It just doesnt make any sense
11-02-21, 05:16 AM
#251
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I am not sure what faster shifting has to do with anything. Some would dispute whether electronic shifting is actually faster. I did not see 11s etap as especially fast. I understand 12s AXS is faster but I have not installed mine yet, need the chain and cassette to complete the group.
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11-02-21, 05:19 AM
#252
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For sure I'll bet there are a LOT of triples out there with completely showroom fresh unused outer chainrings. In the MTB world triples eventually led to the double+bash market for those who realised that the outer ring was a waste of time off-road.
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11-02-21, 05:27 AM
#253
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@rydabent threw out some incorrect and biased crap and we have been standing in crap flinging it around for six pages .......We all know all this stuff ... There is nothing to debate except how much each of us wants to debate .... And of course, My level contentiousness is correct .... Everyone else’s is insufficient or excessive.
11-02-21, 05:29 AM
#254
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@rydabent threw out some incorrect and biased crap and we have been standing in crap flinging it around for six pages .......We all know all this stuff ... There is nothing to debate except how much each of us wants to debate .... And of course, My level contentiousness is correct .... Everyone else’s is insufficient or excessive.
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11-02-21, 05:31 AM
#255
Jedi Master
Start at the top and work your way down the gears:
For 3x9: 14 gears in sequence
46 x 12 , 14 , 16 , 18 , 21 , 24 (then shift to middle ring and back one gear on the cassette)
36 x 21 , 24 , 28 , 32 (then shift to small ring and back 2 gears on the cassette)
26 x 24 , 28 , 32 , 36
For 2x12: 15 gears in sequence
43 x 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 15 , 17 , 19 , 21 , 24 , 28 (then shift to small ring and back 2 gears on the cassette)
30 x 21 , 24 , 28 , 32 , 36
The unused gears don't offer gear ratios that are significantly different than those in the sequence, and you'd have to double shift to get to them.
On edit:
The last triple setup I had was a 52/39/26 with a 10 Spd 12-23 cassette. It had an average step size of only 7%, and 21 non-redundant gears. It was very nice with one big exception -- you had to shift back 4 to 6 gears on the cassette when you shifted to a different chain ring. Ugh.
For 3x9: 14 gears in sequence
46 x 12 , 14 , 16 , 18 , 21 , 24 (then shift to middle ring and back one gear on the cassette)
36 x 21 , 24 , 28 , 32 (then shift to small ring and back 2 gears on the cassette)
26 x 24 , 28 , 32 , 36
For 2x12: 15 gears in sequence
43 x 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 15 , 17 , 19 , 21 , 24 , 28 (then shift to small ring and back 2 gears on the cassette)
30 x 21 , 24 , 28 , 32 , 36
The unused gears don't offer gear ratios that are significantly different than those in the sequence, and you'd have to double shift to get to them.
On edit:
The last triple setup I had was a 52/39/26 with a 10 Spd 12-23 cassette. It had an average step size of only 7%, and 21 non-redundant gears. It was very nice with one big exception -- you had to shift back 4 to 6 gears on the cassette when you shifted to a different chain ring. Ugh.
11-02-21, 05:32 AM
#256
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1. There never was a mainstream market for triples but there was a loyal, albeit small market for them
2. 1X only makes sense for gravel and Mtb
3. 1X tooth jumps is too high for road use and the gaps are annoying and it only solves the problem of cyclists too lazy to learn to shift.
2. 1X only makes sense for gravel and Mtb
3. 1X tooth jumps is too high for road use and the gaps are annoying and it only solves the problem of cyclists too lazy to learn to shift.
11-02-21, 06:13 AM
#257
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Saaaaayyyy, did I mention I also use laced cycling shoes? No BOAs or velcro straps for me. I don't need that new fangled tech. I can't seem to find many high end laced models. Big Bike trying to limit my choices.
I also wear cycling socks with 1" cuffs. The longer cuffs are for posers and people with chicken legs that need definition.
I also wear cycling socks with 1" cuffs. The longer cuffs are for posers and people with chicken legs that need definition.
Last edited by seypat; 11-02-21 at 06:26 AM.
11-02-21, 06:30 AM
#258
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Saaaaayyyy, did I mention I also use laced cycling shoes? No BOAs or velcro straps for me. I don't need that new fangled tech. I can't seem to find many high end laced models. Big Bike trying to limit my choices.
I also wear cycling socks with 1" length. The longer lengths are for posers and people with chicken legs that need definition.
I also wear cycling socks with 1" length. The longer lengths are for posers and people with chicken legs that need definition.
11-02-21, 06:44 AM
#259
Jedi Master
...Anyway, blah, blah, blah. Every use case has it’s specific needs, but it seems like they could make a 2x setup that might fit your bill if they wanted to. But I’m guessing that they don’t feel there is a market to sell it to anyway. Also, I can imagine that needing to recharge derailleur batteries on a long back country tour could be problematic. Oh, and the group will run you $2k…
11-02-21, 07:03 AM
#260
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Thanks for explaining that. I see how you are coming up with the numbers 14 and 15 now, but I think we're comparing different things. See what Maelochs said. I am a special-needs rider.
As a history buff, though, I find it interesting that people's version of the "triple story" absolutely ignores hybrids, which were a huge portion of the bicycles being marketed and sold for a couple of decades, and which very frequently sported triples despite being basically useless off-road (see, especially, the unfortunately labeled "comfort bikes"). I think what's happened is that the hybrid designation has gone down the memory hole so people are ignoring the thing that probably accounted for most of the triple sales for several years.
11-02-21, 07:25 AM
#261
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hybrids were around for closer to 20 years and they all had triples iirc. those riders have been shuttled into e-bikes
11-02-21, 07:26 AM
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"Hybrids" or whatever people choose to call them (as far as I recall) came about After MTBs became mainstream--and MTBs took up triples very early on---way before suspension---because off-road riders realized they needed really low gears to climb steep hills but still wanted to hammer on the flats. 48-38-28 morphed into 42-32-22 as I recall (having owned one of each) ... with the 42 thing coming in around the same time as suspension.
Then manufacturers realized that a lot of people were buying MTBs and riding them on the road---probably because they were flat-bar bikes, which a lot of people wanted. Eventually "hybrids" or "city bikes" or whatever were offered--slightly more road-oriented, less robust and less heavy MTB-style bikes with narrower tires, tread but no knobs, and more road-oriented gearing (48-38-28) and with lighter, smaller-diameter short-travel front forks (back when 80 mm was a lot of travel.)
Hybrids are still about the only lace where triples are offered. However, most people who are buying hybrids are not "serious" riders, in that they never intend to use the equipment anywhere near its limits .... and those folks aren't interested in what tier of components they have. They aren't about to pay another several thousand dollars for Ultegra or whatever .... they are fine with the low-tier components which work well enough for the lower-stress applications.
You can find lots of brand-new "Shimano-equipped" hybrids with triples, but they are all lower-end parts.
Then manufacturers realized that a lot of people were buying MTBs and riding them on the road---probably because they were flat-bar bikes, which a lot of people wanted. Eventually "hybrids" or "city bikes" or whatever were offered--slightly more road-oriented, less robust and less heavy MTB-style bikes with narrower tires, tread but no knobs, and more road-oriented gearing (48-38-28) and with lighter, smaller-diameter short-travel front forks (back when 80 mm was a lot of travel.)
Hybrids are still about the only lace where triples are offered. However, most people who are buying hybrids are not "serious" riders, in that they never intend to use the equipment anywhere near its limits .... and those folks aren't interested in what tier of components they have. They aren't about to pay another several thousand dollars for Ultegra or whatever .... they are fine with the low-tier components which work well enough for the lower-stress applications.
You can find lots of brand-new "Shimano-equipped" hybrids with triples, but they are all lower-end parts.
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11-02-21, 07:32 AM
#263
Jedi Master
No argument with this. But I think the need for both super-low and super-high gearing simultaneously is actually a rare requirement. I expect a modern 2x11 or 2x12 would suit most guys looking for a Touring setup eg. Shimano GRX. The only small sacrifice is a bit of top end gearing that most people would never use anyway. 2x12 gives you a lot of gears to play with over a pretty wide range. 3x12 gives you even more of course, but who really needs that much resolution? People on this thread lamenting the passing of 3x drivetrains are mostly talking about older 3x9 setups, where a triple still made some sense over a 2x9.
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11-02-21, 07:37 AM
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11-02-21, 07:39 AM
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11-02-21, 07:41 AM
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Here in Minnesota, which has more hills than people might imagine, a double is just fine for me, and in truth, I seldom use the small chain ring on some of my bikes.
11-02-21, 07:43 AM
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"Hybrids" or whatever people choose to call them (as far as I recall) came about After MTBs became mainstream--and MTBs took up triples very early on---way before suspension---because off-road riders realized they needed really low gears to climb steep hills but still wanted to hammer on the flats. 48-38-28 morphed into 42-32-22 as I recall (having owned one of each) ... with the 42 thing coming in around the same time as suspension.
Then manufacturers realized that a lot of people were buying MTBs and riding them on the road---probably because they were flat-bar bikes, which a lot of people wanted. Eventually "hybrids" or "city bikes" or whatever were offered--slightly more road-oriented, less robust and less heavy MTB-style bikes with narrower tires, tread but no knobs, and more road-oriented gearing (48-38-28) and with lighter, smaller-diameter short-travel front forks (back when 80 mm was a lot of travel.)
Hybrids are still about the only lace where triples are offered. However, most people who are buying hybrids are not "serious" riders, in that they never intend to use the equipment anywhere near its limits .... and those folks aren't interested in what tier of components they have. They aren't about to pay another several thousand dollars for Ultegra or whatever .... they are fine with the low-tier components which work well enough for the lower-stress applications.
You can find lots of brand-new "Shimano-equipped" hybrids with triples, but they are all lower-end parts.
Then manufacturers realized that a lot of people were buying MTBs and riding them on the road---probably because they were flat-bar bikes, which a lot of people wanted. Eventually "hybrids" or "city bikes" or whatever were offered--slightly more road-oriented, less robust and less heavy MTB-style bikes with narrower tires, tread but no knobs, and more road-oriented gearing (48-38-28) and with lighter, smaller-diameter short-travel front forks (back when 80 mm was a lot of travel.)
Hybrids are still about the only lace where triples are offered. However, most people who are buying hybrids are not "serious" riders, in that they never intend to use the equipment anywhere near its limits .... and those folks aren't interested in what tier of components they have. They aren't about to pay another several thousand dollars for Ultegra or whatever .... they are fine with the low-tier components which work well enough for the lower-stress applications.
You can find lots of brand-new "Shimano-equipped" hybrids with triples, but they are all lower-end parts.
11-02-21, 07:45 AM
#268
Senior Member
Did you not read my comment? I said if I needed one I would have one. This whole discussion is stupid. No gearing is right for everyone, use what works for you.
11-02-21, 07:45 AM
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11-02-21, 07:47 AM
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Good attempt, but I guess you haven't looked for laced cycling shoes very recently. In the last few years, there has been quite a proliferation of laced shoes, from the likes of Specialized, Giro, Pearl Izumi, Mavic, Scott, Rapha, etc. with models up to the $400 price range, which I'd consider high end.
11-02-21, 08:48 AM
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I don't see anyone asking for a 3x12. Just that modern 2x and 1x systems don't work as well for touring as the 3x9's we already have. I play around with gearing calculators a lot and haven't found one that has both the range and spacing that would work for me as well as my current setup.
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11-02-21, 08:51 AM
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I don't see anyone asking for a 3x12. Just that modern 2x and 1x systems don't work as well for touring as the 3x9's we already have. I play around with gearing calculators a lot and haven't found one that has both the range and spacing that would work for me as well as my current setup.
Last edited by PeteHski; 11-02-21 at 08:55 AM.
11-02-21, 08:56 AM
#273
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This whole thread is nothing but a online version of cockfighting. The experienced long time member OP knew exactly what the result would be and the usual suspects jump in. Classic is the idiot who throws in “The Alpes aren’t steep” comment. A vast majority of this forum are nothing but trolling threads to debate known contentious issues. I mean really, 3x9 drivetrains are something anyone other than some nostalgic old timer is looking for? With that I am out, maybe will check into the forum in a few months or so but time to move on. Nothing to see here.
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11-02-21, 09:10 AM
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