View Poll Results: What Are Your Helmet Wearing Habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet
52
10.40%
I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped
24
4.80%
I've always worn a helmet
208
41.60%
I didn't wear a helmet, but now do
126
25.20%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions
90
18.00%
Voters: 500. You may not vote on this poll
The Helmet Thread 2
12-08-16, 11:43 AM
#2501
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But yes, there is a website out there publishing unreviewed papers, one of which claims, with no evidence, that a cracked helmet is a fail and only gave "superficial protection." Other websites focus on pizza....
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 12-08-16 at 01:02 PM.
12-12-16, 05:07 PM
#2502
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Absent a manufacturing defect, a helmet will crush then crack. Even after it has cracked, it can still absorb more energy, just not as efficiently as before the crack. Some manufacturers are putting internal reinforcement to help delay cracking and to increase the stability of the helmet when there is cracking.
But yes, there is a website out there publishing unreviewed papers, one of which claims, with no evidence, that a cracked helmet is a fail and only gave "superficial protection." Other websites focus on pizza....
-mr. bill
But yes, there is a website out there publishing unreviewed papers, one of which claims, with no evidence, that a cracked helmet is a fail and only gave "superficial protection." Other websites focus on pizza....
-mr. bill
12-13-16, 08:50 AM
#2503
Senior Member
My understanding is that cracking of a helmet represents having exceeded the level of force it was designed to mitigate. In a typical scenario, the liner will work as designed and deform/crush to mitigate forces of the crash being transmitted to the skull, but once that crush limit is reached, it may crack. In outlier cases, the helmet may crack due to manufacturing defect, or without having first crushed due to some aspect of the impact, and may in fact have been less effective.
Just because a helmet cracked during a crash with head impact does not mean it failed to mitigate some injury. But further examination is warranted to see if it worked as designed, if there was also concurrent crush deformation of the foam liner, which might indicate that some force was dissipated before being transmitted to the skull, and which might indicate that some injury was mitigated by the helmet, before it reached performance limits and cracked.
Just because a helmet cracked during a crash with head impact does not mean it failed to mitigate some injury. But further examination is warranted to see if it worked as designed, if there was also concurrent crush deformation of the foam liner, which might indicate that some force was dissipated before being transmitted to the skull, and which might indicate that some injury was mitigated by the helmet, before it reached performance limits and cracked.
12-13-16, 09:15 AM
#2504
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My understanding is that cracking of a helmet represents having exceeded the level of force it was designed to mitigate. In a typical scenario, the liner will work as designed and deform/crush to mitigate forces of the crash being transmitted to the skull, but once that crush limit is reached, it may crack. In outlier cases, the helmet may crack due to manufacturing defect, or without having first crushed due to some aspect of the impact, and may in fact have been less effective.
Just because a helmet cracked during a crash with head impact does not mean it failed to mitigate some injury. But further examination is warranted to see if it worked as designed, if there was also concurrent crush deformation of the foam liner, which might indicate that some force was dissipated before being transmitted to the skull, and which might indicate that some injury was mitigated by the helmet, before it reached performance limits and cracked.
Just because a helmet cracked during a crash with head impact does not mean it failed to mitigate some injury. But further examination is warranted to see if it worked as designed, if there was also concurrent crush deformation of the foam liner, which might indicate that some force was dissipated before being transmitted to the skull, and which might indicate that some injury was mitigated by the helmet, before it reached performance limits and cracked.
Well going back to first principles, we know that impact absorbed is directly proportional to the amount of compression. If the EPS foam is broken into two pieces, I can see that the two pieces might be crushed by different amounts, which would mean that the head had experienced higher impact on one area and lower on another. Particularly where the crack is. But that's just a "maybe", the question is in practice is that really a factor at all? Just as plausibly, the different pieces of foam still absorb the same amount of impact as they would have without the crack and it's distributed the same across the skull surface.
I have an "unknown" on this question, but I'm leaning towards the latter. I think a bag of foam peanuts would have as much effect as a solid piece, as long as there was the same amount of the same kind of foam and the bag kept them from spreading out.
12-13-16, 09:22 AM
#2505
Senior Member
I think this is another way of explaining the same thing, or another take on the same basic principle, and agree.
Basically: just because a helmet cracked does not mean that it did not work, as designed. There's a chance it did not, but without further examination, without more information about the scenario and the post-crash helmet, cracking alone does not indicate that a helmet was not effective in mitigating injury.
Basically: just because a helmet cracked does not mean that it did not work, as designed. There's a chance it did not, but without further examination, without more information about the scenario and the post-crash helmet, cracking alone does not indicate that a helmet was not effective in mitigating injury.
01-20-17, 09:53 AM
#2506
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Helmet Schmelmet
In just a few hours, they are at 10% of Helmet Thread 2. This may be the editorial that broke the Gothamist comment section.
-mr. bill
In just a few hours, they are at 10% of Helmet Thread 2. This may be the editorial that broke the Gothamist comment section.
-mr. bill
01-21-17, 04:01 AM
#2507
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Helmet Schmelmet
In just a few hours, they are at 10% of Helmet Thread 2. This may be the editorial that broke the Gothamist comment section.
-mr. bill
In just a few hours, they are at 10% of Helmet Thread 2. This may be the editorial that broke the Gothamist comment section.
-mr. bill
scott s.
.
02-07-17, 05:47 PM
#2508
Senior Member
Good Article On Bicycle Helmets In Momentum Magazine
I wear a helmet all the time and I insist that others who ride with me wear them, too. However, this article is worth a read...
https://momentummag.com/bicycle-helm...ing-us-back-2/
https://momentummag.com/bicycle-helm...ing-us-back-2/
02-07-17, 06:15 PM
#2509
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Good read. Thanks for posting.
This is an interesting quote:
A 2012 survey in Norway found that people who rode bicycles at higher speeds were more likely to be helmeted (as well as using other racing gear such as spandex, goggles, clip-in shoes, a superlight bicycle) and more likely to be involved in crashes. Slower bicyclists were not as accident-prone and because they perceived bicycling to be less risky, they were not as likely to wear helmets.
If I were to go somewhere without wearing spandex, clipless pedals, or a 'superlight' bike, I'd probably go without a helmet as well. But because I'd like to get to work and back home in the least amount of time possible I like to ride as fast as I can. So it's not that the helmet makes me want to take more risks by riding faster; it's the other way around--I know I'll be riding faster and therefore taking more risks, that's why I wear a helmet.
This is an interesting quote:
A 2012 survey in Norway found that people who rode bicycles at higher speeds were more likely to be helmeted (as well as using other racing gear such as spandex, goggles, clip-in shoes, a superlight bicycle) and more likely to be involved in crashes. Slower bicyclists were not as accident-prone and because they perceived bicycling to be less risky, they were not as likely to wear helmets.
If I were to go somewhere without wearing spandex, clipless pedals, or a 'superlight' bike, I'd probably go without a helmet as well. But because I'd like to get to work and back home in the least amount of time possible I like to ride as fast as I can. So it's not that the helmet makes me want to take more risks by riding faster; it's the other way around--I know I'll be riding faster and therefore taking more risks, that's why I wear a helmet.
02-07-17, 06:16 PM
#2510
Senior Member
I would ride my bike no differently if I were wearing a helmet or not. However, should I fall, I'm going to do better with a helmet if I hit my head than I would otherwise. Given that age 25 is a long way (best brain plasticity) in the rear view mirror for me, 100% recovery from a moderate TBI would be problematic so I'm wearing a helmet and promoting them heavily. "Perception" is not going to make my brain better.
J.
J.
02-07-17, 07:05 PM
#2511
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In before the move to A&S. 
Seriously though, having been involved in multiple crashes that involved landing on my head, you won't get me to give up my helmet. I do think the article makes a good point about city biking though. When a bicycle is used for city transportation, low speeds are significantly more acceptable than for, say, a suburban commute of 10+ miles each way. I think if people are riding sensibly around the city at a slow speed it's probably OK not to have a helmet.
Of course, the premise that helmets are holding back U.S. cycling transportation share is completely contrary to the reality of U.S. transportation characteristics. Helmet use might hold back the rate at which people take 3-5 mile trips in good weather over flat terrain, but most people aren't making that sort of trip. People traveling 10+ miles to their destination aren't likely to just hop on a bike and go, making the whole trip at low speed, and arriving at their destination fresh and presentable.
Seriously though, having been involved in multiple crashes that involved landing on my head, you won't get me to give up my helmet. I do think the article makes a good point about city biking though. When a bicycle is used for city transportation, low speeds are significantly more acceptable than for, say, a suburban commute of 10+ miles each way. I think if people are riding sensibly around the city at a slow speed it's probably OK not to have a helmet.
Of course, the premise that helmets are holding back U.S. cycling transportation share is completely contrary to the reality of U.S. transportation characteristics. Helmet use might hold back the rate at which people take 3-5 mile trips in good weather over flat terrain, but most people aren't making that sort of trip. People traveling 10+ miles to their destination aren't likely to just hop on a bike and go, making the whole trip at low speed, and arriving at their destination fresh and presentable.
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02-07-17, 08:58 PM
#2512
Senior Member
In before the move to A&S.
Seriously though, having been involved in multiple crashes that involved landing on my head, you won't get me to give up my helmet. I do think the article makes a good point about city biking though. When a bicycle is used for city transportation, low speeds are significantly more acceptable than for, say, a suburban commute of 10+ miles each way. I think if people are riding sensibly around the city at a slow speed it's probably OK not to have a helmet.
Of course, the premise that helmets are holding back U.S. cycling transportation share is completely contrary to the reality of U.S. transportation characteristics. Helmet use might hold back the rate at which people take 3-5 mile trips in good weather over flat terrain, but most people aren't making that sort of trip. People traveling 10+ miles to their destination aren't likely to just hop on a bike and go, making the whole trip at low speed, and arriving at their destination fresh and presentable.
Seriously though, having been involved in multiple crashes that involved landing on my head, you won't get me to give up my helmet. I do think the article makes a good point about city biking though. When a bicycle is used for city transportation, low speeds are significantly more acceptable than for, say, a suburban commute of 10+ miles each way. I think if people are riding sensibly around the city at a slow speed it's probably OK not to have a helmet.
Of course, the premise that helmets are holding back U.S. cycling transportation share is completely contrary to the reality of U.S. transportation characteristics. Helmet use might hold back the rate at which people take 3-5 mile trips in good weather over flat terrain, but most people aren't making that sort of trip. People traveling 10+ miles to their destination aren't likely to just hop on a bike and go, making the whole trip at low speed, and arriving at their destination fresh and presentable.
It's also more about the infrastructure. In Minneapolis, as they have added bike lanes, routes and bike "expressways", the number of commuters has gone up quickly. Richard Schwinn (Gunnar, Waterford CEO) traces bike sales and usages directly to infrastructure. I don't think helmets have anything to do with it. No one thinks, for example, that seat belt usage limits the use of cars. At some point, it becomes kind of automatic to put on your seatbelt. I think we are pretty much there or have it in sight for cycling and helmets.
J.
02-07-17, 09:12 PM
#2513
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I wear a helmet all the time and I insist that others who ride with me wear them, too. However, this article is worth a read...
https://momentummag.com/bicycle-helm...ing-us-back-2/
https://momentummag.com/bicycle-helm...ing-us-back-2/
02-07-17, 09:40 PM
#2514
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Thread moved from Commuting
02-08-17, 05:56 AM
#2515
Senior Member
In before the move to A&S.
Seriously though, having been involved in multiple crashes that involved landing on my head, you won't get me to give up my helmet. I do think the article makes a good point about city biking though. When a bicycle is used for city transportation, low speeds are significantly more acceptable than for, say, a suburban commute of 10+ miles each way. I think if people are riding sensibly around the city at a slow speed it's probably OK not to have a helmet.
Of course, the premise that helmets are holding back U.S. cycling transportation share is completely contrary to the reality of U.S. transportation characteristics. Helmet use might hold back the rate at which people take 3-5 mile trips in good weather over flat terrain, but most people aren't making that sort of trip. People traveling 10+ miles to their destination aren't likely to just hop on a bike and go, making the whole trip at low speed, and arriving at their destination fresh and presentable.
Seriously though, having been involved in multiple crashes that involved landing on my head, you won't get me to give up my helmet. I do think the article makes a good point about city biking though. When a bicycle is used for city transportation, low speeds are significantly more acceptable than for, say, a suburban commute of 10+ miles each way. I think if people are riding sensibly around the city at a slow speed it's probably OK not to have a helmet.
Of course, the premise that helmets are holding back U.S. cycling transportation share is completely contrary to the reality of U.S. transportation characteristics. Helmet use might hold back the rate at which people take 3-5 mile trips in good weather over flat terrain, but most people aren't making that sort of trip. People traveling 10+ miles to their destination aren't likely to just hop on a bike and go, making the whole trip at low speed, and arriving at their destination fresh and presentable.
If my route to work here in NY were as isolated from traffic as bike lanes are in some international cities, I might consider going helmetless. But for now, as much as I agree with the writer's point that helmets keep lots of people from riding, I'm keeping my nutshell in place.
02-14-17, 04:23 AM
#2516
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Yeah, good points. For myself, there are times when I will hop on the local bike path without a helmet, knowing I'm not going to be riding more than about 7mph and that I won't come into contact with any motor vehicles along the way. But on the road, I can't imagine being without one.
I don't wear a helmet on my commute, I have fallen off my bike about once every 3000 miles or so and never hit my head. A helmet may mitigate some serious injuries, but for my commute of 3 miles I can live with the risk. If I was that worried about injuries I would have to wear one all the time + a bullet proof vest. Maybe if I was head down in a peloton or MTBing down a rocky path I would reconsider my position.
02-14-17, 05:51 AM
#2517
Senior Member
02-14-17, 07:54 AM
#2518
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Just look at the poll. All but about 15% wear helmets all or most of the time. IMO that is a good thing. Even if they only prevent road rash to the head, that is a good thing.
02-14-17, 08:17 AM
#2519
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I don't want to become emotionally vested in it either way so I allow myself the deliberate choice. The only thing I feel strongly about in this issue is in opposing governments and other groups from taking that choice away.
02-14-17, 09:05 AM
#2520
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In before the move to A&S.
Seriously though, having been involved in multiple crashes that involved landing on my head, you won't get me to give up my helmet. I do think the article makes a good point about city biking though. When a bicycle is used for city transportation, low speeds are significantly more acceptable than for, say, a suburban commute of 10+ miles each way. I think if people are riding sensibly around the city at a slow speed it's probably OK not to have a helmet.
Of course, the premise that helmets are holding back U.S. cycling transportation share is completely contrary to the reality of U.S. transportation characteristics. Helmet use might hold back the rate at which people take 3-5 mile trips in good weather over flat terrain, but most people aren't making that sort of trip. People traveling 10+ miles to their destination aren't likely to just hop on a bike and go, making the whole trip at low speed, and arriving at their destination fresh and presentable.
Seriously though, having been involved in multiple crashes that involved landing on my head, you won't get me to give up my helmet. I do think the article makes a good point about city biking though. When a bicycle is used for city transportation, low speeds are significantly more acceptable than for, say, a suburban commute of 10+ miles each way. I think if people are riding sensibly around the city at a slow speed it's probably OK not to have a helmet.
Of course, the premise that helmets are holding back U.S. cycling transportation share is completely contrary to the reality of U.S. transportation characteristics. Helmet use might hold back the rate at which people take 3-5 mile trips in good weather over flat terrain, but most people aren't making that sort of trip. People traveling 10+ miles to their destination aren't likely to just hop on a bike and go, making the whole trip at low speed, and arriving at their destination fresh and presentable.
Or any other pressure on that choice, like 'you should wear a helmet'. Personally I think it's quite rude to interfere in any way with a personal choice like that, if I see someone wearing helmet I'm not saying anything about either, allthough it might be more justified.
02-14-17, 09:40 AM
#2521
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A few years back, my girlfriend failed to see a sizable pothole, bam boom she hit it at full speed. To my horror I saw her and the bike go crashing head over heels like a gymnast.....landing oh around 15 feet from the pothole.
Her helmet sustained a big big gash on the side ..... she only had ugly scratches on her arms........
Though I believed she sustained some kind of brain injury as she kinda slowed down stocking our closet with shoes
On the serious note...... her helmet did its job....
02-14-17, 10:51 AM
#2522
Senior Member
So not all the time
I don't wear a helmet on my commute, I have fallen off my bike about once every 3000 miles or so and never hit my head. A helmet may mitigate some serious injuries, but for my commute of 3 miles I can live with the risk. If I was that worried about injuries I would have to wear one all the time + a bullet proof vest. Maybe if I was head down in a peloton or MTBing down a rocky path I would reconsider my position.
I don't wear a helmet on my commute, I have fallen off my bike about once every 3000 miles or so and never hit my head. A helmet may mitigate some serious injuries, but for my commute of 3 miles I can live with the risk. If I was that worried about injuries I would have to wear one all the time + a bullet proof vest. Maybe if I was head down in a peloton or MTBing down a rocky path I would reconsider my position.
02-14-17, 11:00 AM
#2523
Senior Member
Do you bike inside of a steel cage? If so (pics please!), how does your helmet prevent you from being thrown out of that cage in a collision?
02-14-17, 11:07 AM
#2524
Senior Member
J.
02-14-17, 11:57 AM
#2525
Senior Member
Was my attempt at sarcasm (we need a sarcasm font). I wear a helmet all the time for any ride just like I wear a seat belt all the time for any length of drive. Helmets are like seat belts - when you need one, you need it badly and there is no way to predict when you will need one.
J.
J.
1. Driving a car without a seat belt but with a bicycle helmet on your head
2. Riding a bike sans helmet but with the equivalent of a steel cage and seat belt for protection