2 rights made a wrong?

RCMoeur 

I've heard it called a "right-U-right".

I've seen it done mainly at signalized intersections where the cross street traffic isn't heavy and the rider's approach doesn't have effective detection of cyclists; i.e. the agency expects bicyclists to push a button, and/or the in-street detection isn't set to detect a bicycle. Since the rider either has to go all the way over and punch the button, wait for another vehicle to arrive to put in a detection call, wait for Godot, run the light entirely, or do the right-U-right, I can see how a rider could view the right-U-right maneuver as a least-worst option. When performing such a maneuver, the rider can just ride along the cross street until an opportunity for a U turn presents itself (which may or may not be legal depending on locations and laws), loop the U, ride back to the street they were on, turn right, and continue (or get caught by a red light at the intersection, possibly causing them to reconsider all their life choices).

If the cross street traffic is heavy, or has a raised median, this maneuver probably isn't going to be a popular choice.

RCMoeur 

No, three rights make a left.

roadcrankr

I probably perform this maneuver a couple of times each ride. You pick your spots, of course, and always stay alert to vehicles.
At busy intersections, it typically requires me to venture two hundred feet AWAY from said intersection, prior to making my U-turn.
And don't worry if you need to abort and end up riding five hundred feet away, while waiting for traffic to clear.
Anyway, my brother and I call it a schmee-mao-mo, especially when riding together.

rollagain

I had to quit cycling in 2000 due to hip problems. Can't recall when I moved (to Hilliard--uck). Haven't ridden in city traffic since.

Sounds like they just made everything harder to understand for everybody, cyclists and car drivers both. Is it working?

Unca_Sam

Yeah, it's working. I see more commuters by bike every month. Most drivers are ready to share the road and give plenty of space when they eventually overtake. Most bike lanes are well-planned, though there are a few that don't seem to have much purpose at the moment other than maybe to bump up the number on the "how many miles of bike lanes does your city have". Broad St west of I-270 into New Rome and Roberts Road west from Wilson Rd are two examples; they don't really connect to a MUP, and the major cross streets are similar stroads.

KerryIrons

Coincidentally I just saw this discussed on the Association of Pedestrian and Bicycle Professionals list serve. I had forgotten the term but indeed it is a "two stage turn." For those who think this is not to be done, look it up.

RCMoeur 

As long as there's an understanding a two-stage turn (with or without the marked box and other devices) is different from a "right-U" maneuver (either with or without the subsequent right), then it's all good. Although the right-U achieves the same result as the TSTB, it has different interactions with traffic.

The two-stage turn box markings and signs are covered in Interim Approval IA-20, which can be seen at https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/res-interim_approvals.htm

'02 nrs

go thru the intersection at Right curb side then stop at the perpendicular curb,lift bike 90*,wait for the signal to change then ride.no 2 rights-no blocking traffic-no Uturns.just yield to pedestrians.

Daniel4

I thought there was a Dutch term for that but I guess I'm mistaken because could not find it in a google search.

For me it would depend on the street I'm on.

A major six lane street (eight if you count the left turn lanes) used to have me riding through the intersection, entering the gas station and coming out from the other exit. Nowadays (because it's winter and I'm riding my slow bike), I'm on the sidewalk, I check for right turning cars, I make a right turn into the side street and then signal and make a quick U-turn without entering that gas station.

Downtown, I have the choice to either stop my bike, get off and cross left at the crosswalk right in front of me or ride straight and cross left.

rsbob 

Then there are the left lane signals which require more than a bike to trip the element to change the light. I even try leaning the bike down and over the lines and still no love. So I sit/stand there as the cars go round-robin over and over, with still no car behind me to trip the sensor. So…. instead of trying to cross back over the two lanes to my right, I do the illegal and take the turn when the oncoming lanes are clear. Not proud but am not going to stand there through who knows how many light cycles.

livedarklions

I've got a couple lights where that happens. It's really funny that the light trigger forces you to break the law or wait forever. Not haha funny.

tomato coupe

They made that legal here (Colorado) last year.

genejockey 

Not sure what the law is where you are - or where I am, frankly! - but I think this falls under the "malfunctioning traffic light" rules which would allow you to proceed after maybe 2 cycles.

There's a left turn near the end of my Sunday long ride route where the inductor loop never picks me up, even on steel. I've taken to waiting until it's clear, then riding in the crosswalks till I've accomplished the left turn. It accomplishes the same thing, and if the city isn't going to make their lights work right for cyclists, well, tough beans.

Maelochs

Unless the light never cycles, and stays green for the more trafficked road until something triggers the other light ....