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50+ Thoughts on going tubeless.

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50+ Thoughts on going tubeless.

Old 06-16-21, 05:33 PM
  #176  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
And this sealant inside the tire somehow wouldn't provide the same benefit if it were inside a tube?

I know, you don't have to say it. I don't "get it".
Iím not convinced sealant works as well inside a tube as it does in a tubeless tyre. The puncture hole in a wafer thin tube is likely to expand much more than the hole in the tyre tread. I also very much doubt you could use a worm plug to seal a punctured tubed tyre like you can with tubeless if the hole is too big to self-seal.

The tube just seems redundant once you go down the sealant route. Except as a last resort backup for roadside repair when all else has failed. Which for me has never happened ever.
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Old 06-16-21, 05:48 PM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
The one reason I'm avoiding going tubeless is I never ever want my bike or myself sprayed down with sealant, or have it all over my hands, wheels, tires or garage. Or take on the extra maintenance of adding/cleaning goop. Running tubes is not a hassle in the least. Okay, at least three reasons.
I found running tubes a bit of a hassle. Having to stop at the roadside, remove the wheel etc. for every little puncture.
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Old 06-16-21, 06:11 PM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
And this sealant inside the tire somehow wouldn't provide the same benefit if it were inside a tube?

I know, you don't have to say it. I don't "get it".
A friend had a flat with a tube which had sealant in it. While he was installing his spare tube I put some air into the flat to see if I could locate the leak. I couldn't find a leak and then couldn't deflate the tube because the sealant had sealed the valve. Oops. Didn't have a removable core.
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Old 06-16-21, 06:37 PM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
A friend had a flat with a tube which had sealant in it. While he was installing his spare tube I put some air into the flat to see if I could locate the leak. I couldn't find a leak and then couldn't deflate the tube because the sealant had sealed the valve. Oops. Didn't have a removable core.
Those tubes without removable valve cores are evil!
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Old 06-16-21, 07:02 PM
  #180  
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Some years ago our group was riding in the mountains on a cold day and some of us stopped at the only cafe on route while others kept going, heading for a descent known for causing flats with sharp rocks and holes. A guy in the lead group who happened to be running tubeless double flatted, cutting both tires.

Those of us who had stopped to eat were running nearly an hour behind them but when we got there they were still struggling to put tubes in his tires. Now I know some rim/tire combinations are worse than others and many riders are inept when it comes to fixing things but this was ridiculous.

I have tubeless ready tires/rims on my mtb but they have tubes in them. I might go tubeless but haven't yet. I ran over a huge nail and had to dismount the tire during the ride. What a giant pain! I think it took me 30 minutes. It was more difficult than my old motorcycle tires, the front one anyway.
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Old 06-17-21, 03:28 AM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
Some years ago our group was riding in the mountains on a cold day and some of us stopped at the only cafe on route while others kept going, heading for a descent known for causing flats with sharp rocks and holes. A guy in the lead group who happened to be running tubeless double flatted, cutting both tires.

Those of us who had stopped to eat were running nearly an hour behind them but when we got there they were still struggling to put tubes in his tires. Now I know some rim/tire combinations are worse than others and many riders are inept when it comes to fixing things but this was ridiculous.

I have tubeless ready tires/rims on my mtb but they have tubes in them. I might go tubeless but haven't yet. I ran over a huge nail and had to dismount the tire during the ride. What a giant pain! I think it took me 30 minutes. It was more difficult than my old motorcycle tires, the front one anyway.
Had you run your mtb tyre tubeless you could have simply pulled the nail out, fired in a Dynaplug (or similar) and been on your way in less than a couple of minutes. Tubeless for mtb has been a no-brainer for years now, despite the inevitable resistance when it first appeared some 20 years ago.
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Old 06-17-21, 07:45 AM
  #182  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Compare a tubeless tire to an equivalent normal tire and latex tube.

They weigh about the same, and the rolling resistance is very similar.

Advantage: neither one.
Show us the data.
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Old 06-17-21, 08:15 AM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Had you run your mtb tyre tubeless you could have simply pulled the nail out, fired in a Dynaplug (or similar) and been on your way in less than a couple of minutes. Tubeless for mtb has been a no-brainer for years now, despite the inevitable resistance when it first appeared some 20 years ago.
That's what they tell me.
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Old 06-17-21, 08:26 AM
  #184  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Show us the data.
Overall, the biggest takeaway from AeroCoachís latest round of testing seems to be that casing flexibility is the most important single determinant when it comes to rolling efficiency. However, itís also interesting that AeroCoach found no difference in rolling resistance between a tubeless-ready tire that is set up tubeless with a latex-based liquid sealant, and one that has a high-performance latex inner tube installed.

Whatís faster, tubes or tubeless? The answer remains the same: it depends - CyclingTips
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Old 06-17-21, 09:10 AM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Show us the data (on tubeless vs normal).
Already done, in this thread.
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Old 06-19-21, 03:54 PM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
It's pretty obvious that there is no "need" for tubeless or disc brakes. But that says absolutely nothing about any potential benefits of them. Personally I've found both of these developments to be an overall improvement, even if there are some minor downsides too.
Agree with this. I went tubeless straight away on my Domane with GP 5Ks. This decision was almost 100% because I wanted to. My rural roads arenít the smoothest but generally clear of flat causing crap. Flats are not a headache for me. So far Iím pleased. Only issue Iíve had is the front tire valve clogging with sealant. I pulled the core out and heard the dreaded pop-pop and sealant oozing out. Well, crap I thought. Put the core back in and pumped back up to my normal 60 psi. Seated right back in place. I did have my LBS replace the core.
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Old 06-21-21, 12:13 PM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
Maybe. Convince me. How would I have handled this situation had I a tubeless system?
1. Put a tube in a tubeless tire - might work but messy and a hassle.
2. Attempt to repair with more sealant - unlikely to be successful
3. Call for a ride.

As it was, I changed the tube and put in a dollar bill boot and rode home. Put on a new tire when I got back.
No, this is not a "normal" flat, but it's valid to include it in the mix.



I use sealant in my tubular tires, because "why not?". But I still bring a spare.
It is too bad I just replaced my front (GP5000 tubeless) but the rear is nearing replacement. When it does need replaced, I will put a drywall screw through it. I will let you know how it works, but I expect it to hold air.

I have had two hassles with road tubeless:

1) tape / rim / sealant compatibility. Tires would be fine for a month or so, then go flat sitting over night. I tried several brands of sealant and tape. Settled on Orange Seal Winter and 3M tape.

2) Royal 1st class PITA to mount: I use a ratcheting wood worker's clamp to keep one side on the rim. I have used the same clamp to dismount tube and tubeless MTB tires that seem to get stuck to the rim. I also use my higher quality levers (Pedro's for me, but I am sure there are other brands that are just as good or better). The cheap ones that I had to change tubed touring tires don't seem to do the job.

The issue I have not had is having to put a tube in on the road. I don't like the idea of patching larger cuts with a piece of plastic or paper to hold the tube in place. When touring I carry a spare tire in the paniers.

I do know that when I take an old tubeless tire off it is not that big a job. Again, I am using a stiffer tire lever. And, yes, in the "good old days" I changed road tires without any tools. So maybe carrying 3 nylon levers is a downside.
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Old 06-21-21, 12:22 PM
  #188  
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Originally Posted by DangerousDanR View Post
When touring I carry a spare tire in the paniers.
Can you set the beads on a new (recently folded) tubeless tire on the roadside with a CO2 inflator or road pump?
Some accounts say it's easy, other folks complain that it's tough with a regular floor pump (or even a compressor, sometimes..).
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Old 06-21-21, 12:40 PM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by DangerousDanR View Post
It is too bad I just replaced my front (GP5000 tubeless) but the rear is nearing replacement. When it does need replaced, I will put a drywall screw through it. I will let you know how it works, but I expect it to hold air.

I have had two hassles with road tubeless:

1) tape / rim / sealant compatibility. Tires would be fine for a month or so, then go flat sitting over night. I tried several brands of sealant and tape. Settled on Orange Seal Winter and 3M tape.

2) Royal 1st class PITA to mount: I use a ratcheting wood worker's clamp to keep one side on the rim. I have used the same clamp to dismount tube and tubeless MTB tires that seem to get stuck to the rim. I also use my higher quality levers (Pedro's for me, but I am sure there are other brands that are just as good or better). The cheap ones that I had to change tubed touring tires don't seem to do the job.

The issue I have not had is having to put a tube in on the road. I don't like the idea of patching larger cuts with a piece of plastic or paper to hold the tube in place. When touring I carry a spare tire in the paniers.

I do know that when I take an old tubeless tire off it is not that big a job. Again, I am using a stiffer tire lever. And, yes, in the "good old days" I changed road tires without any tools. So maybe carrying 3 nylon levers is a downside.
Usually the manufacturer of the tubeless compatible rim will make a tape that fits the rim correctly or in the case of Trek, they make a one piece tubeless strip if you don't want to use tape.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/e...strip/p/31426/

As far as fit and mounting...that doesn't change whether it's a tubed or tubeless tire. I've had some tires go on easy and some are a PITA...both tubed and tubeless...depends on the tire manufacturer and model. Just because a tire is tubeless doesn't mean it's harder to put on than the same exact make and model of tubed tire.
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Old 06-21-21, 01:01 PM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by DangerousDanR View Post
When it does need replaced, I will put a drywall screw through it. I will let you know how it works, but I expect it to hold air.
Thanks. I will eat my words and soften my position if that's true.
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Old 06-21-21, 02:26 PM
  #191  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post

As far as fit and mounting...that doesn't change whether it's a tubed or tubeless tire. I've had some tires go on easy and some are a PITA...both tubed and tubeless...depends on the tire manufacturer and model. Just because a tire is tubeless doesn't mean it's harder to put on than the same exact make and model of tubed tire.
That's my experience too. I have had a good run on easy fitting tubeless tyres. Getting them to seat is another matter, but I haven't had any huge dramas with that either.
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Old 06-22-21, 05:31 AM
  #192  
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Syringe or Not

Does anyone use the syringe to put in the fluid? I've changed my tubeless fat bike tires a couple of times, and it can get messy, even if I am careful. I was initially keen on the syringe, but an LBS guy said no need. I think I am going to revisit this. I realize that most of the mess is from removing the tire, which wouldn't involve the syringe. Thanks.
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Old 06-22-21, 05:57 AM
  #193  
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I use a syringe on road bikes. Works fine. I rotate the valve to about 7 or 8 and slowly put the fluid in. Reinsert valve. Be sure to wash the syringe. I’ve probably done 10 tires that way.
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Old 06-22-21, 06:16 AM
  #194  
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Would 4 or 5 o'clock work? I will do this next time. I have a Monster X Seven being built, which I may receive someday if SRAM starts producing some components, or they make it out of the docks in LA. That will be all tubeless. Thank you, Dennis.
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Old 06-22-21, 08:18 AM
  #195  
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Originally Posted by CaptMike View Post
Does anyone use the syringe to put in the fluid? I've changed my tubeless fat bike tires a couple of times, and it can get messy, even if I am careful. I was initially keen on the syringe, but an LBS guy said no need. I think I am going to revisit this. I realize that most of the mess is from removing the tire, which wouldn't involve the syringe. Thanks.
Orange seal comes with an injector hose to dump it in. The hose fits over the presta valve. Remove the valve core and dump it in. Put valve core back in. Done. No mess at all.



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Old 06-22-21, 11:24 AM
  #196  
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Same with Muc-off sealant if you buy the litre bottles.
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Old 06-22-21, 03:26 PM
  #197  
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Originally Posted by VicBC_Biker View Post
Can you set the beads on a new (recently folded) tubeless tire on the roadside with a CO2 inflator or road pump?
Some accounts say it's easy, other folks complain that it's tough with a regular floor pump (or even a compressor, sometimes..).
I don't know. I have never had to.

Back when I ran tube tires we did have a pinch flat, though, on a very rough "B" road on Skye. My pump failed to inflate anywhere close to the correct inflation pressure. Three French lads came over the hill and one of them had a Silca pump in his pack. I bought one when I got home.

At home I use a compressor. If my pump can't inflate it on tour I will put the tube I carry in.
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Old 06-22-21, 03:31 PM
  #198  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Usually the manufacturer of the tubeless compatible rim will make a tape that fits the rim correctly or in the case of Trek, they make a one piece tubeless strip if you don't want to use tape.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/e...strip/p/31426/

As far as fit and mounting...that doesn't change whether it's a tubed or tubeless tire. I've had some tires go on easy and some are a PITA...both tubed and tubeless...depends on the tire manufacturer and model. Just because a tire is tubeless doesn't mean it's harder to put on than the same exact make and model of tubed tire.
Conti GP5000 tubeless. They are a ROYAL PITA, but my stoker (unprovoked) asked what I had done to the bike to make it feel so much more connected to the road the first time I put them on.

And when I think about it, the 32mm on the tandem are not so bad. Spinergy wheels from House of Tandems. It is the 25mm on the solo bike Rolf wheels that are so hard to mount..
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Old 06-23-21, 07:59 AM
  #199  
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Originally Posted by VicBC_Biker View Post
Can you set the beads on a new (recently folded) tubeless tire on the roadside with a CO2 inflator or road pump?
Yes. Because if you are doing a roadside fix on a tubeless tire, more than likely you are putting in a tube and when you pump it up it will seat the beads.
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Old 06-23-21, 08:01 AM
  #200  
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Originally Posted by DangerousDanR View Post
Conti GP5000 tubeless. They are a ROYAL PITA...
Those are the same tires I have. They were a piece of cake to mount on my stock Bontrager wheels.

Depends on the tire and wheel combination. Some easy...Some PITA. Nothing to do with tubeless or tubed.
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