Riding through the "ghetto"
10-18-10, 12:45 PM
#76
genec
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Oddly enough a chick on a bike is safer in a sketchy neighborhood. Most of the time it is cat calls, "Nice azz", wolf whistles, compliments, etc. Never mind the fact I am a Caucasian middle age light Athena in full lycra *cringe*. (Only once a speeding car tried to take me out with an open passenger door, but these were most likely drugged out of their mind). On the other hand a guy would have faced entirely different predicament.
That said, I ride fast, stay sharp, carry pepper spray, have invested in good puncture-resistant tires (conti 4-seasons) and would not dare to venture a single block away from the arterial, nor ride there after dark.
Good Luck
SF
That said, I ride fast, stay sharp, carry pepper spray, have invested in good puncture-resistant tires (conti 4-seasons) and would not dare to venture a single block away from the arterial, nor ride there after dark.
Good Luck
SF
For those that say avoid the area... hard to do if you need to be just on the other side of said area.
10-18-10, 01:10 PM
#78
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How do I "know"? Because I am a gun owner that regularly shoots my guns. I am familiar with all the guns I own and can operate them in the dark without much thought.
There are many stories of gun owners assaulted in various ways only to retreive their gun and shoot their attacker. It happens in many home invasion robberies.
Here are some stories for you:
Ipswich Chronicle, Ipswich, MA, 7/9/98 State: MA
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/1998
David Ellis, a city councilor for Lynn, Massachusetts, was on his bicycle conducting a midnight crime patrol when he spotted four men harassing an elderly woman in her car. Moving to intervene, Ellis confronted the men, then began to use his cell phone to call for help. The men charged, knocking Ellis off his bike, kicking him in the head and yelling, "Kill him!" Ellis reacted by pulling a .357 Mag. handgun and firing into the group. He then ran to a nearby house and called police. Two of the four were later caught and charged with armed robbery.
The Sentinel, Orlando, FL, 10/18/97
State: FL
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/1998
Peter Sabatini of Orlando was riding his bicycle one afternoon when he was attacked by a youth armed with what later turned out to be a pellet pistol. The attacker threatened him with the gun and tried to take the bike. Fearing for his life, Sabatini, a carry permit holder, drew his .45 pistol and fatally shot his assailant. The youth had a criminal history.
The Times, Seattle, WA, 4/12/90
State: WA
American Rifleman Issue: 6/1/1990
A Seattle, Wash., man was riding his bicycle when he saw a group of 20 to 30 young people standing along the street. The bicyclist crossed the steet to avoid them, but some of the group pursued and attacked him. They pulled him off the bicycle, knocked him to the ground and continued to beat him. The man drew his registered handgun and shot one of the youths to halt the attack. The wounded attacker, who was identified by police as a teen gang member, fled but was later apprehended by police and charged with assault.
There are many stories of gun owners assaulted in various ways only to retreive their gun and shoot their attacker. It happens in many home invasion robberies.
Here are some stories for you:
Ipswich Chronicle, Ipswich, MA, 7/9/98 State: MA
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/1998
David Ellis, a city councilor for Lynn, Massachusetts, was on his bicycle conducting a midnight crime patrol when he spotted four men harassing an elderly woman in her car. Moving to intervene, Ellis confronted the men, then began to use his cell phone to call for help. The men charged, knocking Ellis off his bike, kicking him in the head and yelling, "Kill him!" Ellis reacted by pulling a .357 Mag. handgun and firing into the group. He then ran to a nearby house and called police. Two of the four were later caught and charged with armed robbery.
The Sentinel, Orlando, FL, 10/18/97
State: FL
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/1998
Peter Sabatini of Orlando was riding his bicycle one afternoon when he was attacked by a youth armed with what later turned out to be a pellet pistol. The attacker threatened him with the gun and tried to take the bike. Fearing for his life, Sabatini, a carry permit holder, drew his .45 pistol and fatally shot his assailant. The youth had a criminal history.
The Times, Seattle, WA, 4/12/90
State: WA
American Rifleman Issue: 6/1/1990
A Seattle, Wash., man was riding his bicycle when he saw a group of 20 to 30 young people standing along the street. The bicyclist crossed the steet to avoid them, but some of the group pursued and attacked him. They pulled him off the bicycle, knocked him to the ground and continued to beat him. The man drew his registered handgun and shot one of the youths to halt the attack. The wounded attacker, who was identified by police as a teen gang member, fled but was later apprehended by police and charged with assault.
Of the muggings I'm talking about, no one has been killed. In your 1st and 3rd incidents, the guys knew going in they were in dangerous situations. In the second, the very likely outcome of not having gun would have been a stolen bicycle instead of a dead kid.
Last edited by tjspiel; 10-18-10 at 03:02 PM.
10-18-10, 01:25 PM
#80
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I can make that statement the same way that people in the cycling community can make a statement about most cyclists. I have been in the gun community for years.
With regards to the stories I posted, I have no sympathy for criminals. If you want to defend them, then go right ahead. No one has the right to beat another person up and rob them. If in the act of doing so, the perp loses their life, then too bad for them. They should have picked a less anti-social form of work.
What those stories do show is that not only is it possible to defend yourself with a gun when cycling, it has already been done. The situation that you imply is impossible is not impossible at all. In two of the stories, the cyclist was pulled off their bike and were being beaten. During the beating, they were both able to draw their guns and defend themselves.
With regards to the stories I posted, I have no sympathy for criminals. If you want to defend them, then go right ahead. No one has the right to beat another person up and rob them. If in the act of doing so, the perp loses their life, then too bad for them. They should have picked a less anti-social form of work.
What those stories do show is that not only is it possible to defend yourself with a gun when cycling, it has already been done. The situation that you imply is impossible is not impossible at all. In two of the stories, the cyclist was pulled off their bike and were being beaten. During the beating, they were both able to draw their guns and defend themselves.
10-18-10, 01:37 PM
#81
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again... I LIKE THIS THREAD
I'm a combat vet, clean record, pay taxes, etc...
I have not fired a firearm since I left the military
I had a 14 year career working in a hospital, helping tend an ICU, ER, etc...
Salinas is just a few miles away...
not that I ride in Salinas, much...
but...
not that a helmet cam, cell phone, lights, or no lights, fast, slow, stealth, or being "cool" is any replacement for Personal Safety.
in so many ways, I think it would be interesting, and a prime opportunity to video the commute, and the goings on
simple documentation is an awesome method.
along that tangent, I'd also run a GPS, thereby being able to exactly (within 20ft) document time and place.
I'm not too sure if there is anything wrong with surveillance and documentation.
you never know... it could be a very useful tool.
I'm thinking that's called, "Intel"
it would be easy enough to record your rides, burn them to a DVD, and turn them into the Police, simply as documentation.
you never know... you may be a community asset.
I'm a combat vet, clean record, pay taxes, etc...
I have not fired a firearm since I left the military
I had a 14 year career working in a hospital, helping tend an ICU, ER, etc...
Salinas is just a few miles away...
not that I ride in Salinas, much...
but...
not that a helmet cam, cell phone, lights, or no lights, fast, slow, stealth, or being "cool" is any replacement for Personal Safety.
in so many ways, I think it would be interesting, and a prime opportunity to video the commute, and the goings on
simple documentation is an awesome method.
along that tangent, I'd also run a GPS, thereby being able to exactly (within 20ft) document time and place.
I'm not too sure if there is anything wrong with surveillance and documentation.
you never know... it could be a very useful tool.
I'm thinking that's called, "Intel"
it would be easy enough to record your rides, burn them to a DVD, and turn them into the Police, simply as documentation.
you never know... you may be a community asset.
10-18-10, 01:56 PM
#82
keep moving forward...
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I usually try to stay as visible to the general public as possible, i.e. stay in places where there is a little more traffic simply for the fact that you are seen by a few more people. I used to live in a ghetto myself, and for the most part people will leave you alone unless you draw all kinds of attention to yourself. Myself personally, I tend to stay away from the lycra, and usually carry some kind of sharp pointy somewhere on me.
10-18-10, 02:08 PM
#83
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I can make that statement the same way that people in the cycling community can make a statement about most cyclists. I have been in the gun community for years.
With regards to the stories I posted, I have no sympathy for criminals. If you want to defend them, then go right ahead. No one has the right to beat another person up and rob them. If in the act of doing so, the perp loses their life, then too bad for them. They should have picked a less anti-social form of work.
What those stories do show is that not only is it possible to defend yourself with a gun when cycling, it has already been done. The situation that you imply is impossible is not impossible at all. In two of the stories, the cyclist was pulled off their bike and were being beaten. During the beating, they were both able to draw their guns and defend themselves.
With regards to the stories I posted, I have no sympathy for criminals. If you want to defend them, then go right ahead. No one has the right to beat another person up and rob them. If in the act of doing so, the perp loses their life, then too bad for them. They should have picked a less anti-social form of work.
What those stories do show is that not only is it possible to defend yourself with a gun when cycling, it has already been done. The situation that you imply is impossible is not impossible at all. In two of the stories, the cyclist was pulled off their bike and were being beaten. During the beating, they were both able to draw their guns and defend themselves.
The cyclists in the muggings had a different experience. One second they're riding along, the next second they're on the ground. Different scenarios. It's much easier to keep your wits about you if you see it coming.
In the situation with the Pellet gun it's totally understandable that the guy shot him. Would have likely done it myself if I'd had a gun. But I'd rather get my bike stolen than have to kill somebody.
10-18-10, 02:09 PM
#84
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I usually try to stay as visible to the general public as possible, i.e. stay in places where there is a little more traffic simply for the fact that you are seen by a few more people. I used to live in a ghetto myself, and for the most part people will leave you alone unless you draw all kinds of attention to yourself. Myself personally, I tend to stay away from the lycra, and usually carry some kind of sharp pointy somewhere on me.
10-18-10, 02:24 PM
#85
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I refuse to carry a gun, and pepper spray is to random and clumsy like a blaster pistol. I ride all over Los Angeles, and go to some sketchy places in order to get from gig to gig. I fit my frame with a quick release bracket to hold my .38 caliber U-Lock. Only had to use it once, and it wasn't on an assailant, it was on a friend who wouldn't quit hitting the buckle on my bag. I forget which American president it was who said, speak softly but carry a big u-lock. Just remember you gun toters, put your hand cannon away. You don't want to bring a gun to a u-lock fight. I'll show you the meaning of Kryptonite.
Carry a big u-lock kid, no one messes with a guy riding hell bent for leather screaming the lyrics to a random Metallica song, while wildly waving a u-lock over his head. Remember, ride quietly and they may not assault you but they will laugh at you. Ride like a lunatic and they will make you their leader.
Carry a big u-lock kid, no one messes with a guy riding hell bent for leather screaming the lyrics to a random Metallica song, while wildly waving a u-lock over his head. Remember, ride quietly and they may not assault you but they will laugh at you. Ride like a lunatic and they will make you their leader.
10-18-10, 02:28 PM
#87
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"speak softly and carry a big stick" <--- I'm pretty sure that was Teddy Roosevelt
10-18-10, 02:55 PM
#88
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Haha, Shirley for a ghettocruiser you must carry machine guns, pepper spray, knives, sharp sticks. I bet you have to be ready to distribute ulock justice at the drop of a hat - even if it's your friend. Blast a cap in that guy cuz they decided to try and push you around. bup bup.
Tell us how afraid you are.
Tell us how afraid you are.
10-18-10, 04:35 PM
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Carry a big u-lock kid, no one messes with a guy riding hell bent for leather screaming the lyrics to a random Metallica song, while wildly waving a u-lock over his head. Remember, ride quietly and they may not assault you but they will laugh at you. Ride like a lunatic and they will make you their leader.
10-18-10, 04:57 PM
#90
CRIKEY!!!!!!!
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I refuse to carry a gun, and pepper spray is to random and clumsy like a blaster pistol. I ride all over Los Angeles, and go to some sketchy places in order to get from gig to gig. I fit my frame with a quick release bracket to hold my .38 caliber U-Lock. Only had to use it once, and it wasn't on an assailant, it was on a friend who wouldn't quit hitting the buckle on my bag. I forget which American president it was who said, speak softly but carry a big u-lock. Just remember you gun toters, put your hand cannon away. You don't want to bring a gun to a u-lock fight. I'll show you the meaning of Kryptonite.
Carry a big u-lock kid, no one messes with a guy riding hell bent for leather screaming the lyrics to a random Metallica song, while wildly waving a u-lock over his head. Remember, ride quietly and they may not assault you but they will laugh at you. Ride like a lunatic and they will make you their leader.
Carry a big u-lock kid, no one messes with a guy riding hell bent for leather screaming the lyrics to a random Metallica song, while wildly waving a u-lock over his head. Remember, ride quietly and they may not assault you but they will laugh at you. Ride like a lunatic and they will make you their leader.
eff'n classic!
....I don't do Metalliaca lyrics, I prefer SPARTA!
Last edited by Cyclaholic; 10-18-10 at 05:01 PM.
10-18-10, 05:32 PM
#92
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depends.
if it was contemporary thrash metal some of today's kids listen to, then no, i don't think any more of that crowd than the rap crowd. If is was Zeppelin or Rush, I'd probably pull over and listen for awhile.
if it was contemporary thrash metal some of today's kids listen to, then no, i don't think any more of that crowd than the rap crowd. If is was Zeppelin or Rush, I'd probably pull over and listen for awhile.
10-18-10, 05:34 PM
#93
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10-19-10, 07:20 AM
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being afraid of the "ghetto" is akin to being afraid of clowns. or spiders. or the boogeyman.
10-19-10, 08:33 AM
#96
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My main drag a few years back was Orton Park and Lawrence during the much-media-hyped "Galloway Boyz/Malvern Crew turf war".
But all I ever got riding thru da' ghetto was propz from my peepz.
Okay, they were actually somebody else's peepz, but whatever.
I'm not gonna pretend to have any idea what happens in other countries.
But all I ever got riding thru da' ghetto was propz from my peepz.
Okay, they were actually somebody else's peepz, but whatever.
I'm not gonna pretend to have any idea what happens in other countries.
10-19-10, 08:42 AM
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It seems to me, that the best thing you can do to protect yourself, is to plan a route where you don't have to make any drastic turns, and where you don't get to close to any areas where someone could jump out at you. Then, as has already been suggested, buy some really truly puncture resistant tires. If you commute regularly, you are surely faster on your bike, than anyone is on foot. If you don't give them the chance to get the jump on you, then you will be fine.
But perhaps more to the point, you should ask yourself whether these people you are afraid of, actually have any interest in you. I live in what is unarguably one of the roughest cities in America. Looking closely at the crime here, you find two things that are encouraging from the perspective of a bike commuter, or really from the perspective of anyone who isn't involved in criminal activity. First, most criminals aren't stupid. Second, robbing innocent passersby is a very low percentage play. Robbing them, and hurting them in the process, is even dumber. Does it happen occasionally? Sure. But on the whole, it doesn't happen in a much higher volume than in affluent areas where people don't expect it. I can't speak with authority to the situations in other cities, but in my city most criminals make their money selling drugs. And when someone is harmed, it almost always can be traced back to drugs. Maybe once or twice in a year you hear about a real tragedy where someone is targeted completely randomly. More often, if an innocent person is hurt or killed, it's because they caught a stray (a situation where being armed one's self affords no protection). In these situations the police always always seem to find the perpetrators, and the prosecutors come down on them like a ton of bricks. Once again, contrary to what a lot of people seem to think, criminals are mostly rationale beings. They aren't going to risk incarceration for the few bucks that might be in your wallet, or the few more that they might get from hawking your bike on the street, when they can make real money in the drug trade. And if they do decide to rob you--because they are just that desperate--they probably aren't going to seriously injure you, because why should they add assault or murder to a robbery charge, for no extra gain.
We've have had a few bike muggings here, but they happened mostly in a "good" area of the city, along a stretch of switchbacks. From what I've heard, the perpetrators were local teenagers, not hardened criminals. So once again, stay away from places where people can get the jump on you, and you will almost certainly be fine. Personally, I've found that reckless and aggressive drivers are by far the bigger threat, and as has been said, they seem far more prevalent in affluent suburbs. There is risk in everything, but in terms of crime you really only need to worry about sociopaths, and they exist in every segment of society. When riding in what you perceive as "the hood," you should try to be street smart, not paranoid.
But perhaps more to the point, you should ask yourself whether these people you are afraid of, actually have any interest in you. I live in what is unarguably one of the roughest cities in America. Looking closely at the crime here, you find two things that are encouraging from the perspective of a bike commuter, or really from the perspective of anyone who isn't involved in criminal activity. First, most criminals aren't stupid. Second, robbing innocent passersby is a very low percentage play. Robbing them, and hurting them in the process, is even dumber. Does it happen occasionally? Sure. But on the whole, it doesn't happen in a much higher volume than in affluent areas where people don't expect it. I can't speak with authority to the situations in other cities, but in my city most criminals make their money selling drugs. And when someone is harmed, it almost always can be traced back to drugs. Maybe once or twice in a year you hear about a real tragedy where someone is targeted completely randomly. More often, if an innocent person is hurt or killed, it's because they caught a stray (a situation where being armed one's self affords no protection). In these situations the police always always seem to find the perpetrators, and the prosecutors come down on them like a ton of bricks. Once again, contrary to what a lot of people seem to think, criminals are mostly rationale beings. They aren't going to risk incarceration for the few bucks that might be in your wallet, or the few more that they might get from hawking your bike on the street, when they can make real money in the drug trade. And if they do decide to rob you--because they are just that desperate--they probably aren't going to seriously injure you, because why should they add assault or murder to a robbery charge, for no extra gain.
We've have had a few bike muggings here, but they happened mostly in a "good" area of the city, along a stretch of switchbacks. From what I've heard, the perpetrators were local teenagers, not hardened criminals. So once again, stay away from places where people can get the jump on you, and you will almost certainly be fine. Personally, I've found that reckless and aggressive drivers are by far the bigger threat, and as has been said, they seem far more prevalent in affluent suburbs. There is risk in everything, but in terms of crime you really only need to worry about sociopaths, and they exist in every segment of society. When riding in what you perceive as "the hood," you should try to be street smart, not paranoid.
10-19-10, 10:11 AM
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10-19-10, 10:12 AM
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10-19-10, 10:37 AM
#100
eMail Sold to Spammers
There are very legitimate reasons be apprehensive about riding through the "ghetto". The biggest is that half of the risidents own a protective breeds of dog, i.e. pitbull, german shepard, or rott. These dogs get loose often and regularly attack people. The owners are either not home or don't care that their dog is biting you.
Then there are the residents themselves. If they see someone riding through in a biking outfit, then they see that person as an easy mark. If they are high on meth or crack, then they just might decide that they can get the $50 they need for their next hit by hitting you repeatedly, taking your money, stealing your ID and selling your bike for $20.
If you don't believe me, I know a few addresses in my town with crack houses from when I was a mailman for 10 years. You might not get jumped the first day or the first week that you ride by. But at some time, one of those crack heads will attack you.
