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Anyone still a Sedis/Sedisport chain fan out there???

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Anyone still a Sedis/Sedisport chain fan out there???

Old 11-13-20, 01:07 PM
  #51  
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Trek bought their Sedis chains in individual packages and trimmed them to length (apparently shipping cost on a bulk spool from France to Waterloo was too high), so there were always SedisSport chain pieces piling up in the scrap bin. I fished out about 20# worth, brought them home and have been splicing together SedisSport chains for my bikes ever since. After 30 years, I still have enough pieces for a few more chains.
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Old 06-13-23, 06:44 PM
  #52  
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No quick-link?

Originally Posted by Dboyle
I restore a lot of vintage bikes. It is always great to include a Sedis chain on a bike that should have a Sedis chain. The reality is that, unlike frames or other components, chains wear out. That leaves the limited number of Sedis chains in high demand. Given the high cost of restoring a classic, it seems totally reasonable to use a SRAM chain given it is a descendent of the origianal. In another four or five years there will be no more Sedis chains available without spending a fortune. They are expensive enough now given that a more modern chain works and looks just as good.
Newbie question here: I am not doing a full restoration but getting a 1981 PXN10 back on the road with a full cleaning and service. I donít see a quick-link on the Sedis stock chain. I had planned to remove the chain to make my job easier however now Iím reconsidering leaving it as is and cleaning in place. Do you have any recommendations on this? Did I miss the quick-link or is there not one? Must I bust a link to remove it?
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Old 06-13-23, 07:06 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by JesseABN
Newbie question here: I am not doing a full restoration but getting a 1981 PXN10 back on the road with a full cleaning and service. I donít see a quick-link on the Sedis stock chain. I had planned to remove the chain to make my job easier however now Iím reconsidering leaving it as is and cleaning in place. Do you have any recommendations on this? Did I miss the quick-link or is there not one? Must I bust a link to remove it?
No, I think these are before the days of quicklinks. Best to use a proper chain breaker if you want to clean the chain properly(especially if you want to run wax on it), they dont cost a lot. From memory I investigated whether I could put a quick link into a sedis chain and something wasnt compatible(possibly the width of the links) cant remember. Ive removed them manytimes to clean properly and so far have had no issues.
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Old 06-13-23, 07:41 PM
  #54  
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So I just push one rivet out with the chain breaker then push that same rivet back in to reconnect the chain?
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Old 06-13-23, 07:49 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by JesseABN
So I just push one rivet out with the chain breaker then push that same rivet back in to reconnect the chain?
that's basically it.
This video does a decent job of describing the details of pushing the rivet out (but not completely out).


When you put the rivet back in, you may need to loosen the rivet slightly to permit the link to move freely. The upper portion of the chain tool is used for this... and I'm sure there's video somewhere.

Steve in Peoria (I still have a bike with this sort of chain and rather enjoy the process)
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Old 06-13-23, 08:12 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by davester
As noted above, SRAM bought Sedis so a new SRAM chain is the same thing as a Sedisport.
Current SRAM 7-8s chain is a copy of Shimano's first narrow chain ("UG NARROW") which was only subtly reinforced to produce their first HG chain.

I believe a patent expired around year 2001 which allowed SRAM and others to use Shimano's exact bulged sideplate design, and SRAM re-designed their 7-8s and 9s chains at that time. Better shifting resulted.

The Sedisport was I believe the first bushingless derailer chain. All of today's derailer chains are descended from that one feature, although they are also all much more flexible laterally than Sedisport chain.

Pre-index derailers (other than the Duopar and certain MTB designs) tend to struggle with maintaining constant chain gap, such that if a large 32t freewheel is used the gap is big when the small cogs are selected. But the more-rigid Sedisport can give shifting response on those derailers that is closer to the rigidity of earlier bushed derailer chains.

I sometimes use 7s Shimano SIS levers to work with vintage Suntour or Shimano non-indexed derailers and standard-spaced 5- or 6-speed freewheels, which indexes/works pretty darn well even using modern chain if the freewheel isn't so big as to cause big fluctuations in chain gap. The Sedisport chain or traditional bushed chain may actually help with shifts across the smallest cogs on such setups as compared to using a super-flexible modern chain.
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Old 06-13-23, 09:05 PM
  #57  
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I have a 210-link Sedisport on my recumbent with 33 years and 10,000+ miles - and still no measurable wear. I think the elevated mounting and the only-half-as-often run around the cogs helps.

I have three more Sedisports in my Strategic Chain Reserve, waiting for the right build / installation.
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Old 06-13-23, 11:44 PM
  #58  
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Having used sedisport black and then silver chains throughout the 6-7-8 speed freewheel era this gem was put aside for a special occasion. 30 years on that occasion is almost right around the corner, although I’ve used Record 9-speed chains with good and long-lasting results lately.
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Old 06-14-23, 10:55 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by JesseABN
Newbie question here: I am not doing a full restoration but getting a 1981 PXN10 back on the road with a full cleaning and service. I donít see a quick-link on the Sedis stock chain. I had planned to remove the chain to make my job easier however now Iím reconsidering leaving it as is and cleaning in place. Do you have any recommendations on this? Did I miss the quick-link or is there not one? Must I bust a link to remove it?
Yes, quick-links were not used back then. If you do want to use a quick-link, the KMC ones work. Needs to be the 6/7/8 version that is for 7.3mm chains, not sure if the 7.1mm ones work. The SRAM 8 speed removable links seems to be too narrow.

This is for the older Sedissport chains, the common black version that was used for 6 or 7 speed. The later Sachs Sedis had a few different versions and some were a little thinner. Don't know all the versions well enough to ID or give details of the later ones.
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Old 06-14-23, 11:49 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Chombi
Still love my Sedis chains on my bikes. I have one bike with a nickel finished Sedisport (For 6 speeds|) and the rest are sporting narrow Sedis/Sachs later model chains (For 7 speeds), with the beveled outer link plates. Only thing is, they occasionaly hang up on Maillard notched toothed
I've tested many different chains on bikes where I was (fooling myself into) thinking that I could live happily with the original Helicomatic hub/freewheel.

Every modern chain (7-8 and 9 speed) that I tested also could produce the feared "false-neutral" or "skating" between cog positions, none was particularly better than the original Sedisport chain that came with the bike.
Most (all?) of the Helicomatic freewheels also featured narrow cog spacing, so using older bushed chain wasn't an option I could explore.

I even went so far as to modify the cogs, but still couldn't eliminate a too-often tendency for the chain to "glide" between gears.

I almost took out a following rider on a climb once when a quick shift led to a very sudden complete loss of drive.
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Old 06-14-23, 12:11 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by KCT1986
Yes, quick-links were not used back then. If you do want to use a quick-link, the KMC ones work. Needs to be the 6/7/8 version that is for 7.3mm chains, not sure if the 7.1mm ones work. The SRAM 8 speed removable links seems to be too narrow.

This is for the older Sedisport chains, the common black version that was used for 6 or 7 speed. The later Sachs Sedis had a few different versions and some were a little thinner. Don't know all the versions well enough to ID or give details of the later ones.
There were indeed quite a few versions of Sachs chain from the late-80's going into the 90's, and their widths could differ slightly.
Many shops back then touted these Sachs chains as being better than Shimano chains on the newer bikes having HG-ramped cassettes, but in all of many cases that I remember, the shifting quality suffered and the service interval on cable adjustments decreased markedly.

An exception to the above would be on any bike having a Suntour Accu-7 drivetrain, since the Accu-7 shifters had quite-generous over-shift movement while shifting to larger cogs, and the "flat-sided" Sachs chain was far less likely to momentarily shift up onto the next-larger cog than you were shifting to (9s-width chain would only later solve that problem entirely).
To be fair to Suntour here, they never recommended using UG-Narrow or similarly-bulged HG chain with their shift levers. But I was running re-spaced 7s HG cassette cogs at the time using Accu-7 Command shifters, so naturally had first tried using Shimano's otherwise-excellent HG chain with that setup.

Many of the Sachs chains had a sort of "master link" that was colored black, and you were supposed to shorten the chain only from the other end. I couldn't visually see any dimensional differences on that special link versus the other links of the chain, but I tried to respect it's presence by not cutting it off. Look for this feature before cutting your new Sachs chain (as I believe that this link was there to assure needed added retention strength when used with ramped HG-style cogs).

Last edited by dddd; 06-14-23 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 06-14-23, 12:23 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by JesseABN
So I just push one rivet out with the chain breaker then push that same rivet back in to reconnect the chain?
Yes, except they're not rivets; just pins. Riveted chains only became necessary for clusters with more than eight sprockets, which require a narrower chain than is possible with pins. Pins don't have the same retention issue as rivets when reused.
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Old 06-14-23, 12:45 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
Yes, except they're not rivets; just pins. Riveted chains only became necessary for clusters with more than eight sprockets, which require a narrower chain than is possible with pins. Pins don't have the same retention issue as rivets when reused.

Thanks for the info. So then the stamped lines on the individual pins are for tension? And any place on the chain is as good as the next? You can see from this photo how grungy it and the entire drivetrain is on this old bike.
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Old 06-14-23, 01:09 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by JesseABN
Thanks for the info. So then the stamped lines on the individual pins are for tension? And any place on the chain is as good as the next? You can see from this photo how grungy it and the entire drivetrain is on this old bike.
Yeah, unless there is a black link in the chain having no such peening/staking features, you just push any pin out and back in.

Later Sachs chains intended for off-road duty or for use with ramped HG-style cogs touted "quad-staked" riveting/peening, while the black link at one end of the chain had a different pin better suited to being pushed in and out without subsequent peening needed to improve it's retention.

For road use with traditional sprocket teeth, the pins on your chain were expected to allow one to reliably re-connect their chain at home.
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Old 06-14-23, 01:12 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by dddd
There were indeed quite a few versions of Sachs chain from the late-80's going into the 90's, and their widths could differ slightly.
Many shops back then touted these Sachs chains as being better than Shimano chains on the newer bikes having HG-ramped cassettes, but in all of many cases that I remember, the shifting quality suffered and the service interval on cable adjustments decreased markedly.

An exception to the above would be on any bike having a Suntour Accu-7 drivetrain, since the Accu-7 shifters had quite-generous over-shift movement while shifting to larger cogs, and the "flat-sided" Sachs chain was far less likely to momentarily shift up onto the next-larger cog than you were shifting to (9s-width chain would only later solve that problem entirely).
To be fair to Suntour here, they never recommended using UG-Narrow or similarly-bulged HG chain with their shift levers. But I was running re-spaced 7s HG cassette cogs at the time using Accu-7 Command shifters, so naturally had first tried using Shimano's otherwise-excellent HG chain with that setup.

Many of the Sachs chains had a sort of "master link" that was colored black, and you were supposed to shorten the chain only from the other end. I couldn't visually see any dimensional differences on that special link versus the other links of the chain, but I tried to respect it's presence by not cutting it off. Look for this feature before cutting your new Sachs chain (as I believe that this link was there to assure needed added retention strength when used with ramped HG-style cogs).
Under the Sachs/Sedis name there were lots of versions. Some had the Sedis 'buldge' inner link and beveled outer link, while others just had the bevel.

Some also had 'cross pinning' of the pins, whatever Sachs called that process. Maybe that was why they recommended a certain shortening procedure.

Too many versions to remember or decipher. Most of my bikes were converted to Shimano UG or HG during that time period. Only 1 bike ran Suntour Ultra 7 Accushift Sprint/Suberbe.
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Old 06-14-23, 03:38 PM
  #66  
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same here

Originally Posted by dddd
I've tested many different chains on bikes where I was (fooling myself into) thinking that I could live happily with the original Helicomatic hub/freewheel.

Every modern chain (7-8 and 9 speed) that I tested also could produce the feared "false-neutral" or "skating" between cog positions, none was particularly better than the original Sedisport chain that came with the bike.
Most (all?) of the Helicomatic freewheels also featured narrow cog spacing, so using older bushed chain wasn't an option I could explore.

I even went so far as to modify the cogs, but still couldn't eliminate a too-often tendency for the chain to "glide" between gears.

I almost took out a following rider on a climb once when a quick shift led to a very sudden complete loss of drive.
We have a Trek 720 with the Helico rear gearset, the previous owner had replaced the sedis chain with a modern narrow chain, poor wife kept getting a false Neutral, i went all new with an NOS sedis chain and rear cluster and that seems to be the best we can do.
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Old 06-14-23, 05:35 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by dddd
Yeah, unless there is a black link in the chain having no such peening/staking features, you just push any pin out and back in.

Later Sachs chains intended for off-road duty or for use with ramped HG-style cogs touted "quad-staked" riveting/peening, while the black link at one end of the chain had a different pin better suited to being pushed in and out without subsequent peening needed to improve it's retention.

For road use with traditional sprocket teeth, the pins on your chain were expected to allow one to reliably re-connect their chain at home.
That was simple! Thanks for the advice. Iím overly cautious with this vintage stuff.
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Old 06-14-23, 08:34 PM
  #68  
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Iíve loved Sedisport chains ever since my BMX days. When old bike shops were about to close, I used to ask about Sedis and Sedisport chains for my BMX and Freestyle bikes, and later mountain bikes and road bikes. Even when I used a certain length for the drivetrain, I kept the remaining links, just like the rest of you, of course. It didnít matter if the chain was black, silver and black or gold. They had nice chain plates and were built to last.

Maybe itís me, but I never had to replace a Sedisport chain on any bike I had. KMC? Yes. Shimano? Certainly. But not Sedisport. I know the Sachs and SRAM chains are modern equivalents to the old Sedis chains, but for older road and mountain bikes with 5 or 6 speeds (at least), Sedisport chains are marvelous.

Thatís just my two cents.
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Old 06-14-23, 08:42 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by JesseABN
That was simple! Thanks for the advice. Iím overly cautious with this vintage stuff.
You are using a master link or quick link with that chain, right?

just to clarify things, if needed, a chain should look like this if you have plans to push the pin (almost) out and push it back in...




and the pins should extend from the side plate by 0.5mm or so...




Steve in Peoria
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