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Cinelli Supercorsa Sizing advise

Old 06-08-23, 10:29 AM
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smd4
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
Even from my cool emotionless perspective that is as beautiful as a bicycle can be.
You humble me. Thank you.
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Old 06-08-23, 11:39 AM
  #27  
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I mostly go with 3 sizing metrics when choosing a frame these days. Reach, Stack and Horizontal Top Tube. The rest of the metrics are more related to the handling of the bike, the ride quality, etc. I've also heard from certified Retul fitters saying when you fall between two adjacent frame sizes, go with the larger one.

Originally Posted by mpetry912
that's a nice lookin SC you have there, "silver frost" color.

As for sizing, well, every "body" is different. Ben Serotta told me that top tube length is the sizing metric. I don't completely agree, but that's one way.

I look for the "equilateral triangle" angle of arms and body when riding on the bar tops, and legs not over-extended.

but sizing is an art, too complicated a topic to fully cover here.

/markp
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Old 06-08-23, 11:48 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Aero-X
I mostly go with 3 sizing metrics when choosing a frame these days. Reach, Stack and Horizontal Top Tube. The rest of the metrics are more related to the handling of the bike, the ride quality, etc. I've also heard from certified Retul fitters saying when you fall between two adjacent frame sizes, go with the larger one.
Perhaps with current bikes. But classic bikes are literally sized by the length of the seat tube. With classic bikes, "stack height" means something entirely different than what it means today (today's meaning of the word didn't even exist, as far as I know). While bike reviewers BITD might mention their opinions that the top tube was too long or too short in the course of a review, those measurements were usually discounted, because they could easily be accounted for with different length stems. Also, BITD, performance riders would often choose the smaller of two frames if they fell in the middle--allowing for both a lighter and a stiffer frame.

Last edited by smd4; 06-08-23 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 06-08-23, 08:08 PM
  #29  
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What's your saddle height on your 58cm SC?

Originally Posted by smd4
Perhaps with current bikes. But classic bikes are literally sized by the length of the seat tube. With classic bikes, "stack height" means something entirely different than what it means today (today's meaning of the word didn't even exist, as far as I know). While bike reviewers BITD might mention their opinions that the top tube was too long or too short in the course of a review, those measurements were usually discounted, because they could easily be accounted for with different length stems. Also, BITD, performance riders would often choose the smaller of two frames if they fell in the middle--allowing for both a lighter and a stiffer frame.
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Old 06-08-23, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Aero-X
What's your saddle height on your 58cm SC?
Why? Measured from where?
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Old 06-08-23, 08:31 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by smd4
Why? Measured from where?
Measured from the center of the bottom bracket or center of the crank bolt, ballpark. The exposed section of your seat post is well balanced with the 58cm frame size. Not overly extended/exposed, nor overly short/barely sticking out of the seat collar. I wonder how much sea post will be showing on my 59cm. Knowing your saddle height would give me a reference point to compare with my saddle height and get an idea of how much seat post it will show.
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Old 06-08-23, 08:36 PM
  #32  
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Your saddle height will depend on your inseam. That being said, with my saddle currently slightly forward than the picture, but level, the measurement from the center of the crank to the top of the saddle along the seat tube is 29.5Ē.
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Old 06-08-23, 08:42 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Aero-X
Not overly extended/exposed, nor overly short/barely sticking out of the seat collar.
Youíll see a lot of both around here!
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Old 06-08-23, 09:25 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by smd4
Youíll see a lot of both around here!
My inseam is 35.5", my current saddle height is 79cm, so about 4cm taller than yours. Which means if I get a 58cm, my seat post will be noticeably more exposed than yours. I think your current saddle height is well balanced visually.
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Old 06-08-23, 09:33 PM
  #35  
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I once had a Steelman Stage Race 60cm(C-C) about 20 years ago. Brent did the fitting for me, and went with a shorter top tube 58cm. It's a traditional geometry. Now I think the SuperCorsa 59cm is the right size for me.
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Old 06-09-23, 06:55 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Aero-X
My inseam is 35.5", my current saddle height is 79cm, so about 4cm taller than yours. Which means if I get a 58cm, my seat post will be noticeably more exposed than yours. I think your current saddle height is well balanced visually.
Thanks. The "well-balanced" look is the result of the frame being properly sized for me. I think if I raised my saddle 4 cm, the limit line would be exposed. Sounds like a bigger frame suits you.

I think what you see here a lot is people buying used bikes that are either too big or too small. They justify if by saying things like, "I've always wanted a (Paramount, Nishiki, Pinarello, Peugeot, fill-in-the-blank) and this one was close, so I grabbed it."
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Old 06-09-23, 06:58 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Aero-X
I once had a Steelman Stage Race 60cm(C-C) about 20 years ago. Brent did the fitting for me, and went with a shorter top tube 58cm. It's a traditional geometry. Now I think the SuperCorsa 59cm is the right size for me.
When I was younger, I had a 60cm Paramount. It always seemed just a tad too big for me, although technically it fit. Maybe a 59 would have been better? I have probably shrunk over time, so the 58 seems perfect now.
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Old 08-04-23, 03:22 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by smd4
I am 6 foot 1 inch, (185.42 cm) and initially purchased a 60 cm Paramount in 1986. Was probably a tad too big for me. About 20 years ago, I bought a Cinelli Super Corsa frame, in 58 CM. That fits me much better.

You, at 191 cm, are about 6 foot 3 inches, so I'm thinking the 60 might be better for you. This would also help with any toe overlap.

Spending this kind of money on a frame, I might take the advice to get a professional fit. It might be worth it.

EDIT: Oh...and with threaded steerers, "stack height" means something different to us. 58 cm below:
Just received my Cinelli. BTW, I eventually went with a 58CM because I think I might shrink as I get older. So the frame set took about 6 months to receive from Italy. I have a small issue with installing a Dura-Ace 7700 series headset. It's the same one on your bike. The lower cup went in smoothly without any issues, but the upper cup keeps slipping into a slight angle, not straight. I constantly check the cup alignment. So I had to knock out the upper cup multiple times just when t I spot mis-alignment. After many tries, no luck to get the upper cup straight. I don't want to force anything. So any suggestion on how to get the upper cup in there? Thanks.

AX




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Old 08-04-23, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Aero-X
Just received my CinelliÖ So any suggestion on how to get the upper cup in there?
OMG, I LOVE the color of that frame! That thing is absolutely stunning.

When I built my bike around 2002, I was a newlywed, and funds were tight, so I installed a less-expensive Ultegra headset (along with several other Ultegra parts). Over the years I replaced the Ultegra parts with 7700 versions. I bought the 7700 headset maybe 10 years ago from eBay. While I have lots of bike tools, I never had a cup remover or headset press, so I had the local high end shop do the swap for me. Sorry I canít be more helpful! Did you grease the cups?

Pleas, please please post pics as you put everything together!
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Old 08-04-23, 04:13 PM
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yes it's a nice color. great looking frame

I would suggest you slightly bevel the top cup (the part that goes into the frame)

use a file and maybe a dab of grease ?

and maybe run some 320 grit emery paper around the inside of the head tube at the top ? Your improvised tool looks more than adequate.

/markp
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Old 08-04-23, 04:31 PM
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OK, both cups went in just fine. The upper cup needs micro adjustments with the DIY threaded rod. So the moment I spot there's a slight angle I tap the center rod with my wrench to the side where it's sticking out. Then make a 1/4 turn to check if that side went in ok. This DIY tool tend to apply uneven pressure. So just need to make small adjustments on all sides. I also think the upper head tube ID is a bit tighter then the bottom. I also sanded the upper cup tapered lip a bit more to help guiding. Check alignment every 1/4 turn.

So there's another issue. I think I need to cut the steer tube. It's way too long. It's almost 1" too long. I need about 1" spacers to fill the gap currently. Ideally, I will probably have about 1/4" spacers in the HS. It would look ugly with that many spacers. Never cut a threaded steer tube before. Worried to not cut square and ruin the threads. I do have a park threadless steer cut guide. Not sure if this can help. Thoughts?



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Old 08-04-23, 04:47 PM
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.
...the trick with tis (if it is a trick), is to have some sort of threaced race or lock nut spun all the way down onto the threaded portion, before you clamp it in that guide thing and do the cut.,, Then you can remove the fork from the guide, after you've made the cut, clean and level your cut with a flat file (if it's a little off). Removing the threaded race or locknut as the final step should clean out and re-chase the threads, so you can reassemble the whole thing with minimal issues.

Anyway, that's how I do it.

Do not cut it too short, measure it a few times and mark it before you cut it. I usually go a little long, and just use a thicker spacer. Do not cut it too short.
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Old 08-04-23, 04:55 PM
  #43  
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3alarmerís method will work. You have a couple headset pieces you can spare? Thereís also a special tool (isnít there always?).

Saw Guide

And...please please please follow 3alamer's advice. Measure...LOTS...before you cut. That steerer is precious metal. Once it's cut, there's no going back (except through very costly means).

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Old 08-05-23, 07:50 AM
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yes. All good advice coming at you from above. By all means cut the steerer long. An extra 1/4 or 1/2 inch will be fine, you can use a spacer to take up the space.

you can get 2 old headset upper nuts and thread them on and use that as a cutting guide. this trick works well.

And - take an old headset nut and thread it on the there before cutting ! Then when you run it off, it will "break" the threads over the cut.

remember to account for the height of your dura ace top nut ! I would only take about half - no more - of the stack height you are showing

if it were me (I have several Cinellis) I'd suggest cutting it about where the red line is in the pic below

/markp


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Old 08-05-23, 08:50 AM
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Thatís would be a bit too much for me. But better than too little.
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Old 08-05-23, 09:11 AM
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.
...the other deal with cutting steerer a little long, is that not all headsets have the same stack height. So if the headset you're currently installing has a short stack height, it might be harder to find something to replace it with, at some future date. It's usually not an issue, but there are some older bikes that had relatively short headset heights on the original, that are harder to find current replacements for.

It's impossible to anticipate what sort of replacements will be available in ten or twenty years.
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Old 08-05-23, 09:14 AM
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I donít build my bikes planning for future replacement parts.
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Old 08-05-23, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by smd4
I donít build my bikes planning for future replacement parts.
...someone 30 years from now will take a dim view of your cavalier attitude. But who cares ? We'll both be dead, and my bikes will probably be in a landfill somewhere.
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Old 08-05-23, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...someone 30 years from now will take a dim view of your cavalier attitude. But who cares ? We'll both be dead, and my bikes will probably be in a landfill somewhere.
Exactly! What the hell do I care if someone 30 years in the future canít find a threaded headset? Like I donít have enough to worry about.
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Old 08-06-23, 02:01 PM
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So I followed you guys' advices and cut about <10mm off the steer tube.

Originally I had to put in 2x10mm spacers in and still has about 1mm gap after topping out the lock nut. The 1mm gap is actually perfect for a 2mm keyed spacer which is on order.

I tried on a Cinelli AX stem(the best looking quill IMHO). The 20mm spacer stack looked like a chimney to me. Not visually pleasing at all. So I figured I will only remove about 10mm and that's it. I found an old Specialized 1" bearing set in my parts bin which is perfect for this task. I used the upper cup as a guide. The cut was nearly perfect! Just had to slightly file a little to smooth out the cut and deburr.

I put the AX stem back on. It looked much better. With the current stack height I only have about 1.5~2" drop from the saddle(eyeballing). Definitely much more upright than my other carbon bikes. The AX stem still has a lot of insertion left should I choose to raise it in the future.

So I will continue the build. Will report back as I progress.

BTW, I hand polished the AX stem to a mirror finish. I got this stem years ago from ebay. It was really scratched up, but cheap! Sanding off that original silver plated coating took nearly a week. Almost got finger cramps, LOL. That coating was tough! After that it was 400 grit > 800 > 1000 wet > 1200 wet > 1500 wet > 2000 wet and polish on my DIY hand drill polishing rig. Not sure how durable this mirror finish will be, LOL. Who cares!

Anyway thanks guys.

AX










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