Moistures not so Unique Frame-Fit?
04-07-21, 07:41 PM
#51
Scrubby duff
Originally Posted by Moisture
Much better!
Would going 120-140mm stem be too long? The handling already slowed down enough. It feels fantastic at speed though.
140mm + flat bars i think will be the longest id want to go even with long term goals in mind.
If I find a drop bar that is wider at the hoods (not just the drops like those gravel bars) , ill consider switching back.
Would going 120-140mm stem be too long? The handling already slowed down enough. It feels fantastic at speed though.
140mm + flat bars i think will be the longest id want to go even with long term goals in mind.
If I find a drop bar that is wider at the hoods (not just the drops like those gravel bars) , ill consider switching back.
If You were building a fitness bike but not quite want a road machine... Those two are it.
Again, roughly speaking.
Last edited by jma1st3r; 04-07-21 at 07:50 PM.
04-07-21, 09:04 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by jma1st3r
I would reference sizing to say... A Giant Fastroad? Or a Specialized Cirrus.
If You were building a fitness bike but not quite want a road machine... Those two are it.
Again, roughly speaking.
If You were building a fitness bike but not quite want a road machine... Those two are it.
Again, roughly speaking.
"Sports touring bike? Aggressive fit?
04-07-21, 09:38 PM
#53
Scrubby duff
Originally Posted by Moisture
What would you classify the tri a as in terms of fit?
"Sports touring bike? Aggressive fit?
"Sports touring bike? Aggressive fit?
Your first problem is labeling, categorizing has no purpose when you are on the bike getting miles. Your bike and taste is unique without the need to label it. I think the world miss the point on that. I have a whole rant about it.
Reason i brought up the previous bikes as example due to them being successful being what they are, flatbar city/fitness/fast bikes.
If it works, great. If it doesn't, your body will tell you, just like my knees are whining.
Or you want me to bring my level out.
04-11-21, 12:25 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by jma1st3r
What tri?
Your first problem is labeling, categorizing has no purpose when you are on the bike getting miles. Your bike and taste is unique without the need to label it. I think the world miss the point on that. I have a whole rant about it.
Reason i brought up the previous bikes as example due to them being successful being what they are, flatbar city/fitness/fast bikes.
If it works, great. If it doesn't, your body will tell you, just like my knees are whining.
Or you want me to bring my level out.
Your first problem is labeling, categorizing has no purpose when you are on the bike getting miles. Your bike and taste is unique without the need to label it. I think the world miss the point on that. I have a whole rant about it.
Reason i brought up the previous bikes as example due to them being successful being what they are, flatbar city/fitness/fast bikes.
If it works, great. If it doesn't, your body will tell you, just like my knees are whining.
Or you want me to bring my level out.
You made some good suggestions. Thank you.
i am buying a 130mm 3ttt stem off my local classifieds next week.
The handling has already slowed down considerably with my 100mm stem. But I still need some more space. I guess I'd need a longer top tube in the future.
04-11-21, 01:43 PM
#55
Scrubby duff
Originally Posted by Moisture
my bike. Nishiki Olympic Tri-A.
You made some good suggestions. Thank you.
i am buying a 130mm 3ttt stem off my local classifieds next week.
The handling has already slowed down considerably with my 100mm stem. But I still need some more space. I guess I'd need a longer top tube in the future.
You made some good suggestions. Thank you.
i am buying a 130mm 3ttt stem off my local classifieds next week.
The handling has already slowed down considerably with my 100mm stem. But I still need some more space. I guess I'd need a longer top tube in the future.
long stem, weight over rear axle. all contributors to slow down handling. I would save up for a bigger bike, and get as many miles out of your current nishiki.
I 'm thinking about the same thing with my fit. I can either fit a 54 or 56 endurance frame(and 52 cx frame, would not get another cx bike lol). But because my geometry, longer headtube would fit better.
Last edited by jma1st3r; 04-11-21 at 01:49 PM.
04-11-21, 02:05 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by jma1st3r
your bike is *borderline small for you.
long stem, weight over rear axle. all contributors to slow down handling. I would save up for a bigger bike, and get as many miles out of your current nishiki.
I 'm thinking about the same thing with my fit. I can either fit a 54 or 56 endurance frame(and 52 cx frame, would not get another cx bike lol). But because my geometry, longer headtube would fit better.
long stem, weight over rear axle. all contributors to slow down handling. I would save up for a bigger bike, and get as many miles out of your current nishiki.
I 'm thinking about the same thing with my fit. I can either fit a 54 or 56 endurance frame(and 52 cx frame, would not get another cx bike lol). But because my geometry, longer headtube would fit better.
Agree that for use with flat bars, I'll need a longer top tube and reach. I'm going to slam the stem almost all the way down into the headset today until I get the 130mm stem. I guess I'll eventually need a different sized road bike.
04-11-21, 02:11 PM
#57
Scrubby duff
Originally Posted by Moisture
Isn't it a normal top tube size for use with drop bars?
Agree that for use with flat bars, I'll need a longer top tube and reach. I'm going to slam the stem almost all the way down into the headset today until I get the 130mm stem. I guess I'll eventually need a different sized road bike.
Agree that for use with flat bars, I'll need a longer top tube and reach. I'm going to slam the stem almost all the way down into the headset today until I get the 130mm stem. I guess I'll eventually need a different sized road bike.
04-11-21, 02:16 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by jma1st3r
Reach is one thing but your saddle is pretty far back.
I guess I would need a pretty long top tube, because I would preferably want a stem shorter than 100mm. Or is it better to go short on the top tube and long stem?
04-11-21, 03:35 PM
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jma1st3r
If I plan to use flat bars, what sort of effective top tube length would you recommend?
I feel most comfortable with my 580mm top tube and a 130,140mm stem as of right now, for reference.
If I plan to use flat bars, what sort of effective top tube length would you recommend?
I feel most comfortable with my 580mm top tube and a 130,140mm stem as of right now, for reference.
04-11-21, 03:36 PM
#60
Scrubby duff
Originally Posted by Moisture
I feel like it's not actually set far back enough for me. I end up pedalling with the balls of my feet just in front of the pedal spindle. I would need to try a different saddle because the current one is already set at the max line and the rails are bent.
I guess I would need a pretty long top tube, because I would preferably want a stem shorter than 100mm. Or is it better to go short on the top tube and long stem?
I guess I would need a pretty long top tube, because I would preferably want a stem shorter than 100mm. Or is it better to go short on the top tube and long stem?
Go to bikeinsights.com and you can compare bike size difference.
It doesnt have nishiki listed but i would find relative similar bike frame and go from there.
diy bike fit in general requires good body awareness with moderate effort pedaling(as was recommended to me), kind like mild stress test to see if its good for you.
Disclaimer: If you arent doing long endurance ride, as long as bike is comfortable, that is good enough.
Last edited by jma1st3r; 04-11-21 at 04:06 PM.
04-11-21, 08:30 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by jma1st3r
Thats why others want you look at the whole picture. Bike size isnt just toptube.
Go to bikeinsights.com and you can compare bike size difference.
It doesnt have nishiki listed but i would find relative similar bike frame and go from there.
diy bike fit in general requires good body awareness with moderate effort pedaling(as was recommended to me), kind like mild stress test to see if its good for you.
Disclaimer: If you arent doing long endurance ride, as long as bike is comfortable, that is good enough.
Go to bikeinsights.com and you can compare bike size difference.
It doesnt have nishiki listed but i would find relative similar bike frame and go from there.
diy bike fit in general requires good body awareness with moderate effort pedaling(as was recommended to me), kind like mild stress test to see if its good for you.
Disclaimer: If you arent doing long endurance ride, as long as bike is comfortable, that is good enough.
i think that handling response would mainly be dictated by how low i can reasonably and comfortably I can get low on the bike. Tire and rim diameter would be another big factor other than the stem or frame itself. I think I will fit really well onto the bike with the 130mm stem I am planning to get.
The way you ride will have a big impact on weight distribution. When I am riding quickly, keeping my weight out of the saddle and into the cranks as I pedal really helps with weight distribution and can make you go quite fast without spending much more energy. I try to avoid riding with my weight in the saddle because it's not as stable or efficient.
04-11-21, 08:36 PM
#62
Scrubby duff
Originally Posted by Moisture
To summarize very briefly, I think that other than stack and reach, you'd want to consider the chainstay length, and consequently how slack or steep the seat tube angle is. Then you'll get factors such as the head tube angle paired with fork rake and the way this affects trail. These are probably the main variables other than top tube and stem length which dictate the way you are balance over the bike.
i think that handling response would mainly be dictated by how low i can reasonably and comfortably I can get low on the bike. Tire and rim diameter would be another big factor other than the stem or frame itself. I think I will fit really well onto the bike with the 130mm stem I am planning to get.
The way you ride will have a big impact on weight distribution. When I am riding quickly, keeping my weight out of the saddle and into the cranks as I pedal really helps with weight distribution and can make you go quite fast without spending much more energy. I try to avoid riding with my weight in the saddle because it's not as stable or efficient.
i think that handling response would mainly be dictated by how low i can reasonably and comfortably I can get low on the bike. Tire and rim diameter would be another big factor other than the stem or frame itself. I think I will fit really well onto the bike with the 130mm stem I am planning to get.
The way you ride will have a big impact on weight distribution. When I am riding quickly, keeping my weight out of the saddle and into the cranks as I pedal really helps with weight distribution and can make you go quite fast without spending much more energy. I try to avoid riding with my weight in the saddle because it's not as stable or efficient.
Its like the rwd/awd/fwd, live axle, double wish bone, macpherson strut, independent suspension argument in a vehicle. If you are just doing A to B, it wont matter. If you PREFER something, that different story all together.
Handling parameters matters alittle when you are fitting your bike. Since you probably wont find the extrems on your riding style, it wouldnt matter that much.
More riding, less theorizing.
If you find something worth noting, put it on the shelf or into the database. Not everyone need to know, or will find it useful. We are all kinda stuck to our own findings.
04-11-21, 10:19 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by jma1st3r
Forget chainstay length.
Its like the rwd/awd/fwd, live axle, double wish bone, macpherson strut, independent suspension argument in a vehicle. If you are just doing A to B, it wont matter. If you PREFER something, that different story all together.
Handling parameters matters alittle when you are fitting your bike. Since you probably wont find the extrems on your riding style, it wouldnt matter that much.
More riding, less theorizing.
If you find something worth noting, put it on the shelf or into the database. Not everyone need to know, or will find it useful. We are all kinda stuck to our own findings.
Its like the rwd/awd/fwd, live axle, double wish bone, macpherson strut, independent suspension argument in a vehicle. If you are just doing A to B, it wont matter. If you PREFER something, that different story all together.
Handling parameters matters alittle when you are fitting your bike. Since you probably wont find the extrems on your riding style, it wouldnt matter that much.
More riding, less theorizing.
If you find something worth noting, put it on the shelf or into the database. Not everyone need to know, or will find it useful. We are all kinda stuck to our own findings.
04-16-21, 04:42 PM
#64
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I've settled with a 120mm 3ttt stem off an old Colnago. I didn't except this longer stem to handle just as fast if not even faster than the 100mm SR stem its replacing. It fits me great.
I think Ill leave the fit as is for now. Maybe one day ill be on the lookout for a 140mm stem..
I think Ill leave the fit as is for now. Maybe one day ill be on the lookout for a 140mm stem..
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04-16-21, 04:55 PM
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That's starting to look like something in the range of "normal" for town cruiser type of bike.
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04-16-21, 05:26 PM
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Next things to improve (not in any particular order)...
- Clipless pedals
- Decent saddle
- Handlebar-mounted shifters
- Shifter-boss cable stops
IMO, YMMV
- Clipless pedals
- Decent saddle
- Handlebar-mounted shifters
- Shifter-boss cable stops
IMO, YMMV
04-16-21, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
Next things to improve (not in any particular order)...
- Clipless pedals
- Decent saddle
- Handlebar-mounted shifters
- Shifter-boss cable stops
IMO, YMMV
- Clipless pedals
- Decent saddle
- Handlebar-mounted shifters
- Shifter-boss cable stops
IMO, YMMV
What sort of shifters should I look into? Maybe some of those thumb friction shifters?
What about strap in pedals? I think I may have to go back to those, because I tend to pedal flat footed over the middle of the pedal rather than with the ball of my foot like I should be. Also, I think my seat is set too low.
would I be better off riding some sort of commuter bike if this is the sort of style I like?
04-16-21, 06:10 PM
#68
Scrubby duff
Originally Posted by Moisture
What are cable stops for?
What sort of shifters should I look into? Maybe some of those thumb friction shifters?
What about strap in pedals? I think I may have to go back to those, because I tend to pedal flat footed over the middle of the pedal rather than with the ball of my foot like I should be. Also, I think my seat is set too low.
would I be better off riding some sort of commuter bike if this is the sort of style I like?
What sort of shifters should I look into? Maybe some of those thumb friction shifters?
What about strap in pedals? I think I may have to go back to those, because I tend to pedal flat footed over the middle of the pedal rather than with the ball of my foot like I should be. Also, I think my seat is set too low.
would I be better off riding some sort of commuter bike if this is the sort of style I like?
04-16-21, 06:46 PM
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Hey Moisture, your bike is looking good. Ride it awhile now before you go making changes because your body will do some adapting all on its own. Then if you still like it, look for a better seat. I wouldn't worry about the shifters, I have similar shifters on my Giant and once you've grown used to them (adapting once again) using them becomes second nature. Good luck,
04-16-21, 07:22 PM
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I would prefer bar shifters. Whats wrong with this saddle? I wanna get a thinner one to motivate me to keep my weight off it. Ithis one will be useful for longer trips. I ride my bike a lot. I'm progressively wanting a longer and longer stem as the time passes.
I love the bike the way it Is now. I've struck a good balance between comfort and performance with the positioning. I pushed the bike through some windy gravel trails with various elevation changes and she performed well. Very high amount of grip, good balance, very fast..
I love the bike the way it Is now. I've struck a good balance between comfort and performance with the positioning. I pushed the bike through some windy gravel trails with various elevation changes and she performed well. Very high amount of grip, good balance, very fast..
04-16-21, 07:22 PM
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Strikes a near perfect balance between agility and stability
04-16-21, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Moisture
What are cable stops for?
What sort of shifters should I look into? Maybe some of those thumb friction shifters?
What about strap in pedals? I think I may have to go back to those, because I tend to pedal flat footed over the middle of the pedal rather than with the ball of my foot like I should be. Also, I think my seat is set too low.
would I be better off riding some sort of commuter bike if this is the sort of style I like?
What sort of shifters should I look into? Maybe some of those thumb friction shifters?
What about strap in pedals? I think I may have to go back to those, because I tend to pedal flat footed over the middle of the pedal rather than with the ball of my foot like I should be. Also, I think my seat is set too low.
would I be better off riding some sort of commuter bike if this is the sort of style I like?
MTB-type integrated brake/shifter levers would be my choice to put all the controls in my hands without having to take my hands off the bars to shift. This has been the standard for 25+ years - road and MTB.
My suggestion is proper cycling shoes with a stiff sole and clipless pedals. You won't get the same result from just clips and straps with non-cleated shoes.
If this is the style bike you like, a "hybrid" is probably the bike for you, with tires to suit your terrain.
04-17-21, 08:22 AM
#73
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Originally Posted by Eric F
Get rid of the clamp-on cable stop thing you have now with cable stops that bolt onto the downtime shifter bosses. This is a cosmetic issue, not functional.
MTB-type integrated brake/shifter levers would be my choice to put all the controls in my hands without having to take my hands off the bars to shift. This has been the standard for 25+ years - road and MTB.
My suggestion is proper cycling shoes with a stiff sole and clipless pedals. You won't get the same result from just clips and straps with non-cleated shoes.
If this is the style bike you like, a "hybrid" is probably the bike for you, with tires to suit your terrain.
MTB-type integrated brake/shifter levers would be my choice to put all the controls in my hands without having to take my hands off the bars to shift. This has been the standard for 25+ years - road and MTB.
My suggestion is proper cycling shoes with a stiff sole and clipless pedals. You won't get the same result from just clips and straps with non-cleated shoes.
If this is the style bike you like, a "hybrid" is probably the bike for you, with tires to suit your terrain.
I think the first step would be to look into some cycling shoes, then maybe look into clipless pedals.. I just don't like those tiny platform pedals.
I think your suggestion re hybrid bike is a good idea. I think anything really designed around flat bars should be a good fit for me.
Here's a picture of my setup on the norco before she retired. I still can't believe this is how I was riding. I mean its partially due to the saddle position being too high but its incredible how losing some weight changes the way you ride.. I guess it's better than an overweight person being forced to ride a bike the way he should be 30lb lighter..
04-17-21, 10:58 AM
#74
Scrubby duff
Originally Posted by Moisture
Well if its just for cosmetic purposes ill likely leave the cable stop the way it is.. but I should be looking into some sort of integrated shifters. My gt mountainbike has those but I don't like the ergonomics of the brake levers at all and id prefer to stick with friction shifting even if it means taking my hand off the bars for each shift. I would constantly have to play around with the barrel adjustors on a weekly basis to get the shifting right.
I think the first step would be to look into some cycling shoes, then maybe look into clipless pedals.. I just don't like those tiny platform pedals.
I think your suggestion re hybrid bike is a good idea. I think anything really designed around flat bars should be a good fit for me.
Here's a picture of my setup on the norco before she retired. I still can't believe this is how I was riding. I mean its partially due to the saddle position being too high but its incredible how losing some weight changes the way you ride.. I guess it's better than an overweight person being forced to ride a bike the way he should be 30lb lighter..
I think the first step would be to look into some cycling shoes, then maybe look into clipless pedals.. I just don't like those tiny platform pedals.
I think your suggestion re hybrid bike is a good idea. I think anything really designed around flat bars should be a good fit for me.
Here's a picture of my setup on the norco before she retired. I still can't believe this is how I was riding. I mean its partially due to the saddle position being too high but its incredible how losing some weight changes the way you ride.. I guess it's better than an overweight person being forced to ride a bike the way he should be 30lb lighter..
And just now, flip stem to - 6d 90mm, dropped 5mm in height and shrunk bar to 42 width
You body will adapt and your preference will change.
While technology may not change the world for good. I think biking will. But thats another topic.
Keep riding.
Last edited by jma1st3r; 04-19-21 at 08:11 PM.
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04-19-21, 06:28 PM
#75
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Originally Posted by cubewheels
You may not like dropbars but you can at least try something like a Soma Gator handlebar. Not as big drop as regular dropbar and it will accept the brake levers you're currently using.
Having your wrist rotated in "handshake" position will greatly improve comfort in longer rides.
Having your wrist rotated in "handshake" position will greatly improve comfort in longer rides.
As i continue to adapt my riding position, I may end up switching back.
