Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Latest Tesla self-driving software version doesn't stop for pedestrian in crossing

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Latest Tesla self-driving software version doesn't stop for pedestrian in crossing

Old 06-12-23, 05:41 PM
  #101  
jon c. 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,740
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1532 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 934 Times in 522 Posts
Originally Posted by himespau
But, but, but, that tactic worked so well for him when he "did his own research" regarding not having to wear masks or vaccines when nobody called him on it, so you should just let him have his way here too.
Do you have a cite for that?

Of course not. Make up whatever you wish for forward your position and contend that it's true.

Do you believe there is no valid scientific evidence for masks and vaccines? If so, you aren't worth bothering with. If not, it's a rather absurd analogy. Or you're just trolling.

(edit: the irony here just occurred to me. my objection is to accepting as science those opinions not supported by strong data and investigation. if as a society we become more accustomed to accepting this then everyone can "follow the science" to support whatever they wish to believe. and we've seen the result of that.)

Prof. Cummings is acting as an advocate. She is forwarding opinion, not science. There is not sufficient data to reach these conclusions and everyone in this discussion knows that. The story on which the thread is based admits that. But you want to believe what she says is data based science so you contend that it is absent any factual evidence.

I take no issue with Prof. Cummings opinions. Likely substantially correct IMO. But I don't confuse opinions with science. It's isn't yet possible to obtain data good enough to draw conclusions and until there is we shouldn't pretend there is.

But I recognize there's no point in continuing to argue with ideologues. Have at it children.

Last edited by jon c.; 06-12-23 at 05:51 PM.
jon c. is online now  
Old 06-12-23, 06:01 PM
  #102  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,477
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4072 Post(s)
Liked 2,811 Times in 1,705 Posts
Of course vaccines are efficacious, but so many people made the same argument that because I don't have the time to explain the basic fundamentals of molecular biology and immunology to you, the fact that I'm a professor of microbiology with many, many years experience in the field is just an appeal to authority fallacy and my word about vaccines working has no more strength than some random idiot's word that they don't because he once read something on facebook that said they didn't.

Any time you try to say your word on something you are not an expert on is worth just as much as the word of someone who is an expert in that field because they don't take the time to spell out all the little details to you because of "appeal to authority fallacy" you are creating an even bigger logical fallacy as you fall into the depths of Dunning Kruger.
__________________
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?), 1990 Concorde Aquila(hit by car while riding), others in build queue "when I get the time"





himespau is online now  
Old 06-12-23, 06:26 PM
  #103  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8185 Post(s)
Liked 9,087 Times in 5,052 Posts
Originally Posted by jon c.

Prof. Cummings is acting as an advocate. She is forwarding opinion, not science. There is not sufficient data to reach these conclusions and everyone in this discussion knows that. The story on which the thread is based admits that. But you want to believe what she says is data based science so you contend that it is absent any factual evidence.

I take no issue with Prof. Cummings opinions. Likely substantially correct IMO. But I don't confuse opinions with science. It's isn't yet possible to obtain data good enough to draw conclusions and until there is we shouldn't pretend there is.

But I recognize there's no point in continuing to argue with ideologues. Have at it children.

This is so tortured, it's funny. The issue is that Tesla put this technology on 400,000 cars in the absence of data that showed it was safe. When the data emerges that shows Tesla has been concealing the actual casualties and fatalities, you go on about people needing to prove it's not safe. Nonsense. Your admission is basically that she's probably right but we're all fools to take her more seriously than you because she didn't publish the confidence interval in a newspaper article.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 06-12-23, 06:41 PM
  #104  
JW Fas
Cop Magnet
 
JW Fas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 306
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked 247 Times in 114 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
This is so tortured, it's funny. The issue is that Tesla put this technology on 400,000 cars in the absence of data that showed it was safe.
And they have the gall to charge $15000 extra for it.
JW Fas is offline  
Old 06-13-23, 04:48 AM
  #105  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8185 Post(s)
Liked 9,087 Times in 5,052 Posts
r

Originally Posted by JW Fas
And they have the gall to charge $15000 extra for it.


After removing sensing capability due to shortages. The fan boys don't want to talk about that part, it's absolutely indefensible.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 06-13-23, 10:01 AM
  #106  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,850

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,454 Times in 985 Posts
Originally Posted by JW Fas
And they have the gall to charge $15000 extra for it.
This over the top salesmanship does provide evidence that opportunities still exist for selling "stuff" and dreams to suckers who are born every minute. Seems to be a lot of bedazzled and/or gullible tech bros and Musk/Tesla cultists with more cents than sense.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 06-13-23, 11:32 PM
  #107  
tungsten
Full Member
 
tungsten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 247

Bikes: 1962 Cinelli Mod. "B" / 1988 Bailey 531c /2 - '92 Rocky Vertexs' / Obed Baseline / Transition Scout/ Raleigh Willard

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked 64 Times in 41 Posts
https://www.commondreams.org/news/te...hes-and-deaths
tungsten is offline  
Old 06-15-23, 03:38 AM
  #108  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 7,068
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3618 Post(s)
Liked 3,909 Times in 2,474 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
This over the top salesmanship does provide evidence that opportunities still exist for selling "stuff" and dreams to suckers who are born every minute. Seems to be a lot of bedazzled and/or gullible tech bros and Musk/Tesla cultists with more cents than sense.
Only about 20% of North American Tesla owners are "suckers" and that figure drops to around 10% worldwide.

The vast majority of Tesla owners are not really the "Musk/Tesla cultists" that you are mocking. Your attitude makes any sensible balanced discussion of the pros and cons of FSD impossible. But I do agree (like 90% of Tesla drivers worldwide) that FSD isn't worth $15k.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 06-15-23, 04:03 AM
  #109  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 7,068
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3618 Post(s)
Liked 3,909 Times in 2,474 Posts
Great click-bait headline. But the graph just looks like a Tesla sales chart. Is there any attempt at normalising the data to take account of vehicle numbers/performance/miles driven? I'm all for critical data, but this looks like journalistic bs to me.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 06-15-23, 07:58 AM
  #110  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,850

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,454 Times in 985 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
Only about 20% of North American Tesla owners are "suckers" and that figure drops to around 10% worldwide.

The vast majority of Tesla owners are not really the "Musk/Tesla cultists" that you are mocking. Your attitude makes any sensible balanced discussion of the pros and cons of FSD impossible. But I do agree (like 90% of Tesla drivers worldwide) that FSD isn't worth $15k.
FSD has not been available "worldwide."
Tesla FSD Beta takes its first steps outside of North America
Extract:
Tesla FSD Beta has officially taken its first steps outside of North America, with the software making its way to cars in Australia, Germany, and Belgium.

Tesla owners are still waiting for the long-promised full self-driving capability, but in some markets, like in Europe, the Pacific, and Asia, owners donít even have access to FSD Beta.
I'd say that declaring that 20% of a Tesla owners are "suckers" for buying FSD despite its flaws and lack of value is acknowledging the unpleasant truth that this is evidence that there Seems to be a lot of bedazzled and/or gullible tech bros and Musk/Tesla cultists with more cents than sense.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 06-15-23, 08:53 AM
  #111  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 7,068
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3618 Post(s)
Liked 3,909 Times in 2,474 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
FSD has not been available "worldwide."
Tesla FSD Beta takes its first steps outside of North America
Extract:

I'd say that declaring that 20% of a Tesla owners are "suckers" for buying FSD despite its flaws and lack of value is acknowledging the unpleasant truth that this is evidence that there Seems to be a lot of bedazzled and/or gullible tech bros and Musk/Tesla cultists with more cents than sense.
Did you notice I put "suckers" in quotation marks? It was actually your declaration, not mine. I was just pointing out that a large majority of Teslas on the road don't actually have FSD and that I don't personally think FSD is worth the cost. Anyway I see you are just a sore Tesla troll, which makes any discussion a complete waste of time.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 06-15-23, 11:19 AM
  #112  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,850

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,454 Times in 985 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
Did you notice I put "suckers" in quotation marks? It was actually your declaration, not mine. I was just pointing out that a large majority of Teslas on the road don't actually have FSD and that I don't personally think FSD is worth the cost. Anyway I see you are just a sore Tesla troll, which makes any discussion a complete waste of time.
Got it. All commentary, articles, or posts that reflect the negative aspects of Tesla's dangerous and irresponsible testing of cars operated by wonky "beta" software on public highways and street is the product of trolls spouting fake news.

I suggest you seek the discussion you seek on websites that that are favored by Tesla-stans where no negative shade is allowed to be cast (without a torrent of howls of "fake news!" "troll!" or "Tesla shorts!") on the capabilities, usefulness and future potential of Tesla so-called "self driving" features.

In the meantime the general public, to include pedestrians, bicyclists and other motorists are just unwilling (as well as willing Tesla owners) potential crash test dummies. All are being being exposed to unnecessary added risk from so-called self-driving vehicles being tested on the street under the control of "beta" software and untrained testers (who maybe are closely monitoring and correcting system errors), all for the benefit of amusing some Tesla owners and boosting the ego of the Tesla CEO.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 06-15-23, 12:27 PM
  #113  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 7,068
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3618 Post(s)
Liked 3,909 Times in 2,474 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Got it. All commentary, articles, or posts that reflect the negative aspects of Tesla's dangerous and irresponsible testing of cars operated by wonky "beta" software on public highways and street is the product of trolls spouting fake news.

I suggest you seek the discussion you seek on websites that that are favored by Tesla-stans where no negative shade is allowed to be cast (without a torrent of howls of "fake news!" "troll!" or "Tesla shorts!") on the capabilities, usefulness and future potential of Tesla so-called "self driving" features.

In the meantime the general public, to include pedestrians, bicyclists and other motorists are just unwilling (as well as willing Tesla owners) potential crash test dummies. All are being being exposed to unnecessary added risk from so-called self-driving vehicles being tested on the street under the control of "beta" software and untrained testers (who maybe are closely monitoring and correcting system errors), all for the benefit of amusing some Tesla owners and boosting the ego of the Tesla CEO.
The trolling is from your persistent derogatory remarks about Tesla owners. It adds nothing to the discussion other than demonstrating your spite and arrogance.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 06-18-23, 11:13 AM
  #114  
JW Fas
Cop Magnet
 
JW Fas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 306
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked 247 Times in 114 Posts
This tweet seemed apropos.

JW Fas is offline  
Likes For JW Fas:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.