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50+ Thoughts on going tubeless.

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50+ Thoughts on going tubeless.

Old 06-13-21, 11:24 AM
  #126  
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Replaced my tubeless front tire last week and it was no more effort than a clincher with the aid of a cheap compressor to seat the tire. No more effort but a bit more messy.
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Old 06-14-21, 08:42 AM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
How many flat tires per year do I have to have (or avoid) to make the hassles of a tubeless tire system preferable? The answer is "more than the two or three that I get currently."
If you went tubeless...it's highly unlikely you would get two or three flats per year. Which saves you the HASSLE of having to change tubes two or three times per year.
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Old 06-14-21, 09:16 AM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
If you went tubeless...it's highly unlikely you would get two or three flats per year. Which saves you the HASSLE of having to change tubes two or three times per year.
Maybe. Convince me. How would I have handled this situation had I a tubeless system?
1. Put a tube in a tubeless tire - might work but messy and a hassle.
2. Attempt to repair with more sealant - unlikely to be successful
3. Call for a ride.

As it was, I changed the tube and put in a dollar bill boot and rode home. Put on a new tire when I got back.
No, this is not a "normal" flat, but it's valid to include it in the mix.



I use sealant in my tubular tires, because "why not?". But I still bring a spare.
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Old 06-14-21, 12:33 PM
  #129  
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Why would you include a flat like that in the mix? Whether tubed or tubeless a tube would be required for a puncture like that for roadside repair.

The whole point of tubeless is sealing up the types of punctures that normally would require you to have to pull the wheel and change/patch the tube. Putting a tube in a tubeless tire is not messy nor a hassle.

As I mentioned earlier...you don't know what you don't know.
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Old 06-14-21, 01:11 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
Maybe. Convince me. How would I have handled this situation had I a tubeless system?
1. Put a tube in a tubeless tire - might work but messy and a hassle.
This obviously. Tubeless ready tyres are the same as tubed tyres when you put a tube in. I carry a pair of disposable gloves to avoid any mess, which is usually exaggerated unless you run silly amounts of sealant.
It might not work in this case because of the bead damage, but the large size Dynaplug plugs would seal that top hole no problem. So I would have probably given that a shot before resorting to the hassle of removing the wheel and fitting a tube.

Tubeless actually gives you a few more roadside options.
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Old 06-14-21, 01:19 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post

As I mentioned earlier...you don't know what you don't know.
And you are pretending that things you know to be problems, aren't a problem.
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Old 06-15-21, 05:55 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
And you are pretending that things you know to be problems, aren't a problem.
What are these problems? I've been running tubeless for long enough that I should be experiencing them.
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Old 06-15-21, 07:14 AM
  #133  
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That works with your narrow tire. I recently flatted with a 40mm Michelin gravel tire. I couldn't lift the tire bead off the rim to get the tube out. I finally broke the plastic tire tool. I then took the wheel to the bike shop. The bike mechanic struggled and finally got the job done with a metal tool. He handed the wheel back to me. I went home put a new tube in and ended up using a long screwdriver to lift the bead of the tire back onto the rim. No way could I have done this in the field on a hot day. Thus, I ponder tubeless.
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Old 06-15-21, 08:16 AM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
And you are pretending that things you know to be problems, aren't a problem.
You may want to look in the mirror.
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Old 06-15-21, 02:31 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by boozergut View Post
That works with your narrow tire. I recently flatted with a 40mm Michelin gravel tire. I couldn't lift the tire bead off the rim to get the tube out. I finally broke the plastic tire tool. I then took the wheel to the bike shop. The bike mechanic struggled and finally got the job done with a metal tool. He handed the wheel back to me. I went home put a new tube in and ended up using a long screwdriver to lift the bead of the tire back onto the rim. No way could I have done this in the field on a hot day. Thus, I ponder tubeless.
That sounds more like a super tight fitting tyre/rim combo than anything inherently related to tubeless or tyre width. I've had that problem with certain tubed tyres and some tubeless/rim combinations mount very easily. All my current mtb and road tyres are reasonably easy to fit without any levers.
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Old 06-15-21, 03:12 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Tubeless ready tyres are the same as tubed tyres when you put a tube in.
I know that some 'tube only' tires can be a tight fit but from the comments here, it seems that 'tubeless ready' tires are more likely to be difficult ot get on and off the rim.
Of course, it may be a case of 'happy customers saying nothing, and the few dissatisfied commenting a lot'....but it doesn't seem that way to me.
That said, getting 'tubeless ready' RH 44 mm Snoqualmie Pass tires on to circa 2014 'for tubes' rims was easy for me when I did it a while ago.
So a lot (way too much) variability in tire bead and rim sizes.
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Old 06-15-21, 03:16 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by boozergut View Post
That works with your narrow tire. I recently flatted with a 40mm Michelin gravel tire. I couldn't lift the tire bead off the rim to get the tube out. I finally broke the plastic tire tool. I then took the wheel to the bike shop. The bike mechanic struggled and finally got the job done with a metal tool. He handed the wheel back to me. I went home put a new tube in and ended up using a long screwdriver to lift the bead of the tire back onto the rim. No way could I have done this in the field on a hot day. Thus, I ponder tubeless.
If you are happy riding that tire/rim combo which isn't 'field-repairable', that's fine.
But I wouldn't be happy. My first step would be to put on the thinnest possible rim tape. If I still couldn't get the tire on/off reasonably easily, the tire would be 'outta here' .
BTW, I just crossed 40 mm Michelin gravel tire off my list. Is that a 'tubeless-ready' tire?
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Old 06-16-21, 04:36 AM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by VicBC_Biker View Post
I know that some 'tube only' tires can be a tight fit but from the comments here, it seems that 'tubeless ready' tires are more likely to be difficult ot get on and off the rim.
Of course, it may be a case of 'happy customers saying nothing, and the few dissatisfied commenting a lot'....but it doesn't seem that way to me.
That said, getting 'tubeless ready' RH 44 mm Snoqualmie Pass tires on to circa 2014 'for tubes' rims was easy for me when I did it a while ago.
So a lot (way too much) variability in tire bead and rim sizes.
All I can say is that the last half dozen or so tubeless tyres Iíve fitted (both mtb and road) went on pretty effortlessly without tyre levers. I have had some tight fitting tubeless and tubed tyres in the past, so it seems pretty random to me.

I think there are proportionally more threads about tubeless tyre issues simply because people are less experienced with them. In the mtb world they have become far more mainstream and you hear of less problems than you used to. But I was running them nearly 20 years ago without issues, when they were allegedly a pita. To me they were much the same except I didnít use sealant with UST rims/tyres.
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Old 06-16-21, 08:24 AM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
I think there are proportionally more threads about tubeless tyre issues simply because people are less experienced with them. In the mtb world they have become far more mainstream and you hear of less problems than you used to. But I was running them nearly 20 years ago without issues, when they were allegedly a pita. To me they were much the same except I didnít use sealant with UST rims/tyres.
Part of it also is resistance to the idea. So many people closed minded. Same thing that happened and is still happening with disc brakes on road bikes...so. much. resistance.
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Old 06-16-21, 08:44 AM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by VicBC_Biker View Post
If you are happy riding that tire/rim combo which isn't 'field-repairable', that's fine.
But I wouldn't be happy. My first step would be to put on the thinnest possible rim tape. If I still couldn't get the tire on/off reasonably easily, the tire would be 'outta here' .
BTW, I just crossed 40 mm Michelin gravel tire off my list. Is that a 'tubeless-ready' tire?
Yes, it is tubeless ready. The bike shop keeps talking me out of going tubeless. They must be vested in repairing flats :-)
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Old 06-16-21, 08:55 AM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by boozergut View Post
Yes, it is tubeless ready. The bike shop keeps talking me out of going tubeless. They must be vested in repairing flats :-)

It is by far the number one for which people bring bikes into a shop.
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Old 06-16-21, 08:59 AM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
Incorrect. You know what the hassles are and you're ignoring them.
There are dozens of threads on this topic across multiple forums where people with real experience have expressed legitimate gripes about those hassles.
And the fact is, tubeless systems offer zero advantages over tubed tires for someone who gets zero flats... the benefit to hassle ratio is a continuum beyond that, and different riders can draw the line at different places.

Nonsense,

I have been running tubeless for ten+ years and have never had one fecking hassle. I have not even had a flat in the past four years of riding 5k miles per year.

Seriously dude. Just because a bunch of wanks cannot get their feces congealed is no reason to spray your own feces around the room and make such false accusations. Pull your head our of your lower intestine and the world won't look like poop to you anymore.
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Old 06-16-21, 10:12 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by boozergut View Post
Yes, it is tubeless ready. The bike shop keeps talking me out of going tubeless. They must be vested in repairing flats :-)
Well, if I were going to keep riding a tire I couldn't get off the rim at the roadside, I'd definitely go tubeless and carry tire plugs.
But I'd be more likely to try to find a tire that went on more easily. If the LBS can help with that it could save a lot of wasted $$ in buying tires that don't fit.
It seems like it's a matter of luck whether a tire will fit rims or not. With many millions of bikes out there it would be nice to see some widespread standards, or even published measurements which could predict a combination that would fit easily.
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Old 06-16-21, 10:25 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Part of it also is resistance to the idea. So many people closed minded. Same thing that happened and is still happening with disc brakes on road bikes...so. much. resistance.
Tubeless and disc brakes have one thing in common: many assertions of their superiority, supported by half truths and marketing speak.
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Old 06-16-21, 10:25 AM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Part of it also is resistance to the idea. So many people closed minded. Same thing that happened and is still happening with disc brakes on road bikes...so. much. resistance.
Itís a bit like the transition to electric cars and pretty much anything else that requires a slightly different mindset. I can understand those who have tried and failed to run tubeless for whatever reason. I can also understand those who simply donít want to make the change. But I donít understand those who have never even tried tubeless, but proclaim them to be a major hassle or have zero benefits. As I say, itís exactly the same with electric cars!
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Old 06-16-21, 10:42 AM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
As I say, it’s exactly the same with electric cars!
EC GUY: Dude, you need to get an electric car!
Me: What problems does it solve?
EC GUY: Air pollution, catastrophic climate change, dude!
ME: Cool!

TUBELESS GUY: Dude, you totally should go tubeless!
ME: What problems does it solve?
TUBELESS GUY: Punctures, dude!
ME: So I won't get any more punctures?
TUBELESS GUY: You'll get fewer punctures, as long as you use liquid sealant and change it out regularly.
ME: Hmm.

"Exactly the same."
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Old 06-16-21, 10:47 AM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
As I say, itís exactly the same with electric cars!
If the tubeless bike tire 'movement' is exactly the same as the electric car hype, that's the best argument against tubeless that I've read.
The ultimate fall-back argument used by folks with bad ideas is always "You are afraid of change".
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Old 06-16-21, 10:54 AM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Tubeless and disc brakes have one thing in common: many assertions of their superiority, supported by half truths and marketing speak.
There's not even a question that disc are superior to rim brakes. Why do you think they are used in automobiles?

Rim brakes are the equivalent of the old drum brakes that used to be used in cars.
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Old 06-16-21, 11:00 AM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post

TUBELESS GUY: You'll get fewer punctures, as long as you use liquid sealant and change it out regularly.
ME: Hmm.
See this is the problem. Tubeless guy doesn't know what he is talking about.

1.) Nobody said you would get fewer punctures. What has been said is that the majority of small punctures that we get (usually the pin hole type caused by sharp rock, glass or small nail) would be sealed by the sealant...Meaning you can keep on riding or at a minimum you will have to stop and add a little air. Thus saving the hassle of stopping, pulling the tire and changing or patching the tube. <<<---Way more hassle than going tubeless.

2.) You don't have to change out the sealant regularly. You just have to add a few ounces every now and then. Outside of a severe puncture, the only time you will see the inside of a tubeless tires is when it wears out and has to be changed.
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Old 06-16-21, 11:01 AM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
There's not even a question that disc are superior to rim brakes. Why do you think they are used in automobiles?
Because automobiles are orders of magnitude heavier than bicycles?

I have yet to experience a moment on a bicycle when I thought "I need better braking". And I brake rather hard when descending.
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