Drop bar vs flat bar tire clearance
01-12-23, 06:51 PM
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Geometry of the whole bike changed. Fork travel went from 60-80mm to 100-140mm as typical; add in the bigger 27.5/29er wheels, and the whole front of the bike is taller
TT length is longer too, so there’s not the need to “stretch out” like you had on a 26er
Except for hard-core XC racers, the rider position is more upright, with a wider stance. No one runs 540mm bars on 150 stems anymore.
And for whatever reason, a riser on a short stem works better than a straight bar on a taller, angled one, even when the grips end up in the same spot
TT length is longer too, so there’s not the need to “stretch out” like you had on a 26er
Except for hard-core XC racers, the rider position is more upright, with a wider stance. No one runs 540mm bars on 150 stems anymore.
And for whatever reason, a riser on a short stem works better than a straight bar on a taller, angled one, even when the grips end up in the same spot
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01-12-23, 07:36 PM
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Riser vs flat is a red herring. That only adjusts the height, and many newer long travel bikes run bars with minimal rise. It’s just a fit thing. Riser bar vs riser stem vs spacers vs taller head tube… all the same thing.
Its the bar width that has increased across the board. But there are narrow riser bars and wide flat (no-rise) bars.
So to answer the question about XC racing, they have not gone from flat to riser…. Rather they went from narrow bars with long stems and bar ends to wide bars and shorter stems and ditched the bar ends.
As far as why? For the same reason everyone else has. It just works better once you start riding a mountain bike like a mountain bike instead of a road bike.
Its the bar width that has increased across the board. But there are narrow riser bars and wide flat (no-rise) bars.
So to answer the question about XC racing, they have not gone from flat to riser…. Rather they went from narrow bars with long stems and bar ends to wide bars and shorter stems and ditched the bar ends.
As far as why? For the same reason everyone else has. It just works better once you start riding a mountain bike like a mountain bike instead of a road bike.
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01-12-23, 08:01 PM
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While flat bars typically only offer zero to 10º of backsweep, you can easily find risers with sweep up to 30º or more. To me, the sweep options are reason enough to go with a riser, even if the height is the same as a flat with a taller stem.
01-12-23, 08:25 PM
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Modern XC is much more technical than it was in the NORBA era, and the bikes are so much more capable. The bigger wheels and much more effective suspension means that you really don’t need all the monkey motion necessary on a hard tail 26er
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01-12-23, 10:43 PM
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Maybe I should give drops one more chance.
But I probably won’t.
But I probably won’t.
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01-12-23, 10:59 PM
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Good point. Downhill too. I don't even tell people I raced DH once because they're imagining something completely different.
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01-12-23, 11:11 PM
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If you ever wind up with a bike where a flat swept bar is needed, Surly Open Bar comes in a no-rise version. Unfortunately it comes in 25.4 stem clamp only. One of my favorite bars.
01-14-23, 05:58 AM
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It's going to be an absolutely amazing revelation to off-road motorcyclists that those flat bars that they use don't give them the best control.
And do bullhorn TT bars count as flat bars?
And do bullhorn TT bars count as flat bars?
01-14-23, 06:55 AM
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This thread is going off the rails in no small part because people are not all using “flat bar” in the same way.
When talking about flat versus drop bars, flat risers are usually considered a flat bar. This is true when talking about shifters and brake levers. Flat bar shifters are intended for riser bars as well as bars with zero rise.
Other people seem to be referring specifically to MTB style bars that have zero rise when they say “flat bar”.
Other people seem to be specifically referring to the older style MTB bar that was very narrow and had very little back sweep.
When talking about flat versus drop bars, flat risers are usually considered a flat bar. This is true when talking about shifters and brake levers. Flat bar shifters are intended for riser bars as well as bars with zero rise.
Other people seem to be referring specifically to MTB style bars that have zero rise when they say “flat bar”.
Other people seem to be specifically referring to the older style MTB bar that was very narrow and had very little back sweep.
Last edited by Kapusta; 01-14-23 at 07:00 AM.
01-14-23, 10:29 AM
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This thread is going off the rails in no small part because people are not all using “flat bar” in the same way.
When talking about flat versus drop bars, flat risers are usually considered a flat bar. This is true when talking about shifters and brake levers. Flat bar shifters are intended for riser bars as well as bars with zero rise.
Other people seem to be referring specifically to MTB style bars that have zero rise when they say “flat bar”.
Other people seem to be specifically referring to the older style MTB bar that was very narrow and had very little back sweep.
When talking about flat versus drop bars, flat risers are usually considered a flat bar. This is true when talking about shifters and brake levers. Flat bar shifters are intended for riser bars as well as bars with zero rise.
Other people seem to be referring specifically to MTB style bars that have zero rise when they say “flat bar”.
Other people seem to be specifically referring to the older style MTB bar that was very narrow and had very little back sweep.
Nah, most of us, who ride multiple styles of bike understand that "Flat Bar" means the whole category of MTB / hybrids that aren't Drop Bars.
( Excepting high-rise BMX bars, and Swept Bars like North Roads/Albatross bars)
There's only one poster who insists on trying to split the difference between risers and flat-flat bars; and he always takes everything too seriously.
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01-15-23, 06:34 AM
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Nah, most of us, who ride multiple styles of bike understand that "Flat Bar" means the whole category of MTB / hybrids that aren't Drop Bars.
( Excepting high-rise BMX bars, and Swept Bars like North Roads/Albatross bars)
There's only one poster who insists on trying to split the difference between risers and flat-flat bars; and he always takes everything too seriously.
( Excepting high-rise BMX bars, and Swept Bars like North Roads/Albatross bars)
There's only one poster who insists on trying to split the difference between risers and flat-flat bars; and he always takes everything too seriously.
It is also correct to use the term to mean zero rise when used in the context of “flat vs riser”. And there are at least 3 people in this thread using that way…. Even though this is not the correct context for this thread.
01-15-23, 06:44 AM
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01-15-23, 07:00 AM
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In recent years there's been an increase in tire clearance for drop bar bikes. I've always viewed these massive clearances as somewhat unnecessary, because there's a tipping point where you're simply better off with a flat bar bike due to the improved handling a flat bar provides.
My question: What is the tipping point in regards to tire width where you're better off using flat bars?
My question: What is the tipping point in regards to tire width where you're better off using flat bars?
Honestly I think you’d reach the tipping point in energy loss due to added tire weight on traditional gravel roads, before you’d realize the need for wider flat bars.
01-15-23, 08:28 AM
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I think tire width has mostly to do with trail/road surface, and flat/drop has more to do with how technically challenging it is.
The two generally correlate, but not always.
If I were doing a long ride on really broken up dirt roads, I might want mtb width tires, but more of a gravel type fit with drop bars.
I’m thinking of some of the minimally maintained dirt roads I encounter out west. Rough, but not really technical, and having a good set up for putting down a lot of miles is more important than maximizing handeling.
But living in the Easter US, I just don’t find that very often. Dirt roads here quickly turn to serious crap if not maintained fairly regularly, so I generally find that either I am trail riding and want a real MTB, or I am on a road, and even the worst dirt roads are not so bad that 42mm tires would not be fine.
The two generally correlate, but not always.
If I were doing a long ride on really broken up dirt roads, I might want mtb width tires, but more of a gravel type fit with drop bars.
I’m thinking of some of the minimally maintained dirt roads I encounter out west. Rough, but not really technical, and having a good set up for putting down a lot of miles is more important than maximizing handeling.
But living in the Easter US, I just don’t find that very often. Dirt roads here quickly turn to serious crap if not maintained fairly regularly, so I generally find that either I am trail riding and want a real MTB, or I am on a road, and even the worst dirt roads are not so bad that 42mm tires would not be fine.
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01-16-23, 03:11 AM
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Its not worth it, I just went through this trying to find flat/alt bars that are comfortable and I’ve yet to find one. Much work and many dollars that I’ll never get back went into that search on to go back to what I started with.
All of this is personal preference
All of this is personal preference
