branko_76 

About 20 years ago, I went to my LBS, a very busy place, to see if they had a single seat stay clamp for a Blackburn rear rack. There were plenty of customers waiting while the owner looked through his parts bins to find one for me. After paying a measly $2.00, I walked out of the store happy they had it but felt like a jerk for wasting this guys time with my petty little request.

Narhay

It's just a little thing but I'm sure they can appreciate how one small part makes or breaks a project.

easyupbug 

I am thinking it is a National trend that customer service does not pay as well as it once did. I see it in other subtle areas, just help a good do-it-yourself lady with a plumbing problem and she had no info on the valves left by her plumber who historically would be left and she filed away for her to change the seals/o-rings. He now could get a $100 call back.

bamboobike4

+1

Same with Ksyriums, straight pull bladed. Very high tension. Proprietary nipples. Supplied plastic spoke wrench is useless. Metal wrench cracked the nipples. No access to the nipples from the rim.

1 spoke, 1 nipple was $18.50. Before 1/2 the nipples disintegrated.

Found a used wheel, owner is using it to display greeting cards. Offered to replace with mine and pay decent money. Declined, said she has offers all the time.

The market has already realized this. Spoke sets, with nipples, used, rival a rear wheel cost when available.

More than one shop has told me “wheels are disposable now.”

I suck at lacing. BF members have laced my last few sets. Reliability has moved there.

squirtdad

I like these guys https://www.wheelbuildingparts.com/

Dylansbob 

Just throwing it out there, but I bought spokes from Bmxguru for a recent build. He seems to be about the cheapest for cut-to-size orders online. Sapim db, no problems.

Dfrost 

The benefit of butted spokes is not due to weight reduction. It’s the stretch in the thinner portion so there’s much less stress on the spoke elbow (where most spoke failures occur) and the hub flange.

embankmentlb

Been there done that. Gave up on one LBS years ago. Can’t buy spokes or nipples for emergency repair. They don’t want to work on older bikes. Always pushing new bike purchase.

Classtime 

This thread has me considering $0.38 spokes. Tell me they work as well as mid 80s straight gauge spokes used on standard 105 or 600 with Wolber or Araya wheel sets.

RandolphCarter

if you're referring to the link i posted earlier they absolutely will. I used them on a set of 48h wheels for a BMX build. The wheels originally had 180mm black spokes with 12mm silver nipples, the wheels were covered in spray paint with many rusty and/or broken spokes. I ordered a 100ct of DT Swiss black brass nipples from Amazon for pretty cheap. Other places had cheaper spokes but the shipping was a lot more.




Got the initial lacing done:



Still need to repack the hubs and tension and true the wheels.

jccaclimber

I'm in SF and have a spoke cutter, so if you get spokes I might be able to help you cut them. When I was in a shop we hated special spoke orders. At the time spokes came in boxes of 100. If you use the same spokes a lot that's great, but if not say someone wants 2x 32, 2x 36, etc. then you get stuck with all the extras, or you have to charge extra for a bunch of spares the customer doesn't want.

One major caveat, I no longer have the spacers, so either you need to have the same gage spokes as what I last cut (IDK), or we need to find someone on this forum with a set they can measure so I can make a set. That or I need to find another shop with a spoke cutter who is willing to let me measure theirs.

I was in AC a few weeks ago and despite having a bad morning (someone had shattered their large front window and stolen a bike the night before) they were very helpful. I did get the impression that they're trying to lean towards whatever might be better paying work given staffing and supply chain issues. The owner was very willing to let me demo anything in the store, but for whatever reason *really* didn't want to order in anything special, even if I was willing to pay in advance. After some hesitation he took my name/number and promised to follow up with availability (a pair of shoes they didn't have in stock) and never did. I got a few accessories I needed to restock on to try to make my visit worth his time, but I'm not sure it did with SF rents.

All that said, while selling customers things they want to buy seems to be essential for a business to stay as one, I can see where the shipping trouble and time to do the math and cut spokes might be a net loss to the shop unless they can recoup some of that labor with a wheel build.

dddd

Wheel building has become more difficult due to today's twistier bladed and thinner spokes, not to mention carbon rims that impose a lot of friction at the nipple/rim interface.
I say you have to charge more, even with lower spoke counts. Building with yesterday's straight 14Ga and 15Ga spokes was so much easier, as was achieving tensions above 90kg.

Oh and about modern wheels being disposable...
Weird story (that I don't really expect anyone to believe):
About 2-1/2 years ago, I found a near-new pair of ~2014 Fulcrum Zero "2-Way-Fit" wheels in a shop's dumpster. Had an old service tag stapled to it and the pair was connected together with a zip-tie. This was equivalent to Campagnolo's top alloy wheel offering with their triplet-laced aluminum spokes. Only thing wrong was one broken rear spoke. Not easily sourced as a single aluminum spoke assembly, but I did finally find an online shop in Germany who sold me the needed spoke plus one spare spoke for each of two or three positions/lengths, plus a special tool, all for about $55 shipped. The wheelset is fixed, perfect, and is only un-detectably used since the sidewall machining pattern is still 100% extant.
Please don't ask me what shop it was.

EDIT:
Guessing...
I'm thinking that since the shop's manager was unsure if the extraspensive spokes and rim both needed to be purchased (and labor charged), that it may have seemed practical to sell the customer a (possibly upgraded) new wheelset and simply set the damaged wheels aside (until they later became further dated with their mere i15mm rim width).

Chombi1 

I always bought my spokes from two brick and mortar shops that I was glad to support. American Cyclery in SF or from Tony Tom at Odyssey Bicycles in Sausalito to build up my wheelsets as they are very receptive to C&Vers. Tony's gone now and American Cyclery is not selling spokes.....
I'm going to look for othe brick and mortar bike shops to get them now. Otherwise, I won't have a choice but buy through the internet......

repechage

you are going to have to do your own spoke length calc's.
Maybe a bike Co-op ? I thought there were one or two in East Bay.

himespau 

The shop near me that I've found has the best mechanics as far as I can tell doesn't sell parts. They only display bikes and a small amount of clothing. Maybe a few water bottles and nutrition items by the register. Every time I've dealt with them, I've brought my own parts in with a specific request and they've done it quickly and competently. I think more shops seem to be going to that model because that's where they can make money. This is a shop that was an authorized dealer of one specific brand and because of that relationship was able to keep mtbs (not really road bikes though) in stock all throughout the pandemic.

Steel Charlie

Fascinating! In the last 45 years or so I've never broken a straight gauge spoke (or a hub) of any diameter. I have a set of straight 15's (like almost everything that I build) on DA hubs that I built in '85 or so, have thousands of miles on them and they have yet needed to be even re-trued. And they'll go right back on the re-hab'd Caylor when it is done. Not sure about all the other wheel sets that I've built over the years but I never had anyone want me to fix any of them or had any probs with the ones I still have and use.
I admit that I avoid potholes and logs in the road tho.

markk900

Chombi1 : You probably already have a favorite but this calculator has worked well for me in a number of situations - especially the "enter the manual specs" for the hub and rim when you have a weird old wheel you want to build....

https://spokecalculator.qbp.com/spokecalculator/

DiabloScott

Newb.
I'm not sure you can even call yourself a cyclist if you've never broken a spoke.

repechage

Marketing by engineering, create a disposable assembly. Expand the replacement market.
There will be a backlash.

Steel Charlie

I was referring to wheels that I had built. I did break a spoke in an OEM wheel on my first dualie tho. Does that count?

cyccommute 

You are making an improper comparison. “Beefy” spokes, especially with large riders and/or heavy loads, isn’t about feeling any kind of difference while riding. It’s about durability of the spokes and the wheel. Frankly, 2.0mm spokes aren’t “beefy”. 2.3mm spokes make for much stronger wheels than using 2.0mm spokes. I’ve used them exclusively since the early 2000s. Where once broken spokes were a frequent occurrence, they are now nonexistent. This article explains why they are so much better for wheel durability. I find that the increase in strength is equal to about a 4 spoke increase in spoke count. In other words, a 32 spoke wheel built with 2.3/1.8/2.0mm triple butted spokes is about as strong as a 36 spoke wheel with 2.0mm spokes.

In the field, I have 36 spoke wheels on a touring bike carrying me and a touring load (probably over 300 lb) and haven’t broken a spoke in over 10,000 miles of loaded touring. I have similar wheels on my bikepacking bike that see far worse conditions with only a slightly smaller load that are equally trouble free.

As to the original post, I generally don’t buy spokes from shops anymore because most shops aren’t interested in providing parts for wheel building. Rose Bikes in Germany is one of the cheapest places around to buy DT Alpine III spokes…much less than wholesale here in the US…even with shipping.

gugie 

10k of loaded touring, that's living the life!