TK LP

We'll see how long til it takes to ship.

gthomson

I heard there's a large back order on the product and now with Wahoo suing them for the patent, let's see what happens. I'm very tempted to buy one as well to replace my Tacx Vortex, which is fine for my purposes, but the direct drive connection would be nice.

Assuming it's quieter than a wheel on trainer?

himespau 

Depending on how the lawsuit goes, those that have already shipped might be the only ones ever shipped, which is a bummer, but I can definitely see how Wahoo would view it as an existential threat.

etw

Over the last few years I have used a Kinetic Road Machine with the control unit. I am seriously looking at the Hub. Not having used a direct drive trainer, from what I hear there should be some definite improvements and upgrades to move to this from a wheel on trainer. Any thoughts from those with experience?

Ed Wiser

I have friends who had the Jet black version and it was a mess. Will be interesting to see Zwift’s support of an actual product.

TK LP

I'll preface my comments with this, I'm a 64-year-old fitness/recreational rider, I don't ride competitively, and I've never had an indoor trainer before this. I wound up looking at these due to a non-bike related accident that resulted in blood clots and bilateral pulmonary embolisms that put me on Eliquis for the next 6 months. When I spoke to my hematologist about my riding, he told me, without hesitation, to buy a Peloton, that a fall incident could too easily become a life-threatening event, and with my wife sitting next to me, left me little choice.



My experience the Zwift Hub has been pretty smooth. It was an easy set up, and the interface was seamless. I've had no issues, pretty much plug and play. Using the Zwift to app its full potential is a little bit of a learning experience, but I'm coming along, and feel it will prove beneficial when I get back out on the road. I think proving to be a good value thus far.

etw

Here and there I have heard of issues with the JetBlack, but those may have been resolved with improvements and firmware updates, but not sure. I have seen positive reviews of the Hub. It does seem that Zwift is working hard at this. I agree that there is a little bit of a learning curve to the app.

I am weighing out whether the Hub will give me any benefits over my current set up. After all, it is just a tool and either way, the same legs will be powering it. I am starting to dig into the training plans to see what will work for me. Thanks for the feedback

PeteHski

Smart trainers just give you a more realistic/immersive experience when using apps like Zwift. For me that makes a BIG difference over using a dumb trainer. Same legs, but my brain appreciates the stimulation from a more realistic trainer. Also much better for interval training in ERG mode, although some smart trainers are better than others in that respect.

etw

My Kurt Kinetic Road Machine has the powered control unit, which does make it interactive. I agree that the ERG mode is a good function and it is a lot better than just a basic "dumb" trainer. Perhaps a direct drive trainer might be a bit of a step up, but this is pretty decent, which is causing my debate with myself and my wallet

PeteHski

Ah I see. I'm not familiar with your setup, so don't know how accurate your power measurement or slope simulation is. Those are the key things that generally improve as you move up the smart trainer hierarchy. That and general ride feel i.e. smoothness and inertia simulation.

himespau 

I think it depends on what you want your numbers for. Most wheel on trainers (even the smart ones that attempt to measure power) don't do a great job with power and often over-report it. Sometimes by quite a lot. The numbers can vary a fair bit just because of the variation in tightness of clamping due to air leaving the tire from one day to the next. If you're just riding around and working out and comparing to other days riding around on the trainer, It's often good enough. IF you want to compare to other people (racing) or compare to the numbers you'd get outside, either an independent powermeter or direct drive is going to give you more comparable info. Whether or not that is important is up to you.

La Tortue

Like PeteHski posted you simply do not have even close to the experience with the Kinetic as you will a direct drive smart trainer. If the direct drive is within the budget it is the easy choice for an avid cyclist. Lots of bad info in this thread. Go to your LBS and ride a complete Zwift event of your choice making sure it has elevation gains. Then and only then will you have your answer.

Polaris OBark

I have one without the control unit, and was thinking that might be worth getting, until I read some of the reviews (eg DC Rainmaker). I can say that the direct-drive trainer I just got (Saris H3) is much more pleasant to ride than the (dumb version of the) Kinetic Road Machine. I got the KK road machine to rehab from an injury in 2013 and it served me well, but it was by no means flawless (by dumb trainer 2013 standards).

Sy Reene

Some issues reported, but hard to really be able to tell how extensive this really is
https://forums.zwift.com/t/new-zwift...data/590852/69

etw

Not very promising

Black wallnut 

My neighbor had a ford that didn't start therefore I'll not buy a Ford.

I had to have the Snap-on guy rebuild my ratchet so their stuff must be junk!

Every product you can find that has ever been offered for sale will have some that are defective. My Hub was shipped the day I ordered and delivered exactly when they predicted. It has worked flawlessly since setting it up. They included an updated skewer bushing set. I compared my power via Hub with my crank based power meter and they were reasonably close. In Zwift when the grade increases it feels like it now. when the grade is expressed in a negative it gets easier. The ride feel is much more realistic. Workouts are now simpler.

Yet my experience is just one person and one trainer. Your results might be different or they might not be. Once I was about to sell off my Garmins until I read how many problems Wahoo owners were also having... The pricepoint of the Hub is amazing considering the price of the nearest competition.

PeteHski

This is the problem with so much online information overload. If you exclude any product that has had a bad review there would be nothing left to buy. It does help to weed out complete lemons though (not suggesting the Zwift Hub is a lemon!).

Bald Paul

This is my concern with ordering one (I am on the waiting list, if they ever come back in stock.) I wonder if the delay in filling orders is related to the lawsuit. I hate buying something that is basically obsolete when you get it, because there is no support or replacement should something go wrong afterwards.

Black wallnut 

Some perspective... Both posts you quote were on or before 10-13.

On 10-27 Zwift contacted me that it was my turn to order a HUB if still interested; I was and I did.

11-1 my HUB arrived. Took about 10 minutes to set up, yeah I'm pretty much mechanically inclined.

11-8 I make my post above. Trainer works fine. Trainer is accurate enough compared to other measuring devices at my disposal. Frankly absolute numbers don't really matter. Do your FTP test and train with the same equipment and it will be fine.

IMHO advice, get on the waiting list. When it is your turn make your decision. Or buy competing brand at a much higher pricepoint if you want similar feature set. Or don't. I don't understand your fear of lack of support or that a purchase is obsolete once you get it... how are you reaching such a conclusion?

etw

That is a good point. It would seem to me that if someone is only using the data with the goal of improving their own riding and fitness, your numbers over time are more important than comparing to other riders

Bald Paul

Has the lawsuit been settled? I'm certain Zwift had orders into the manufacturer and may be eager to unload them before some court tells them they can't sell them anymore. Should they lose the lawsuit, which I believe involves both hardware and software, you had better hope you never have any issues with the unit in the future.
I had purchased a RYLO 360 degree video camera. It worked well, but I was waiting for the promised editing software for PC to be released. (It was either Mac or a hard to use phone app.) Soon afterwards, I got notice that RYLO had sold the software rights to another company, and was discontinuing production of the camera itself, including the batteries. It didn't take long for aftermarket batteries to disappear, and eventually it became a $500 paperweight.

I think if I dig around, I can find my Sony Betamax deck.

Black wallnut 

I don't know about the lawsuit. Given that the hardware is a rebranding of an existing product I am doubtful Wahoo will prevail on that. Given that Zwift and Wahoo are not the only two in the market I am skeptical that Wahoo will prevail but I don't know any details of the suit. I still have a large collection of VHS tapes. I once watched a movie at a friends that was on an RCA large disc player... Technology comes and goes. Right now the HUB was the best buy for me. Your fears seem to say it is not for you. Kool. Once upon a time I had 500 shares of one of the first Companies that was involved in fracking. That was 1982. That turned out to be worthless.

What I do hope is that I can get a winters worth of use out of a trainer and improve my fitness, power, and health. Frankly that will be enough considering what the potential cost of not riding the trainer is.

PeteHski

True as long as the numbers are consistent. Having said that I do much prefer accurate (honest) power for Zwift racing. If I had to pick between an under-reading or over-reading power meter, I would choose the former every time. When I went from my Elite Direto trainer to my Kickr Bike I lost about 5% power (was around 10W down at 200W). Doesn't sound like much, but it suddenly made life really hard work in a Zwift race in my usual category. Basically the difference between sitting comfortably in the pack and hanging on for dear life! A year later I've managed to claw my way back to the level I was with the slightly higher-reading power. My virtual drop in performance actually gave me a real incentive to improve!

So basically I don't want any trainer that flatters my power output (not that I'm suggesting the Zwift hub would do this, just a general comment on power accuracy). I've noticed a lot of gym bikes grossly over-read power and I wonder if this is deliberate to flatter the users?

etw

Some good points about trainer comparison

unterhausen

2nd gen kickr had a large number of online complaints. And there were a number of people that just kept getting bad units. But in the end, wahoo made everyone happy, I think. So it really depends on how zwift handles warranty problems. It seems unlikely that zwift will be stopped from selling units. Now, maybe if computrainer sued both of them or something.

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...ngement-claims
Wahoo was sued by someone in 2015. They got the suit dismissed. I wonder if you can find their filings to see what their rationale was. The kickr design is fairly obvious and mundane. If the patent system wasn't so screwed up, they wouldn't have patents.