Tires- Tube or tubeless?
06-01-23, 02:00 PM
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From what I've seen, most of the drama is from anti-tubeless folks ranting about something that they have zero experience with, but claim to know everything about. Do you make the same rants about tubeless car or motorcycle tires?
I've been riding bikes for more than a few years, under lots of different conditions. I understand the options available to me, and the pros and cons of each tire type. Tubeless is my informed choice.
I've been riding bikes for more than a few years, under lots of different conditions. I understand the options available to me, and the pros and cons of each tire type. Tubeless is my informed choice.
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06-01-23, 02:00 PM
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06-01-23, 02:06 PM
#53
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I had 12000kms with tubeles without a puncture, change 2 times the sealant (twice in a year)
I will keep using tubeless, I was thinking on test the new china tubolites (ridenow) but I prefer to keep with the tubeless.
I will keep using tubeless, I was thinking on test the new china tubolites (ridenow) but I prefer to keep with the tubeless.
06-01-23, 02:12 PM
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tubeless for me has been totally devoid of drama. I haven't convinced myself to use it on 32mm tires yet, only larger, still a level of superstition on my part. And also the supply chain interfered with the switch. I do have tubeless ready rims and they are taped, just haven't gotten tires yet.
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06-01-23, 10:43 PM
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Motorcycles adopted tubeless technology because the speeds involved and the danger of blowouts at those speeds made it a wise development. Sealant is not used in motorcycle tubeless tires. They are highly self sealing by construction, they are highly flat resistant by construction. When, if, they fail, trained professionals need to take over. As God intended. But it ended the era of DIY roadside flat repairs. Now motorcyclists need AAA on speed dial just like cagers. More so. Most streetbikes cannot carry doughnuts! Neither can bicycles. Sadly, the lower forces involved in bicycle tubeless bead breaking and plug insertion and etc. are just enough within reach that adopters are willing to risk heading out with tubeless unsupported. I wouldn't know the exact ratio of success to failure but for the kind of riding I do Mon -Fri, failure is not an option.
At any speed above 12mph air resistance is the totality of what is keeping a cyclist from going any faster. It is a close top speed contest between a speedskater on ice in full tuck, and a road cyclist on level ground in full tuck, but in neither case does it get much faster than ~30mph+ for a trained competition level athlete. Put that same athlete behind a motorpaced wind shield and they are going to hit well over 120mph. So, tubed vs tubeless re: rolling resistance? <chortle> Pinch flats? I don't run tubeless and I've never pinch flatted ever, in decades of daily riding. Comfort? Seriously? When you are hammering for the Strava KOM is comfort really a thing? How 'comfortable' exactly does anyone expect to be on a bicycle?
Bontrager H2 2.0" didn't flat for me until their 5th year of 7d/wk urban riding. In the same riding Kenda Kwest flat 2x/dy! Schwalbe Big Apple, weekly. Schwalbe Big Apple with Mr. Tuffy Liner, bi-monthly (from the liner chafing the tube) Schwalbe Marathon, roughly quarterly. I have some Bontrager H2 Hardcase in 700c x 25 and to some they are garden hose, but you know what? If you beat me with your amazing tubeless set up it won't be because of that. It will be because you are 30y.o. and I am 65. But my tire is NOT going to flat. I mean that. I don't even carry tire levers when I am rocking the Bonties. So your tubeless rig better not even lose 10psi of pressure on challenge day because if it does, it's going to be real close. And if it loses all pressure and you have to go plug it, or put in a tube, or whatever other ju ju y'all's have to do when spit happens, it's all over.
When people race cyclocross or ride gravel they don't worry about steel belt tire wires getting into their tires. Tubeless were originally MTB kit. Makes more sense there. Little or no glass. Less man made junk. Still, if the tires are puncturing and sealant is needed to prevent air loss, then the tire has failed. I just don't feel like gambling that the light, supple, amazing gravel ride tubeless will have a good day today and not let me down. I'd rather use a heavier, slower, tire and have peace of mind. When such tires are made in tubeless format, call me. I might answer.
06-02-23, 06:35 AM
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Of course not. Tubeless car and motorcycle tires are mature technology. And you don't get a choice about it anyway. I was leasing a Passat around 20 years ago and got a flat. Changed it for the spare 'thing' and finished the trip. The dealer was very upset that I didn't call for roadside assistance. As if ... Automotive tubeless tires are not user serviceable. You need hydraulic tools to break the bead. Hydraulic tools to set the plugs. A significant jack to raise the car. Their service vehicle wasn't going to repair my tire they were going to do just what I did. It would take them 10 minutes while it took me 20 but I was going to have to wait 90 minutes for them to get to me.
Motorcycles adopted tubeless technology because the speeds involved and the danger of blowouts at those speeds made it a wise development. Sealant is not used in motorcycle tubeless tires. They are highly self sealing by construction, they are highly flat resistant by construction. When, if, they fail, trained professionals need to take over. As God intended. But it ended the era of DIY roadside flat repairs. Now motorcyclists need AAA on speed dial just like cagers. More so. Most streetbikes cannot carry doughnuts! Neither can bicycles. Sadly, the lower forces involved in bicycle tubeless bead breaking and plug insertion and etc. are just enough within reach that adopters are willing to risk heading out with tubeless unsupported. I wouldn't know the exact ratio of success to failure but for the kind of riding I do Mon -Fri, failure is not an option.
At any speed above 12mph air resistance is the totality of what is keeping a cyclist from going any faster. It is a close top speed contest between a speedskater on ice in full tuck, and a road cyclist on level ground in full tuck, but in neither case does it get much faster than ~30mph+ for a trained competition level athlete. Put that same athlete behind a motorpaced wind shield and they are going to hit well over 120mph. So, tubed vs tubeless re: rolling resistance? <chortle> Pinch flats? I don't run tubeless and I've never pinch flatted ever, in decades of daily riding. Comfort? Seriously? When you are hammering for the Strava KOM is comfort really a thing? How 'comfortable' exactly does anyone expect to be on a bicycle?
Bontrager H2 2.0" didn't flat for me until their 5th year of 7d/wk urban riding. In the same riding Kenda Kwest flat 2x/dy! Schwalbe Big Apple, weekly. Schwalbe Big Apple with Mr. Tuffy Liner, bi-monthly (from the liner chafing the tube) Schwalbe Marathon, roughly quarterly. I have some Bontrager H2 Hardcase in 700c x 25 and to some they are garden hose, but you know what? If you beat me with your amazing tubeless set up it won't be because of that. It will be because you are 30y.o. and I am 65. But my tire is NOT going to flat. I mean that. I don't even carry tire levers when I am rocking the Bonties. So your tubeless rig better not even lose 10psi of pressure on challenge day because if it does, it's going to be real close. And if it loses all pressure and you have to go plug it, or put in a tube, or whatever other ju ju y'all's have to do when spit happens, it's all over.
When people race cyclocross or ride gravel they don't worry about steel belt tire wires getting into their tires. Tubeless were originally MTB kit. Makes more sense there. Little or no glass. Less man made junk. Still, if the tires are puncturing and sealant is needed to prevent air loss, then the tire has failed. I just don't feel like gambling that the light, supple, amazing gravel ride tubeless will have a good day today and not let me down. I'd rather use a heavier, slower, tire and have peace of mind. When such tires are made in tubeless format, call me. I might answer.
Motorcycles adopted tubeless technology because the speeds involved and the danger of blowouts at those speeds made it a wise development. Sealant is not used in motorcycle tubeless tires. They are highly self sealing by construction, they are highly flat resistant by construction. When, if, they fail, trained professionals need to take over. As God intended. But it ended the era of DIY roadside flat repairs. Now motorcyclists need AAA on speed dial just like cagers. More so. Most streetbikes cannot carry doughnuts! Neither can bicycles. Sadly, the lower forces involved in bicycle tubeless bead breaking and plug insertion and etc. are just enough within reach that adopters are willing to risk heading out with tubeless unsupported. I wouldn't know the exact ratio of success to failure but for the kind of riding I do Mon -Fri, failure is not an option.
At any speed above 12mph air resistance is the totality of what is keeping a cyclist from going any faster. It is a close top speed contest between a speedskater on ice in full tuck, and a road cyclist on level ground in full tuck, but in neither case does it get much faster than ~30mph+ for a trained competition level athlete. Put that same athlete behind a motorpaced wind shield and they are going to hit well over 120mph. So, tubed vs tubeless re: rolling resistance? <chortle> Pinch flats? I don't run tubeless and I've never pinch flatted ever, in decades of daily riding. Comfort? Seriously? When you are hammering for the Strava KOM is comfort really a thing? How 'comfortable' exactly does anyone expect to be on a bicycle?
Bontrager H2 2.0" didn't flat for me until their 5th year of 7d/wk urban riding. In the same riding Kenda Kwest flat 2x/dy! Schwalbe Big Apple, weekly. Schwalbe Big Apple with Mr. Tuffy Liner, bi-monthly (from the liner chafing the tube) Schwalbe Marathon, roughly quarterly. I have some Bontrager H2 Hardcase in 700c x 25 and to some they are garden hose, but you know what? If you beat me with your amazing tubeless set up it won't be because of that. It will be because you are 30y.o. and I am 65. But my tire is NOT going to flat. I mean that. I don't even carry tire levers when I am rocking the Bonties. So your tubeless rig better not even lose 10psi of pressure on challenge day because if it does, it's going to be real close. And if it loses all pressure and you have to go plug it, or put in a tube, or whatever other ju ju y'all's have to do when spit happens, it's all over.
When people race cyclocross or ride gravel they don't worry about steel belt tire wires getting into their tires. Tubeless were originally MTB kit. Makes more sense there. Little or no glass. Less man made junk. Still, if the tires are puncturing and sealant is needed to prevent air loss, then the tire has failed. I just don't feel like gambling that the light, supple, amazing gravel ride tubeless will have a good day today and not let me down. I'd rather use a heavier, slower, tire and have peace of mind. When such tires are made in tubeless format, call me. I might answer.
06-02-23, 09:31 AM
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Of course not. Tubeless car and motorcycle tires are mature technology. And you don't get a choice about it anyway. I was leasing a Passat around 20 years ago and got a flat. Changed it for the spare 'thing' and finished the trip. The dealer was very upset that I didn't call for roadside assistance. As if ... Automotive tubeless tires are not user serviceable. You need hydraulic tools to break the bead. Hydraulic tools to set the plugs. A significant jack to raise the car. Their service vehicle wasn't going to repair my tire they were going to do just what I did. It would take them 10 minutes while it took me 20 but I was going to have to wait 90 minutes for them to get to me.
Motorcycles adopted tubeless technology because the speeds involved and the danger of blowouts at those speeds made it a wise development. Sealant is not used in motorcycle tubeless tires. They are highly self sealing by construction, they are highly flat resistant by construction. When, if, they fail, trained professionals need to take over. As God intended. But it ended the era of DIY roadside flat repairs. Now motorcyclists need AAA on speed dial just like cagers. More so. Most streetbikes cannot carry doughnuts! Neither can bicycles. Sadly, the lower forces involved in bicycle tubeless bead breaking and plug insertion and etc. are just enough within reach that adopters are willing to risk heading out with tubeless unsupported. I wouldn't know the exact ratio of success to failure but for the kind of riding I do Mon -Fri, failure is not an option.
At any speed above 12mph air resistance is the totality of what is keeping a cyclist from going any faster. It is a close top speed contest between a speedskater on ice in full tuck, and a road cyclist on level ground in full tuck, but in neither case does it get much faster than ~30mph+ for a trained competition level athlete. Put that same athlete behind a motorpaced wind shield and they are going to hit well over 120mph. So, tubed vs tubeless re: rolling resistance? <chortle> Pinch flats? I don't run tubeless and I've never pinch flatted ever, in decades of daily riding. Comfort? Seriously? When you are hammering for the Strava KOM is comfort really a thing? How 'comfortable' exactly does anyone expect to be on a bicycle?
Bontrager H2 2.0" didn't flat for me until their 5th year of 7d/wk urban riding. In the same riding Kenda Kwest flat 2x/dy! Schwalbe Big Apple, weekly. Schwalbe Big Apple with Mr. Tuffy Liner, bi-monthly (from the liner chafing the tube) Schwalbe Marathon, roughly quarterly. I have some Bontrager H2 Hardcase in 700c x 25 and to some they are garden hose, but you know what? If you beat me with your amazing tubeless set up it won't be because of that. It will be because you are 30y.o. and I am 65. But my tire is NOT going to flat. I mean that. I don't even carry tire levers when I am rocking the Bonties. So your tubeless rig better not even lose 10psi of pressure on challenge day because if it does, it's going to be real close. And if it loses all pressure and you have to go plug it, or put in a tube, or whatever other ju ju y'all's have to do when spit happens, it's all over.
When people race cyclocross or ride gravel they don't worry about steel belt tire wires getting into their tires. Tubeless were originally MTB kit. Makes more sense there. Little or no glass. Less man made junk. Still, if the tires are puncturing and sealant is needed to prevent air loss, then the tire has failed. I just don't feel like gambling that the light, supple, amazing gravel ride tubeless will have a good day today and not let me down. I'd rather use a heavier, slower, tire and have peace of mind. When such tires are made in tubeless format, call me. I might answer.
Motorcycles adopted tubeless technology because the speeds involved and the danger of blowouts at those speeds made it a wise development. Sealant is not used in motorcycle tubeless tires. They are highly self sealing by construction, they are highly flat resistant by construction. When, if, they fail, trained professionals need to take over. As God intended. But it ended the era of DIY roadside flat repairs. Now motorcyclists need AAA on speed dial just like cagers. More so. Most streetbikes cannot carry doughnuts! Neither can bicycles. Sadly, the lower forces involved in bicycle tubeless bead breaking and plug insertion and etc. are just enough within reach that adopters are willing to risk heading out with tubeless unsupported. I wouldn't know the exact ratio of success to failure but for the kind of riding I do Mon -Fri, failure is not an option.
At any speed above 12mph air resistance is the totality of what is keeping a cyclist from going any faster. It is a close top speed contest between a speedskater on ice in full tuck, and a road cyclist on level ground in full tuck, but in neither case does it get much faster than ~30mph+ for a trained competition level athlete. Put that same athlete behind a motorpaced wind shield and they are going to hit well over 120mph. So, tubed vs tubeless re: rolling resistance? <chortle> Pinch flats? I don't run tubeless and I've never pinch flatted ever, in decades of daily riding. Comfort? Seriously? When you are hammering for the Strava KOM is comfort really a thing? How 'comfortable' exactly does anyone expect to be on a bicycle?
Bontrager H2 2.0" didn't flat for me until their 5th year of 7d/wk urban riding. In the same riding Kenda Kwest flat 2x/dy! Schwalbe Big Apple, weekly. Schwalbe Big Apple with Mr. Tuffy Liner, bi-monthly (from the liner chafing the tube) Schwalbe Marathon, roughly quarterly. I have some Bontrager H2 Hardcase in 700c x 25 and to some they are garden hose, but you know what? If you beat me with your amazing tubeless set up it won't be because of that. It will be because you are 30y.o. and I am 65. But my tire is NOT going to flat. I mean that. I don't even carry tire levers when I am rocking the Bonties. So your tubeless rig better not even lose 10psi of pressure on challenge day because if it does, it's going to be real close. And if it loses all pressure and you have to go plug it, or put in a tube, or whatever other ju ju y'all's have to do when spit happens, it's all over.
When people race cyclocross or ride gravel they don't worry about steel belt tire wires getting into their tires. Tubeless were originally MTB kit. Makes more sense there. Little or no glass. Less man made junk. Still, if the tires are puncturing and sealant is needed to prevent air loss, then the tire has failed. I just don't feel like gambling that the light, supple, amazing gravel ride tubeless will have a good day today and not let me down. I'd rather use a heavier, slower, tire and have peace of mind. When such tires are made in tubeless format, call me. I might answer.
06-02-23, 09:57 AM
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Of course not. Tubeless car and motorcycle tires are mature technology. And you don't get a choice about it anyway. I was leasing a Passat around 20 years ago and got a flat. Changed it for the spare 'thing' and finished the trip. The dealer was very upset that I didn't call for roadside assistance. As if ... Automotive tubeless tires are not user serviceable. You need hydraulic tools to break the bead. Hydraulic tools to set the plugs. A significant jack to raise the car. Their service vehicle wasn't going to repair my tire they were going to do just what I did. It would take them 10 minutes while it took me 20 but I was going to have to wait 90 minutes for them to get to me.
Motorcycles adopted tubeless technology because the speeds involved and the danger of blowouts at those speeds made it a wise development. Sealant is not used in motorcycle tubeless tires. They are highly self sealing by construction, they are highly flat resistant by construction. When, if, they fail, trained professionals need to take over. As God intended. But it ended the era of DIY roadside flat repairs. Now motorcyclists need AAA on speed dial just like cagers. More so. Most streetbikes cannot carry doughnuts! Neither can bicycles. Sadly, the lower forces involved in bicycle tubeless bead breaking and plug insertion and etc. are just enough within reach that adopters are willing to risk heading out with tubeless unsupported. I wouldn't know the exact ratio of success to failure but for the kind of riding I do Mon -Fri, failure is not an option.
At any speed above 12mph air resistance is the totality of what is keeping a cyclist from going any faster. It is a close top speed contest between a speedskater on ice in full tuck, and a road cyclist on level ground in full tuck, but in neither case does it get much faster than ~30mph+ for a trained competition level athlete. Put that same athlete behind a motorpaced wind shield and they are going to hit well over 120mph. So, tubed vs tubeless re: rolling resistance? <chortle> Pinch flats? I don't run tubeless and I've never pinch flatted ever, in decades of daily riding. Comfort? Seriously? When you are hammering for the Strava KOM is comfort really a thing? How 'comfortable' exactly does anyone expect to be on a bicycle?
Bontrager H2 2.0" didn't flat for me until their 5th year of 7d/wk urban riding. In the same riding Kenda Kwest flat 2x/dy! Schwalbe Big Apple, weekly. Schwalbe Big Apple with Mr. Tuffy Liner, bi-monthly (from the liner chafing the tube) Schwalbe Marathon, roughly quarterly. I have some Bontrager H2 Hardcase in 700c x 25 and to some they are garden hose, but you know what? If you beat me with your amazing tubeless set up it won't be because of that. It will be because you are 30y.o. and I am 65. But my tire is NOT going to flat. I mean that. I don't even carry tire levers when I am rocking the Bonties. So your tubeless rig better not even lose 10psi of pressure on challenge day because if it does, it's going to be real close. And if it loses all pressure and you have to go plug it, or put in a tube, or whatever other ju ju y'all's have to do when spit happens, it's all over.
When people race cyclocross or ride gravel they don't worry about steel belt tire wires getting into their tires. Tubeless were originally MTB kit. Makes more sense there. Little or no glass. Less man made junk. Still, if the tires are puncturing and sealant is needed to prevent air loss, then the tire has failed. I just don't feel like gambling that the light, supple, amazing gravel ride tubeless will have a good day today and not let me down. I'd rather use a heavier, slower, tire and have peace of mind. When such tires are made in tubeless format, call me. I might answer.
Motorcycles adopted tubeless technology because the speeds involved and the danger of blowouts at those speeds made it a wise development. Sealant is not used in motorcycle tubeless tires. They are highly self sealing by construction, they are highly flat resistant by construction. When, if, they fail, trained professionals need to take over. As God intended. But it ended the era of DIY roadside flat repairs. Now motorcyclists need AAA on speed dial just like cagers. More so. Most streetbikes cannot carry doughnuts! Neither can bicycles. Sadly, the lower forces involved in bicycle tubeless bead breaking and plug insertion and etc. are just enough within reach that adopters are willing to risk heading out with tubeless unsupported. I wouldn't know the exact ratio of success to failure but for the kind of riding I do Mon -Fri, failure is not an option.
At any speed above 12mph air resistance is the totality of what is keeping a cyclist from going any faster. It is a close top speed contest between a speedskater on ice in full tuck, and a road cyclist on level ground in full tuck, but in neither case does it get much faster than ~30mph+ for a trained competition level athlete. Put that same athlete behind a motorpaced wind shield and they are going to hit well over 120mph. So, tubed vs tubeless re: rolling resistance? <chortle> Pinch flats? I don't run tubeless and I've never pinch flatted ever, in decades of daily riding. Comfort? Seriously? When you are hammering for the Strava KOM is comfort really a thing? How 'comfortable' exactly does anyone expect to be on a bicycle?
Bontrager H2 2.0" didn't flat for me until their 5th year of 7d/wk urban riding. In the same riding Kenda Kwest flat 2x/dy! Schwalbe Big Apple, weekly. Schwalbe Big Apple with Mr. Tuffy Liner, bi-monthly (from the liner chafing the tube) Schwalbe Marathon, roughly quarterly. I have some Bontrager H2 Hardcase in 700c x 25 and to some they are garden hose, but you know what? If you beat me with your amazing tubeless set up it won't be because of that. It will be because you are 30y.o. and I am 65. But my tire is NOT going to flat. I mean that. I don't even carry tire levers when I am rocking the Bonties. So your tubeless rig better not even lose 10psi of pressure on challenge day because if it does, it's going to be real close. And if it loses all pressure and you have to go plug it, or put in a tube, or whatever other ju ju y'all's have to do when spit happens, it's all over.
When people race cyclocross or ride gravel they don't worry about steel belt tire wires getting into their tires. Tubeless were originally MTB kit. Makes more sense there. Little or no glass. Less man made junk. Still, if the tires are puncturing and sealant is needed to prevent air loss, then the tire has failed. I just don't feel like gambling that the light, supple, amazing gravel ride tubeless will have a good day today and not let me down. I'd rather use a heavier, slower, tire and have peace of mind. When such tires are made in tubeless format, call me. I might answer.
If you're happy running tubed tires, cool. Be happy. No one is criticizing you for your choice. Also be aware that your experiences are not necessarily the same for everyone else, and it sounds like your needs/preferences for a road tire are quite different that my needs/preferences. I really don't understand why you are so worked up about my decision that doesn't affect you at all.
If I beat you? Challenge day?...What the hell are you talking about??? Not that it matters at all, but I'm not 30. However, I did do my first bike race more than 30 years ago.
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06-02-23, 11:56 AM
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Of course not. Tubeless car and motorcycle tires are mature technology. And you don't get a choice about it anyway. I was leasing a Passat around 20 years ago and got a flat. Changed it for the spare 'thing' and finished the trip. The dealer was very upset that I didn't call for roadside assistance. As if ... Automotive tubeless tires are not user serviceable. You need hydraulic tools to break the bead. Hydraulic tools to set the plugs. A significant jack to raise the car. Their service vehicle wasn't going to repair my tire they were going to do just what I did. It would take them 10 minutes while it took me 20 but I was going to have to wait 90 minutes for them to get to me.
Motorcycles adopted tubeless technology because the speeds involved and the danger of blowouts at those speeds made it a wise development. Sealant is not used in motorcycle tubeless tires. They are highly self sealing by construction, they are highly flat resistant by construction. When, if, they fail, trained professionals need to take over. As God intended. But it ended the era of DIY roadside flat repairs. Now motorcyclists need AAA on speed dial just like cagers. More so. Most streetbikes cannot carry doughnuts! Neither can bicycles. Sadly, the lower forces involved in bicycle tubeless bead breaking and plug insertion and etc. are just enough within reach that adopters are willing to risk heading out with tubeless unsupported. I wouldn't know the exact ratio of success to failure but for the kind of riding I do Mon -Fri, failure is not an option.
At any speed above 12mph air resistance is the totality of what is keeping a cyclist from going any faster. It is a close top speed contest between a speedskater on ice in full tuck, and a road cyclist on level ground in full tuck, but in neither case does it get much faster than ~30mph+ for a trained competition level athlete. Put that same athlete behind a motorpaced wind shield and they are going to hit well over 120mph. So, tubed vs tubeless re: rolling resistance? <chortle> Pinch flats? I don't run tubeless and I've never pinch flatted ever, in decades of daily riding. Comfort? Seriously? When you are hammering for the Strava KOM is comfort really a thing? How 'comfortable' exactly does anyone expect to be on a bicycle?
Bontrager H2 2.0" didn't flat for me until their 5th year of 7d/wk urban riding. In the same riding Kenda Kwest flat 2x/dy! Schwalbe Big Apple, weekly. Schwalbe Big Apple with Mr. Tuffy Liner, bi-monthly (from the liner chafing the tube) Schwalbe Marathon, roughly quarterly. I have some Bontrager H2 Hardcase in 700c x 25 and to some they are garden hose, but you know what? If you beat me with your amazing tubeless set up it won't be because of that. It will be because you are 30y.o. and I am 65. But my tire is NOT going to flat. I mean that. I don't even carry tire levers when I am rocking the Bonties. So your tubeless rig better not even lose 10psi of pressure on challenge day because if it does, it's going to be real close. And if it loses all pressure and you have to go plug it, or put in a tube, or whatever other ju ju y'all's have to do when spit happens, it's all over.
When people race cyclocross or ride gravel they don't worry about steel belt tire wires getting into their tires. Tubeless were originally MTB kit. Makes more sense there. Little or no glass. Less man made junk. Still, if the tires are puncturing and sealant is needed to prevent air loss, then the tire has failed. I just don't feel like gambling that the light, supple, amazing gravel ride tubeless will have a good day today and not let me down. I'd rather use a heavier, slower, tire and have peace of mind. When such tires are made in tubeless format, call me. I might answer.
Motorcycles adopted tubeless technology because the speeds involved and the danger of blowouts at those speeds made it a wise development. Sealant is not used in motorcycle tubeless tires. They are highly self sealing by construction, they are highly flat resistant by construction. When, if, they fail, trained professionals need to take over. As God intended. But it ended the era of DIY roadside flat repairs. Now motorcyclists need AAA on speed dial just like cagers. More so. Most streetbikes cannot carry doughnuts! Neither can bicycles. Sadly, the lower forces involved in bicycle tubeless bead breaking and plug insertion and etc. are just enough within reach that adopters are willing to risk heading out with tubeless unsupported. I wouldn't know the exact ratio of success to failure but for the kind of riding I do Mon -Fri, failure is not an option.
At any speed above 12mph air resistance is the totality of what is keeping a cyclist from going any faster. It is a close top speed contest between a speedskater on ice in full tuck, and a road cyclist on level ground in full tuck, but in neither case does it get much faster than ~30mph+ for a trained competition level athlete. Put that same athlete behind a motorpaced wind shield and they are going to hit well over 120mph. So, tubed vs tubeless re: rolling resistance? <chortle> Pinch flats? I don't run tubeless and I've never pinch flatted ever, in decades of daily riding. Comfort? Seriously? When you are hammering for the Strava KOM is comfort really a thing? How 'comfortable' exactly does anyone expect to be on a bicycle?
Bontrager H2 2.0" didn't flat for me until their 5th year of 7d/wk urban riding. In the same riding Kenda Kwest flat 2x/dy! Schwalbe Big Apple, weekly. Schwalbe Big Apple with Mr. Tuffy Liner, bi-monthly (from the liner chafing the tube) Schwalbe Marathon, roughly quarterly. I have some Bontrager H2 Hardcase in 700c x 25 and to some they are garden hose, but you know what? If you beat me with your amazing tubeless set up it won't be because of that. It will be because you are 30y.o. and I am 65. But my tire is NOT going to flat. I mean that. I don't even carry tire levers when I am rocking the Bonties. So your tubeless rig better not even lose 10psi of pressure on challenge day because if it does, it's going to be real close. And if it loses all pressure and you have to go plug it, or put in a tube, or whatever other ju ju y'all's have to do when spit happens, it's all over.
When people race cyclocross or ride gravel they don't worry about steel belt tire wires getting into their tires. Tubeless were originally MTB kit. Makes more sense there. Little or no glass. Less man made junk. Still, if the tires are puncturing and sealant is needed to prevent air loss, then the tire has failed. I just don't feel like gambling that the light, supple, amazing gravel ride tubeless will have a good day today and not let me down. I'd rather use a heavier, slower, tire and have peace of mind. When such tires are made in tubeless format, call me. I might answer.
Nobody is trying to convince you to do anything differently. Perhaps you should extend the same courtesy to others.
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06-02-23, 01:11 PM
#62
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Of course not. Tubeless car and motorcycle tires are mature technology. And you don't get a choice about it anyway. I was leasing a Passat around 20 years ago and got a flat. Changed it for the spare 'thing' and finished the trip. The dealer was very upset that I didn't call for roadside assistance. As if ... Automotive tubeless tires are not user serviceable. You need hydraulic tools to break the bead. Hydraulic tools to set the plugs. A significant jack to raise the car. Their service vehicle wasn't going to repair my tire they were going to do just what I did. It would take them 10 minutes while it took me 20 but I was going to have to wait 90 minutes for them to get to me.
Motorcycles adopted tubeless technology because the speeds involved and the danger of blowouts at those speeds made it a wise development. Sealant is not used in motorcycle tubeless tires. They are highly self sealing by construction, they are highly flat resistant by construction. When, if, they fail, trained professionals need to take over. As God intended. But it ended the era of DIY roadside flat repairs. Now motorcyclists need AAA on speed dial just like cagers. More so. Most streetbikes cannot carry doughnuts! Neither can bicycles. Sadly, the lower forces involved in bicycle tubeless bead breaking and plug insertion and etc. are just enough within reach that adopters are willing to risk heading out with tubeless unsupported.
Motorcycles adopted tubeless technology because the speeds involved and the danger of blowouts at those speeds made it a wise development. Sealant is not used in motorcycle tubeless tires. They are highly self sealing by construction, they are highly flat resistant by construction. When, if, they fail, trained professionals need to take over. As God intended. But it ended the era of DIY roadside flat repairs. Now motorcyclists need AAA on speed dial just like cagers. More so. Most streetbikes cannot carry doughnuts! Neither can bicycles. Sadly, the lower forces involved in bicycle tubeless bead breaking and plug insertion and etc. are just enough within reach that adopters are willing to risk heading out with tubeless unsupported.
I wouldn't know the exactratio of success to failure but for the kind of riding I do Mon -Fri, failure is not an option.
At any speed above 12mph air resistance is the totality of what is keeping a cyclist from going any faster. It is a close top speed contest between a speedskater on ice in full tuck, and a road cyclist on level ground in full tuck, but in neither case does it get much faster than ~30mph+ for a trained competition level athlete. Put that same athlete behind a motorpaced wind shield and they are going to hit well over 120mph. So, tubed vs tubeless re: rolling resistance? <chortle> Pinch flats? I don't run tubeless and I've never pinch flatted ever, in decades of daily riding. Comfort? Seriously? When you are hammering for the Strava KOM is comfort really a thing? How 'comfortable' exactly does anyone expect to be on a bicycle?
Bontrager H2 2.0" didn't flat for me until their 5th year of 7d/wk urban riding. In the same riding Kenda Kwest flat 2x/dy! Schwalbe Big Apple, weekly. Schwalbe Big Apple with Mr. Tuffy Liner, bi-monthly (from the liner chafing the tube) Schwalbe Marathon, roughly quarterly. I have some Bontrager H2 Hardcase in 700c x 25 and to some they are garden hose, but you know what? If you beat me with your amazing tubeless set up it won't be because of that. It will be because you are 30y.o. and I am 65. But my tire is NOT going to flat. I mean that. I don't even carry tire levers when I am rocking the Bonties. So your tubeless rig better not even lose 10psi of pressure on challenge day because if it does, it's going to be real close. And if it loses all pressure and you have to go plug it, or put in a tube, or whatever other ju ju y'all's have to do when spit happens, it's all over.
When people race cyclocross or ride gravel they don't worry about steel belt tire wires getting into their tires. Tubeless were originally MTB kit. Makes more sense there. Little or no glass. Less man made junk. Still, if the tires are puncturing and sealant is needed to prevent air loss, then the tire has failed. I just don't feel like gambling that the light, supple, amazing gravel ride tubeless will have a good day today and not let me down. I'd rather use a heavier, slower, tire and have peace of mind. When such tires are made in tubeless format, call me. I might answer.
At any speed above 12mph air resistance is the totality of what is keeping a cyclist from going any faster. It is a close top speed contest between a speedskater on ice in full tuck, and a road cyclist on level ground in full tuck, but in neither case does it get much faster than ~30mph+ for a trained competition level athlete. Put that same athlete behind a motorpaced wind shield and they are going to hit well over 120mph. So, tubed vs tubeless re: rolling resistance? <chortle> Pinch flats? I don't run tubeless and I've never pinch flatted ever, in decades of daily riding. Comfort? Seriously? When you are hammering for the Strava KOM is comfort really a thing? How 'comfortable' exactly does anyone expect to be on a bicycle?
Bontrager H2 2.0" didn't flat for me until their 5th year of 7d/wk urban riding. In the same riding Kenda Kwest flat 2x/dy! Schwalbe Big Apple, weekly. Schwalbe Big Apple with Mr. Tuffy Liner, bi-monthly (from the liner chafing the tube) Schwalbe Marathon, roughly quarterly. I have some Bontrager H2 Hardcase in 700c x 25 and to some they are garden hose, but you know what? If you beat me with your amazing tubeless set up it won't be because of that. It will be because you are 30y.o. and I am 65. But my tire is NOT going to flat. I mean that. I don't even carry tire levers when I am rocking the Bonties. So your tubeless rig better not even lose 10psi of pressure on challenge day because if it does, it's going to be real close. And if it loses all pressure and you have to go plug it, or put in a tube, or whatever other ju ju y'all's have to do when spit happens, it's all over.
When people race cyclocross or ride gravel they don't worry about steel belt tire wires getting into their tires. Tubeless were originally MTB kit. Makes more sense there. Little or no glass. Less man made junk. Still, if the tires are puncturing and sealant is needed to prevent air loss, then the tire has failed. I just don't feel like gambling that the light, supple, amazing gravel ride tubeless will have a good day today and not let me down. I'd rather use a heavier, slower, tire and have peace of mind. When such tires are made in tubeless format, call me. I might answer.
06-02-23, 01:34 PM
#63
Newbie
I have a lot of cyclist friends, always criticize tubeless, and never tried them, its very fustrating hear people talk about something only because they saw or read post or youtube videos about tubeless
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06-02-23, 02:15 PM
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You know, at the core of this statement re: tire levers vs magic, lies the foundation ethos of my thinking about the entire tubeless vs tubed paradigm. Tubeless culture has developed a following of devotees that make the technology work through all manner of art, craft, and when all that fails, force of will, and seize on every triumph as more justification to put the hair shirt on another day and ride. Tell the truth, have you ever seen the sheer amount of ... drama that surrounds the adoption of a tubeless lifestyle duplicated in the tubed tire world?
06-02-23, 02:58 PM
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Previously I have ranted about the aging demographic and the diminishing relevance of this forum, yet I still hang around, comment and preach to a deaf audience, and that's on me. It would be nice to discuss current solutions and ideas without every topic being derailed with some anti-technology screed. For example, I was able to push my GRX 810 2X system to operate seamlessly with an 11-40 cassette but I would like to know if anyone has had success with 11-42. How about experiences with different sealants, I initially loved Silcas product as it was transformative in its ability to plug large punctures but now find the carbon fibres are clumping is this normal, what do others prefer?
Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 06-02-23 at 03:02 PM.
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06-02-23, 03:29 PM
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These forums are ever descending into permanent Luddite territory, with virtually no constructive discussion on current issues and trends. Here are some of the never-ending debates not discussed anywhere in the regular cycling community, whether it's hobbyist, weekly club rider or competitor. It begins with the "Steel is real" crowd believing some mass-produced Columbus tubed lugged frame is the pinnacle of bicycle design and the others are all inferior, then there are the friction shifters, triple chainring, skinny narrow high-pressure tires, tubular over clincher, rim brakes are all you need because they can skid on demand and now tubeless.
Previously I have ranted about the aging demographic and the diminishing relevance of this forum, yet I still hang around, comment and preach to a deaf audience, and that's on me. It would be nice to discuss current solutions and ideas without every topic being derailed with some anti-technology screed. For example, I was able to push my GRX 810 2X system to operate seamlessly with an 11-40 cassette but I would like to know if anyone has had success with 11-42. How about experiences with different sealants, I initially loved Silcas product as it was transformative in its ability to plug large punctures but now find the carbon fibres are clumping is this normal, what do others prefer?
Previously I have ranted about the aging demographic and the diminishing relevance of this forum, yet I still hang around, comment and preach to a deaf audience, and that's on me. It would be nice to discuss current solutions and ideas without every topic being derailed with some anti-technology screed. For example, I was able to push my GRX 810 2X system to operate seamlessly with an 11-40 cassette but I would like to know if anyone has had success with 11-42. How about experiences with different sealants, I initially loved Silcas product as it was transformative in its ability to plug large punctures but now find the carbon fibres are clumping is this normal, what do others prefer?
As for sealant, I've only used Orange Seal Endurance, and haven't yet had a reason to look for an alternate. I have nothing for you on11-40 vs. 11-42 with 2x.
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06-02-23, 03:50 PM
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06-02-23, 07:56 PM
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These forums are ever descending into permanent Luddite territory, with virtually no constructive discussion on current issues and trends. Here are some of the never-ending debates not discussed anywhere in the regular cycling community, whether it's hobbyist, weekly club rider or competitor. It begins with the "Steel is real" crowd believing some mass-produced Columbus tubed lugged frame is the pinnacle of bicycle design and the others are all inferior, then there are the friction shifters, triple chainring, skinny narrow high-pressure tires, tubular over clincher, rim brakes are all you need because they can skid on demand and now tubeless.
Previously I have ranted about the aging demographic and the diminishing relevance of this forum, yet I still hang around, comment and preach to a deaf audience, and that's on me. It would be nice to discuss current solutions and ideas without every topic being derailed with some anti-technology screed. For example, I was able to push my GRX 810 2X system to operate seamlessly with an 11-40 cassette but I would like to know if anyone has had success with 11-42. How about experiences with different sealants, I initially loved Silcas product as it was transformative in its ability to plug large punctures but now find the carbon fibres are clumping is this normal, what do others prefer?
Previously I have ranted about the aging demographic and the diminishing relevance of this forum, yet I still hang around, comment and preach to a deaf audience, and that's on me. It would be nice to discuss current solutions and ideas without every topic being derailed with some anti-technology screed. For example, I was able to push my GRX 810 2X system to operate seamlessly with an 11-40 cassette but I would like to know if anyone has had success with 11-42. How about experiences with different sealants, I initially loved Silcas product as it was transformative in its ability to plug large punctures but now find the carbon fibres are clumping is this normal, what do others prefer?
I use Muc-off sealant, which has worked well for me and is easy to clean off (water soluble). I noticed the tell-tale spattering of it on my seat tube last weekend after it had successfully sealed another puncture without significant loss of pressure. It was quite a big cut too, worst I’ve had this year. I buy the 1 litre bottles supplied with silicon tube to fill through the valve stem.
06-02-23, 09:38 PM
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How many threads are people supposed to start in 4 years? I have a feeling I’m not going to meet the quota.
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06-02-23, 10:06 PM
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I have Conti GP 5000s with light weight tubes and it makes for a very good ride. As you know, they are fast and grip well. I have the tubed variety on another bike and they’re tubeless on a third. Love ‘em.
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06-03-23, 10:00 AM
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Since you seem to have missed it, the point is that he’s complaining about not being able to discuss certain topics. He has the ability to start threads on those very topics, but has not. Which sort of calls into question the credibility of his *****ing (“complaining”).
06-03-23, 10:20 AM
#72
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...without every topic being derailed with some anti-technology screed
Starting a thread doesn't prevent this part from happening
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06-03-23, 10:22 AM
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06-03-23, 10:33 AM
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And can we call this thread a technology thread, but consider it now derailed by a discussion of discussions?
06-03-23, 10:40 AM
#75
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