Road Fan

Interesting! I have a pair of Brooks Professional Select, stamped A1979 (or A79). Both have wonderful smooth shapes, big rivets, no fractures or major blemishes or injuries, and decent finishes. One has some softness and suppleness, but perhaps too much of that and does not support weight (my mere 200# +/-) very well, it seems saggy. I'm using it for indoor pedaling and I'm gonna try to edge up the tension at least until getting distortion in the center ridge.

The other one is a lot harder and has only a little resilience in the leather. I've Proofided and Obenaufed it and it remains hard. I also did a water soak, so it may be effectively Cuir Bouuilli, and the armor guy seems to say that is not practically reversible. I may have done Proofide and gentle warmth (sitting in a sunny window.) I think next I'll again Proofide and put it on the trainer. For one thing that should finish this last little bit left in one of my old Proofide tins, and we'll see if it helps. If it's good I can always buy more and it not I can try the mink oil paste.

But may be I should just accept that these might never behave as when new, and still might be useful until they are not. The rails make for a decent fit on one of my Mondonicos ...

squirtdad

I don't have any scientific data, but just the feel suggests that they are a bit more softening than proofide.

I got a Berthoud (really like) and seller (rene herse/ Jan Hein) suggested using Obenauf's instead for the Berthoud lotion.

me being me I got both

Obenaug's seems more liquid than proofide and the Berthoud lotion is that a lotion

Big Block

For a tensioned leather saddle it is my understanding that the leather will 'break-in' by the rider using the saddle in the normal riding position for that bike. But first you need to choose the saddle appropriate for the desired riding position. Generally wider for 'sit up and beg' bikes, or longer and narrow for racing bikes with drop bars to provide an unrestricted movement of the thighs. Also the 'sit bones' need to be clear of the cantleplate.
If the correct saddle style has been chosen then it is a matter of using the saddle. When riding, the sit bones will exert greater force on the contact point on the saddle than the remaining contact area of the body. With each ride, the saddle will be molded by the riders individual shape and riding style. When that molding has taken place, the saddle has been broken in.
It is my understanding that Proofide, developed by Brooks for their saddles is to protect and maintain the leather. It is to be used sparingly in accordance with provided instructions.
It is my understanding that there are two common types of leather, vegetable tanned and chrome tanned. They are completely different treatments to give completely different products. Generally soft and pliable (shoe and boot uppers, leather furniture etc) would be chrome tanned. Stiff and non-pliable (shoe and boot soles) would generally be vegetable tanned. Brooks tensioned leather saddles are vegetable tanned. They are made to be firm so that they will mold to the riders shape and then retain that shape. Brooks have not chosen a soft and pliable chrome tanned leather.
Then we come to the care over time. If you read the literature, petroleum sourced products will, over time, degrade the leather and are to be avoided. I want my saddles to last a long time.
Also avoid any treatment that will soften the leather beyond that which comes with use and the sparing use of Proofide, again to protect not soften the leather.
Once leather has dried out, the fibres have been irrevocably damaged and no treatment is going to repair those damaged fibres.
Treatment with products designed for chrome tanned leather can excessively soften the leather and drastically shorten its life. As can excessive application of Proofide.
When I recover saddle frames I use 6-7mm thick vegetable tanned leather, thicker than Brooks use on the Professional! I choose the right frame, sometimes customising the shape of the cantle plate before I recover with new leather, then I am sparing in my use of Proofide. My sitbones make their mark and I have a saddle that is custom formed, very comfortable and will outlive me.

merziac

Well, I screwed it up so I'm glad it was only $25 to begin with but it would have been better to to leave it alone, I just hate them when the skirts splay out.

Anyway, mine looks just about the same as the OP's, hard as rock and cheese grater surface.

Here it is with todays BTD bargain bin find, my first Swift and a fine saddle it is, $100.

AdventureManCO 

I had a slightly crumbly old Brooks that was on a '68 or '69 PX-10, that for sure looked like a goner...



So, I sanded it. Got 95% of the cracked surface out. Call it 'abrasive reconstruction'.

Then, I liberally coated in Lexol and threw it in the over at like 180-200 degrees or some such for about 5 min for probably 3 times.

Saddle came out great -



It is now doing duty on my Novara Randonee, but really probably needs to go back on the PX-10 as she is still saddle-less and the saddle is very likely original to that bike.



My information for the saddle treatment came from some collected information from the fine folks at the Goodyear Welt (r/goodyearwelt) ****** group, which is another interest of mine. It is good when hobbies intersect. There was a story on there of a guy who still had his original leather boots that he got in the 1970s when he went to welding school. Still wears them today. Every year he would clean the leather boots, then treat with leather conditioner and throw in the oven. So I tried it and it worked.

It won't work on every saddle, some are too far gone. But I had nothing to lose. Saddle feels great.

arex

That occurred to me too, but I'm kind of scared to try it. There's already some very small tears at the rearmost two rivets that I really don't want to make worse.

Big Block

Lexol is used for chrome-tanned leather, Brooks saddles have vegetable-tanned leather. Lexol is designed to keep leather supple. Brooks saddles use vegetable-tanned leather to mold to your sitbones.
So after using a product to make the leather supple, you then baked it in an oven.
This technique is known as Cuir Bouolli, and was traditionally used in making armour. It will harden and shrink the leather.
There is a reason why Brooks do not use this process when they make their saddles, and why they do not want the leather to be supple.

fender1

These folks are local to me and I can vouch for the quality of their work.

https://www.transportcycle.com/artic...pair-pg206.htm

Road Fan

To Squirtdad: for me the liquidity of Obenauf's, or of most others seems to be about the temperature of the ointment itself. Some user advice seems to ask us to leave the tub of Ob (or whatever) in the noonday sun, and the same for the leather object needing treatment. Obenauf is not a lotion, however. They have both a bottled product and a paste in a tub. The ingredients read the same, though the list format allows the proportions to differ between the two products.

arex

Okay...I've basically saturated the leather with different products, to the point where it doesn't absorb any more.

The leather has loosened up some, so that it's at a similar tension to my other Brooks saddles...I'm able to successfully bind the wings (?) that are splayed way out because of the tension, and I'll leave it that way for about a week to see if they stay put at all.

However, I do think that a Cuir Bouilli process did happen to the saddle at some point...and it sounds irreversible. I'll mount the saddle on a bike at some point and see how it does.

arex

A follow-up report...

I used a PVC pipe fitting of an appropriate size, jammed in between the middle leather and the rails, and lengths of extremely stout velcro to strap the wings down. I then soaked it in hot water for an hour, took it out and patted it dry of any excess water, and let it dry for a week. I unstrapped it and removed the PVC...it seems to be holding its shape very well, and doesn't seem to be suffering any cracking or other problems from the soaking and drying.

I'll mount it on a bike and see how it does long-term.

rhm

Several of the above posts made me cringe. I'm not naming any names , but here are a few general remarks about leather, water, heat, and oil:

1. Water will temporarily soften veg-tanned leather, but when it dries it will be just as hard as before, if not harder. If you don't want to change the shape of the saddle, don't use water.

2. If you want to change the shape, use cold water. Use as little as possible: if you use so much water that you're changing the color of the water, you're using too much. Put the water on the saddle, don't put the saddle in the water. Your goal is to get the saddle soaking wet without soaking out any of the soluble matter that's in the leather.

3. Repeat: cold water. Not hot water. I will resist the temptation to repeat this further, but please feel free to write it on your forehead with a sharpie.

4. Heat will harden leather. The only reason you would ever use heat would be to harden the leather. If someone applied too much proofide and got the leather too soft, heat may (possibly) help, but go easy! Once it's baked, you cannot unbake it.

5. Some oils dry, some do not. Some oxidize, some do not. If you want to soften leather, use an oil that will not dry and will not oxidize. That's why neatsfoot oil is recommended.

6. New leather doesn't need to be softened, but it might need to be reshaped; that's what you use water for.

7. Repeatedly soaking and drying leather (like what happens if you let a saddle get rained on) will soak out soluble matter that ideally should stay in the leather. Proofide is supposed to replace some of that material and waterproof the leather so it doesn't get soaking wet so easily. As far as i know, that's the only thing proofide is good for.

8. I do not recommend putting proofide on the underside of a saddle. If you don't have fenders and you ride in the rain, better make a plastic shield to put under the saddle to deflect the water coming up from the rear wheel.

9. If a saddle has got too hard, which is what happens after repeated soak-dry cycles, it's never going to be soft again (except when it's soaking wet).
I have had several old dried up saddles that i have treated with lots and lots of neatsfoot oil and it did not soften them in the least, but didn't seem to do any harm. These hard-as-oak-plywood saddles can be very comfortable, but can break in half with no warning.

10. I have been experimenting with drying oils for waterproofing new leather. I've been using safflower oil; one might alternatively try linseed or tung oil. The idea is that the oil fills the pores in the leather so there's no room for water. As the oil dries the pores will open up again, but water will take longer to soften the leather, so the waterproofing effect will remain.

11. Obenauf's has propolis in it. Propolis is what honeybees use to seal up cracks in the hive. They make it from sap of coniferous trees, and it's an amazing material. I like the smell. I experimented with it a few years ago, but didn't continue that experiment. It will melt and mix with oil in liquid state, but will precipitate out before the oil is cool enough to put on leather, so i don't know how Obenauf puts it into their leather dressing. If you know a beekeeper I'm sure they can give you some, which you can disolve in alcohol and paint on your saddle if you want to waterproof it, but go easy; it gets sticky at body temperature.

12. If you accidentally boiled your saddle and ruined the leather, I'll gladly take the remains.

bark_eater 

Is the Obenauf's vs. Proofhide quandary one of life's mysteries?

I recently shifted over to Nikwax "Waterproofing Wax for Leather" for all my leather hikeing and ski boots. Its a water based emulsion of some sort, and was recommended as a second best to "Zamberlan HydroBloc cream"

As far as I can tell it adds soluble oils back to the leather but doesn't soften the leather. The process I used was to wrap the boots in a wet towel to dampen the leather and then coat with the goop. The excess wax floats on the surface but buffs off easily. I haven't tried it on a saddle yet

. I have a bunch of abused Brooks take offs and was going to buy a big tub of Obenaufs's, hoping I wouldn't make any thing worse. The real experiment will be to soak an entire saddle in Evaporust.

arex

This is how I have it strapped up. Noticed that the shape was reverting back to its bowed, splayed shape, so I'm I'm going to wet it down with cold water this time and leave it strapped for a couple of weeks.