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Another newbie question

Old 09-27-22, 04:03 PM
  #26  
big john
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
The original Paramounts were made in Chicago, first by Emil Wastyn and later in a special section of Schwinn's Chicago factory. By the mid 80s, Paramount production was moved to a new facility in Waterford Wisconsin (not Waterloo Wisconsin; that's Trek's factory). When Schwinn was sold, the Waterford facility was spun off into a new entity headed by Richard Schwinn (Waterford Precision Cycles).

"No Hands" is an engaging history of the Schwinn Bicycle Company.
Thanks for the correction. I got confused again! Even says made in Waterford on my Gunnar.
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Old 09-27-22, 06:46 PM
  #27  
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That book would make an interesting reading. I wonder why did Schwinn fail out of grace.

Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
The original Paramounts were made in Chicago, first by Emil Wastyn and later in a special section of Schwinn's Chicago factory. By the mid 80s, Paramount production was moved to a new facility in Waterford Wisconsin (not Waterloo Wisconsin; that's Trek's factory). When Schwinn was sold, the Waterford facility was spun off into a new entity headed by Richard Schwinn (Waterford Precision Cycles).

"No Hands" is an engaging history of the Schwinn Bicycle Company.
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Old 09-27-22, 07:56 PM
  #28  
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Drink more wine.
Vague meaningless adjectives will start to make more sense
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Old 09-28-22, 02:45 AM
  #29  
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It's no different to describing the ride and handling of cars. Same basic factors affect all kinds of vehicles ie. mass, geometry, compliance. So you can expect a stiff, lightweight road racing bike to feel "nimble", "lively", "twitchy", "quick" etc. While a heavy, utilitarian hybrid bike might be described as "stable", "forgiving", "comfortable" or whatever other subjective traits come to mind!
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Old 09-28-22, 06:04 AM
  #30  
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Good analogy. Makes sense.

Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
It's no different to describing the ride and handling of cars. Same basic factors affect all kinds of vehicles ie. mass, geometry, compliance. So you can expect a stiff, lightweight road racing bike to feel "nimble", "lively", "twitchy", "quick" etc. While a heavy, utilitarian hybrid bike might be described as "stable", "forgiving", "comfortable" or whatever other subjective traits come to mind!
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Old 09-28-22, 06:05 AM
  #31  
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The sensibility of the adjective is proportionate to the alcohol concentration in the blood

Originally Posted by grantelmwood View Post
Drink more wine.
Vague meaningless adjectives will start to make more sense
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Old 09-28-22, 06:06 AM
  #32  
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Nice bike!
Originally Posted by big john View Post
Thanks for the correction. I got confused again! Even says made in Waterford on my Gunnar.
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Old 09-28-22, 07:54 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by sbuckaroo View Post
That book would make an interesting reading. I wonder why did Schwinn fail out of grace.
The Schwinn name was bought by a large conglomerate just like many other names/brands were including Masi, Motobecane, GT, Mongoose, Murray, and Cannondale. These names are all owned by Pacific Cycles, part of Dorel.
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Old 09-30-22, 12:33 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by sbuckaroo View Post
I know this is a stupid question for an old dude like myself! But hope you indulge me.

I read many adjectives about the type of ride, as in "lively", "dead", "Twitchy", etc.

Could you help me understand what do these terms mean? I have three steel bikes: a 2017 Kona wheelhouse, a 1991 schwinn paramount series 3, and a late 80's IRO single speed. Should I tell a difference amongst them in terms of ride quality? Thanks in advance!
You have 3 steel alloy frame bikes. That in itself may indicate why you're asking the question. Indulge a little and get a different frame material bike to tryout. It's like in many other things. A chef will taste a particular dish like even spaghetti and tell you what it is about.
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Old 09-30-22, 01:00 PM
  #35  
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I think this is an excellent point. Indeed since I have only picked up biking two years ago (at age 55), and since I only tried steel, I am totally oblivious to what other frames could ride like. All I know is that (from what I read) that steel bikes absorb road imperfections better and are more resilient. Besides, I have to confess I dig how "clean" those older steel frames look
I usually ride in a trail nearby leading to Washington, DC, and the pavement is not that good. That is why I opted for steel. Would buying a used aluminum bike allow me to get a feel for this kind of frames or would it give a bit of a false feeling? the reason is they probably would be more affordable instead of buying new. I see a few older aluminum bikes on craiglist or facebook market place but as opposed to steel I didn't feel confident figuring out how good they are.

Originally Posted by Garfield Cat View Post
You have 3 steel alloy frame bikes. That in itself may indicate why you're asking the question. Indulge a little and get a different frame material bike to tryout. It's like in many other things. A chef will taste a particular dish like even spaghetti and tell you what it is about.
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Old 09-30-22, 02:15 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by sbuckaroo View Post
I think this is an excellent point. Indeed since I have only picked up biking two years ago (at age 55), and since I only tried steel, I am totally oblivious to what other frames could ride like. All I know is that (from what I read) that steel bikes absorb road imperfections better and are more resilient. Besides, I have to confess I dig how "clean" those older steel frames look
I usually ride in a trail nearby leading to Washington, DC, and the pavement is not that good. That is why I opted for steel. Would buying a used aluminum bike allow me to get a feel for this kind of frames or would it give a bit of a false feeling? the reason is they probably would be more affordable instead of buying new. I see a few older aluminum bikes on craiglist or facebook market place but as opposed to steel I didn't feel confident figuring out how good they are.
Wouldn't the new bike need to be equipped with similar components of similar age and have the same frame geometry ?
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Old 09-30-22, 02:24 PM
  #37  
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Sorry I don't follow your question.

Originally Posted by holytrousers View Post
Wouldn't the new bike need to be equipped with similar components of similar age and have the same frame geometry ?
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Old 09-30-22, 02:34 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by sbuckaroo View Post
Sorry I don't follow your question.
if you want to discover how the feeling of aluminum differs from steel by buying a new bike, wouldn't the new bike need to have the same components of the same age, ie same tires with similar wear inflated to the same pressure, the spoke tensions identical, the same rims, saddle, handlebars etc. and of cours the same frame geometry
If the components on the new bike were different, how would you know if the new feeling aren't attributed to it's different components (or frame geometry), rather than to the frame material ?
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Old 09-30-22, 03:13 PM
  #39  
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I haven't read all the responses here so if I repeat something already posted my apologies. A friend of mine has spent his life in the bicycle industry and raced locally. He calls my Guru Sidero (steel) "nervous." By which he means it steers very quickly. This is usually a result of fork rake and WB. Some would call it twitchy. My take on handling is that much, if not most, of it boils down to those two factors.....assuming similar wheels and tires.
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Old 09-30-22, 03:22 PM
  #40  
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I see, so separating all other factors except the frame materials. This makes sense scientifically but may be difficult to achieve in practice, no?

Originally Posted by holytrousers View Post
if you want to discover how the feeling of aluminum differs from steel by buying a new bike, wouldn't the new bike need to have the same components of the same age, ie same tires with similar wear inflated to the same pressure, the spoke tensions identical, the same rims, saddle, handlebars etc. and of cours the same frame geometry
If the components on the new bike were different, how would you know if the new feeling aren't attributed to it's different components (or frame geometry), rather than to the frame material ?
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Old 09-30-22, 03:23 PM
  #41  
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What is WB?

Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
I haven't read all the responses here so if I repeat something already posted my apologies. A friend of mine has spent his life in the bicycle industry and raced locally. He calls my Guru Sidero (steel) "nervous." By which he means it steers very quickly. This is usually a result of fork rake and WB. Some would call it twitchy. My take on handling is that much, if not most, of it boils down to those two factors.....assuming similar wheels and tires.
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Old 09-30-22, 03:43 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by sbuckaroo View Post
I see, so separating all other factors except the frame materials. This makes sense scientifically but may be difficult to achieve in practice, no?
Yes, that's why i was skeptical about the idea of buying a new aluminum bike just to feel the difference without being rigorous about it. Another alternative would be to ride hundreds of different bikes to get the general idea of how each material feels like.
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Old 09-30-22, 03:54 PM
  #43  
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Oh I wish I wish. A very tempting suggestion but I am afraid I have champaign taste and a beer budget

Originally Posted by holytrousers View Post
Yes, that's why i was skeptical about the idea of buying a new aluminum bike just to feel the difference without being rigorous about it. Another alternative would be to ride hundreds of different bikes to get the general idea of how each material feels like.
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Old 09-30-22, 04:33 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by sbuckaroo View Post
What is WB?
wheelbase
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Old 10-01-22, 05:45 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by sbuckaroo View Post
What is WB?
wheel base......the distance between front and rear axles.
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Old 10-01-22, 08:45 AM
  #46  
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I see. So when this distance increases does it mean a more aggressive riding position?

Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
wheel base......the distance between front and rear axles.

Last edited by sbuckaroo; 10-01-22 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 10-01-22, 08:53 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by sbuckaroo View Post
Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
wheel base......the distance between front and rear axles.
I see. So when this distance increases does it mean a more aggressive riding position?
No. Absolutely not. Don't make such assumptions about riding position based on just one particular dimension of bike geometry. You have to know what all the other dimensions, angles and tube lengths as well as stem, handlebar and other component dimensions are to even begin to make such an assessment.
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Old 10-01-22, 08:57 AM
  #48  
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Oh.. OK. got it.

Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
No. Absolutely not. Don't make such assumptions about riding position based on just one particular dimension of bike geometry. You have to know what all the other dimensions, angles and tube lengths as well as stem, handlebar and other component dimensions are to even begin to make such an assessment.
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Old 10-01-22, 08:58 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by sbuckaroo View Post
I think this is an excellent point. Indeed since I have only picked up biking two years ago (at age 55), and since I only tried steel, I am totally oblivious to what other frames could ride like. All I know is that (from what I read) that steel bikes absorb road imperfections better and are more resilient. Besides, I have to confess I dig how "clean" those older steel frames look
I usually ride in a trail nearby leading to Washington, DC, and the pavement is not that good. That is why I opted for steel. Would buying a used aluminum bike allow me to get a feel for this kind of frames or would it give a bit of a false feeling? the reason is they probably would be more affordable instead of buying new. I see a few older aluminum bikes on craiglist or facebook market place but as opposed to steel I didn't feel confident figuring out how good they are.
Age 55 and recently within 2 years: "more affordable" "buying used" - By now you have 2 years of riding and now have a pretty good idea as to what you like about the bikes you already have. It is now more about how you like to ride and not the materials.

Some riders like to go for the sport. That means faster speeds and longer distances. If this is you, then skip the curious mode and go straight up to the front of the line. If you like the way you ride now, then it may not matter what others tell you about aluminum or carbon fiber.
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Old 10-01-22, 09:01 AM
  #50  
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If you look in the geometry specs for a bike, frame stack, IMO will be your best single measurement to give you a clue about how aggressive a fit a bike might give a cyclist. However it's not absolute. Other things might change the riders position to be slightly less aggressive between different models of bikes.
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