Is using a helmet cam worth it?
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I suggest you might provide more financial protection for your wife in the event of your demise (for any reason) by carrying the appropriate amount of life insurance. Do not depend on her collecting a financial windfall from the unlikely event of her collecting it from an irresponsible hit-and-run driver with big pockets or high limits insurance coverage who gets caught and proven at fault for your death by means of your handy-dandy helmet camera.
Who are you going to collect from if you are seriously injured, incapacitated long term or paralyzed? You and your family will suffer massive financial setbacks and losses due to medical bills, loss of work wages etc.. That $200 or so camera could dissolve all that financial loss quite easily..
I agree that people should also have life insurance but not just because they cycle. Life insurance is cheap and can help cover funeral costs and leave some left for the family bills.
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#27
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Fancy that. She decided to de-escalate and no longer incriminate herself the moment she knew she was being filmed.
For those who question whether visible cameras deter poor behavior, it's a well documented phenomenon known as the Observer Effect (or sometimes called Hawthorne Effect).
https://scholarworks.montana.edu/xml...=1&isAllowed=y
https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-ha...ras-1408320244
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...mera/21997511/
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...ehavior-127762
https://www.bodycamera.co.uk/blogs/n...being-recorded
Obviously, the cameras won't be visible 100% of the time, but we do know that people are more likely than not to modify their behavior if they see one.
For those who question whether visible cameras deter poor behavior, it's a well documented phenomenon known as the Observer Effect (or sometimes called Hawthorne Effect).
https://scholarworks.montana.edu/xml...=1&isAllowed=y
https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-ha...ras-1408320244
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...mera/21997511/
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...ehavior-127762
https://www.bodycamera.co.uk/blogs/n...being-recorded
Obviously, the cameras won't be visible 100% of the time, but we do know that people are more likely than not to modify their behavior if they see one.
However, with the prevalence of dashcams nowadays, why is driving as bad as ever? You'd think that drivers would be aware that they are being recorded by other drivers.
Last edited by Daniel4; 09-29-22 at 08:56 AM.
#28
Cop Magnet
When people can see a cop they drive more carefully, and when the cops hide people drive as if they aren't there. That's how so many people get nailed for speeding.
When it comes to cycling, motorists have a generic mental image of what a cyclist will look like. Anything that is outside the "normal" image will draw attention. A camera on top of a helmet is one of those things. In the case of a rear camera, it's probably the blinking red recording light. When you approach a cyclist with a standard rear light (not a camera), your eyes are automatically drawn to it.
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You're missing the point..
Who are you going to collect from if you are seriously injured, incapacitated long term or paralyzed? You and your family will suffer massive financial setbacks and losses due to medical bills, loss of work wages etc.. That $200 or so camera could dissolve all that financial loss quite easily..
I agree that people should also have life insurance but not just because they cycle. Life insurance is cheap and can help cover funeral costs and leave some left for the family bills.
Who are you going to collect from if you are seriously injured, incapacitated long term or paralyzed? You and your family will suffer massive financial setbacks and losses due to medical bills, loss of work wages etc.. That $200 or so camera could dissolve all that financial loss quite easily..
I agree that people should also have life insurance but not just because they cycle. Life insurance is cheap and can help cover funeral costs and leave some left for the family bills.
Can you point out some reference for many or any cyclists (or their survivors) who have easily collected healthy sums of money only because the cyclist had the foresight to have a helmet or bicycle mounted camera capture a license plate number of a negligent driver with sufficient means or insurance to reimburse the cyclist/family for massive financial setbacks and losses due to medical bills, loss of work wages etc.? Sounds like a sales pitch based on wishful thinking.
Also I suggest you look up personal insurance for medical expenses as well as life insurance policies. Such policies (to include your own automobile insurance which may cover injuries while bicycling) do not have to be written with a bare bones minimum or zero payout.
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Presumably your own medical, auto or life insurance policies will cover such expenses.
Can you point out some reference for many or any cyclists (or their survivors) who have easily collected healthy sums of money only because the cyclist had the foresight to have a helmet or bicycle mounted camera capture a license plate number of a negligent driver with sufficient means or insurance to reimburse the cyclist/family for massive financial setbacks and losses due to medical bills, loss of work wages etc.? Sounds like a sales pitch based on wishful thinking.
Also I suggest you look up personal insurance for medical expenses as well as life insurance policies. Such policies (to include your own automobile insurance which may cover injuries while bicycling) do not have to be written with a bare bones minimum or zero payout.
Can you point out some reference for many or any cyclists (or their survivors) who have easily collected healthy sums of money only because the cyclist had the foresight to have a helmet or bicycle mounted camera capture a license plate number of a negligent driver with sufficient means or insurance to reimburse the cyclist/family for massive financial setbacks and losses due to medical bills, loss of work wages etc.? Sounds like a sales pitch based on wishful thinking.
Also I suggest you look up personal insurance for medical expenses as well as life insurance policies. Such policies (to include your own automobile insurance which may cover injuries while bicycling) do not have to be written with a bare bones minimum or zero payout.
Health insurance won't generally cover you for lost wages unless you have a separate policy or a rider for that..
Why would your auto insurance cover you on a bike unless you have some sort of umbrella policy that covers you while on a bike?
Sales pitch? LOL.. It's an absolute fact of life that if a driver plows into you and they are at fault then their insurance will pay for medical bills, lost wages from work and damage to your bike.
Not sure why you have such a strong opinion on this when you don't appear to have a grasp on how it works but to each their own I guess.. Anti-camera onwards if it makes you happy...
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#31
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Your sales pitch left out Short Term Disability insurance and Long Term Disability Insurance.
You won't believe this "salesman" either, don't know why I bother.
-mr. bill
You won't believe this "salesman" either, don't know why I bother.
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#32
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Your sales pitch left out Short Term Disability insurance and Long Term Disability Insurance.
You won't believe this "salesman" either, don't know why I bother.
-mr. bill
You won't believe this "salesman" either, don't know why I bother.
-mr. bill
Maybe he sells insurance and is trying to convince others to $1,000 a month for every insurance policy under the sun?
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#33
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Is it also an absolute fact of life that every at fault driver who plows into bicyclists, (especially hit and run drivers that need to be identified and located by a bicycle mounted camera) is driving with a paid-up full coverage auto liability insurance policy with a high maximum payout limit?
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I'd put such measures far down on the list of proactive actions for anyone to take who intends to provide financial security for himself or loved ones in case of misfortune.
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Is it also an absolute fact of life that every at fault driver who plows into bicyclists, (especially hit and run drivers that need to be identified and located by a bicycle mounted camera) is driving with a paid-up full coverage auto liability insurance policy with a high maximum payout limit?
Also, if your damages are higher than the insurance co pays then you can go after the driver for the remaining amount. You can garnish their pay, tax refunds etc for life until the debt is paid.. You can also put a lien on any property they own but meh, you are obviously trolling this thread or trying to sell insurance so I'll let you have at it..
Have a great day!

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#36
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Extract:
Yes, Your Automobile Insurance Policy May Cover Your Bike Crash
When it comes to automobile insurance, it is important for all riders to know and understand that it is not just the driver’s automobile insurance coverage that matters, but our own. When I tell people this, the most common response is for people to think they misheard me. Then, when I tell them that I did indeed state that their automobile insurance may apply to their bike crash, they often ask something like: “Why on earth would my own automobile insurance company ever pay for my injuries from bicycle crash caused by someone else?”
The answer is actually quite simple and logical. When we buy automobile insurance, we are often purchasing insurance protection not only for the harm we may cause to other people with our automobiles but also for automobile-related harms that we may suffer. Our automobile insurance policies not only have liability provisions and property damage provisions that cover us in the event that caused harm to someone else or their vehicle and/or in the event our vehicle is damaged, but they also often contain provisions addressing uninsured/underinsured coverage (“UM coverage”) and medical payment insurance (“medpay coverage”). These provisions become important to us as bicyclists in the event of a crash.
Let me explain.
UM Coverage: What It Is and How It Can Protect Against More than Just “Hit and Runs”
UM Coverage is exactly what its name purports it to be. It is automobile insurance coverage that generally kicks in and covers an insured person when the motorist primarily responsible for a crash: (1) cannot be identified; (2) has been identified, but unlawfully does not carry any insurance (i.e. is uninsured); or (3) has been identified, has tendered his/her insurance policy limits, but does not carry enough insurance to fully compensate you and your family members for your losses and damages (i.e. is underinsured).
While many people rightfully associate UM Coverage with “hit and run” automobile v. automobile crashes, it is also important to know that UM Coverage also can apply when the “hit and run” involves injury to a bicyclist.
UM Coverage may also be available to an injured bicyclist in “no contact” situations (i.e. situations where an unidentified negligent driver leaves the scene of a crash after negligently causing a bicyclist to crash but without ever making contact with the bicyclist or the bicycle). For example, if a motorist acts negligently by violating the minimum three-foot passing law and causes a bicyclist to swerve and crash, and if that motorist intentionally or unintentionally leaves the scene of the crash, the bicyclist should be able to successfully make a UM claim under his or her own automobile policy for the amount of his or her damages up to the amount of the purchased UM Coverage.
Further, UM Coverage commonly extends to bicyclists in cases where a number of the damages suffered by the injured bicyclist exceeds the amount of the motorist’s insurance coverage. For example, had the Kalamazoo tragedy occurred in Maine, and had Mr. Pickett only carried the minimum amount of insurance required by Maine law (up to $50,000 per person and up to $100,000 total per crash), the bicyclists’ own UM coverages would all come into play. If each of the nine bicyclists received $11,111.11 under the driver’s policy and if one of the surviving nine bicyclists carried a UIM policy in the same amount of the driver, the most in UIM coverage that the bicyclist would likely be entitled to would be $38,888.89 (the difference between the $50,000 she purchased in coverage and the $11,111.11 he already received from the driver). In contrast, if one of the other surviving bicyclists purchased and carried $500,000 in UIM Coverage, that bicyclist would likely be entitled to receive up to $488,888.89 for damages arising out of the very same crash.
When it comes to automobile insurance, it is important for all riders to know and understand that it is not just the driver’s automobile insurance coverage that matters, but our own. When I tell people this, the most common response is for people to think they misheard me. Then, when I tell them that I did indeed state that their automobile insurance may apply to their bike crash, they often ask something like: “Why on earth would my own automobile insurance company ever pay for my injuries from bicycle crash caused by someone else?”
The answer is actually quite simple and logical. When we buy automobile insurance, we are often purchasing insurance protection not only for the harm we may cause to other people with our automobiles but also for automobile-related harms that we may suffer. Our automobile insurance policies not only have liability provisions and property damage provisions that cover us in the event that caused harm to someone else or their vehicle and/or in the event our vehicle is damaged, but they also often contain provisions addressing uninsured/underinsured coverage (“UM coverage”) and medical payment insurance (“medpay coverage”). These provisions become important to us as bicyclists in the event of a crash.
Let me explain.
UM Coverage: What It Is and How It Can Protect Against More than Just “Hit and Runs”
UM Coverage is exactly what its name purports it to be. It is automobile insurance coverage that generally kicks in and covers an insured person when the motorist primarily responsible for a crash: (1) cannot be identified; (2) has been identified, but unlawfully does not carry any insurance (i.e. is uninsured); or (3) has been identified, has tendered his/her insurance policy limits, but does not carry enough insurance to fully compensate you and your family members for your losses and damages (i.e. is underinsured).
While many people rightfully associate UM Coverage with “hit and run” automobile v. automobile crashes, it is also important to know that UM Coverage also can apply when the “hit and run” involves injury to a bicyclist.
UM Coverage may also be available to an injured bicyclist in “no contact” situations (i.e. situations where an unidentified negligent driver leaves the scene of a crash after negligently causing a bicyclist to crash but without ever making contact with the bicyclist or the bicycle). For example, if a motorist acts negligently by violating the minimum three-foot passing law and causes a bicyclist to swerve and crash, and if that motorist intentionally or unintentionally leaves the scene of the crash, the bicyclist should be able to successfully make a UM claim under his or her own automobile policy for the amount of his or her damages up to the amount of the purchased UM Coverage.
Further, UM Coverage commonly extends to bicyclists in cases where a number of the damages suffered by the injured bicyclist exceeds the amount of the motorist’s insurance coverage. For example, had the Kalamazoo tragedy occurred in Maine, and had Mr. Pickett only carried the minimum amount of insurance required by Maine law (up to $50,000 per person and up to $100,000 total per crash), the bicyclists’ own UM coverages would all come into play. If each of the nine bicyclists received $11,111.11 under the driver’s policy and if one of the surviving nine bicyclists carried a UIM policy in the same amount of the driver, the most in UIM coverage that the bicyclist would likely be entitled to would be $38,888.89 (the difference between the $50,000 she purchased in coverage and the $11,111.11 he already received from the driver). In contrast, if one of the other surviving bicyclists purchased and carried $500,000 in UIM Coverage, that bicyclist would likely be entitled to receive up to $488,888.89 for damages arising out of the very same crash.
#37
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Got it, one bicyclist's shoulder injury case could be found that was strengthened by the video camera footage that his lawyer used to help confirm the fault for a collision, though it was not necessary for identifying or locating the responsible party and using it did not appear to be such an "easy" task. Sometimes catching lightning in a bottle does occur, but rarely. I wouldn't count on it or put much faith in it either.
I'd put such measures far down on the list of proactive actions for anyone to take who intends to provide financial security for himself or loved ones in case of misfortune.
I'd put such measures far down on the list of proactive actions for anyone to take who intends to provide financial security for himself or loved ones in case of misfortune.
But what could Dan Flanzig possibly know that some rando on the internut doesn't think he knows better?
Yup. Lucy pulled the football away. AGAIN.
Why am I not shocked.
-mr. bill
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Perhaps you should read the advice from another bicycle lawyer at Does Auto Insurance Cover Bicycle Crashes
Extract:
Extract:
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#39
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I suggest you might provide more financial protection for your wife in the event of your demise (for any reason) by carrying the appropriate amount of life insurance. Do not depend on her collecting a financial windfall from the unlikely event of her collecting it from an irresponsible hit-and-run driver with big pockets or high limits insurance coverage who gets caught and proven at fault for your death by means of your handy-dandy helmet camera.
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#42
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Auto insurance to include medical payments and UM coverage is NOT an umbrella policy. Nor does the article state that an umbrella policy is required for a bicyclist to be covered by his own standard auto policy.
#43
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Seems as if some widows might if they've been convinced about go-pro magical powers by their late starry-eyed spouse.
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I do, however, have great video of things I've seen on my rides, I've documented a handful of dangerous dogs and drivers, and I get great video from my races to share with other racers. I was able to share video witha friend who crashed and didn't understand why, and it helped him figure out what went wrong.
Crux of the matter - in the event of an accident, a camera MAY capture some useful information. It won't make drivers, dogs, other cyclists, or road hazards any safer. It WILL absolutely capture some cool things going on that you otherwise might not have seen.
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Last edited by bbbean; 09-29-22 at 02:36 PM.
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Fancy that. She decided to de-escalate and no longer incriminate herself the moment she knew she was being filmed.
For those who question whether visible cameras deter poor behavior, it's a well documented phenomenon known as the Observer Effect (or sometimes called Hawthorne Effect).
https://scholarworks.montana.edu/xml...=1&isAllowed=y
For those who question whether visible cameras deter poor behavior, it's a well documented phenomenon known as the Observer Effect (or sometimes called Hawthorne Effect).
https://scholarworks.montana.edu/xml...=1&isAllowed=y
Originally Posted by JW Fas;22662624[url
https://www.bodycamera.co.uk/blogs/news/what-is-the-observer-effect-and-why-people-act-differently-when-they-are-being-recorded
I appreciate the effort you put into establishing a logic to support your position, but nothing in the links you cite does so in any direct fashion. Bike cameras aren't analagous to body cams on cops or social psychology experiments with a human observer. It wouldn't be that hard to design a study that could test your hypothesis, but if it has been done, I haven't seen a citation.
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Last edited by bbbean; 09-29-22 at 03:24 PM.
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For those who question whether visible cameras deter poor behavior, it's a well documented phenomenon known as the Observer Effect (or sometimes called Hawthorne Effect).
https://scholarworks.montana.edu/xml...=1&isAllowed=y
https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-ha...ras-1408320244
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...mera/21997511/
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...ehavior-127762
https://www.bodycamera.co.uk/blogs/n...being-recorded
https://scholarworks.montana.edu/xml...=1&isAllowed=y
https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-ha...ras-1408320244
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...mera/21997511/
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...ehavior-127762
https://www.bodycamera.co.uk/blogs/n...being-recorded
I doubt people in cars are noticing small bumps on helmets. Your videos of bad-behaving people in cars is indication of that. The trash-thrower, especially, had lots of time to notice the bump and behaved badly anyway.
Last edited by njkayaker; 09-29-22 at 03:33 PM.
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I don't use my camera to prevent anything as I assume most will never see it or notice it.. I run it for a) piece of mind b) to capture evidence in case of an accident and c) capture other interesting things that happen like dogs chasing you, accidents behind me etc..
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