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It feels unsafe and borderline reckless to ride in actual traffic where there is no s

Old 08-27-22, 10:31 AM
  #151  
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Did a 10 mile loop today.

Rode on some single lane double yellows (SLDY)
The roads were not too busy, thankfully, since I can't keep up with 30 mph and creating a hazard for cars.

When there is a shoulder, and I see a car coming up behind me, I cheat over into the shoulder to let the car pass.
Is this bad? Should I stay in the middle of the lane, and force the car to stay behind me?
It is illegal to pass on a DY lane.
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Old 08-27-22, 03:05 PM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
When there is a shoulder, and I see a car coming up behind me, I cheat over into the shoulder to let the car pass.
Is this bad? Should I stay in the middle of the lane, and force the car to stay behind me?
First Priority is your SKIN. Whatever you deem will keep your skin on your body best at the moment is what you should do. I'm not gambling with your skin by making any suggestions. Every moment on the open road is different. What worked 30 seconds ago may not work a minute later.

Second Priority: Be POLITE. If you were operating that car approaching you, what would you want that cyclist to do? Can you even SEE the cyclist? If every motorist payed strict attention to driving, the answers would be clearer.
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Old 08-27-22, 09:14 PM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
Did a 10 mile loop today.

Rode on some single lane double yellows (SLDY)
The roads were not too busy, thankfully, since I can't keep up with 30 mph and creating a hazard for cars.

When there is a shoulder, and I see a car coming up behind me, I cheat over into the shoulder to let the car pass.
Is this bad? Should I stay in the middle of the lane, and force the car to stay behind me?
It is illegal to pass on a DY lane.
All states, laws, situations are/may be different.

Obligatory disclaimer aside, it's generally illegal for a car to cross a double yellow to pass an otherwise able vehicle. It is however legal to cross for a slow moving vehicle or other obstruction. Farm tractors, Amish buggies, downed tree branches, Giant rocks, holes, etc...It is the expectation that in addition to being legal to cross the double yellow, a full lane of space be given to cyclists, pedestrians & other vulnerable or slow road users and passing shall not be done so unless it can be done in a safe & controlled manner.

Each states particular wording may vary a bit, but the sentiment is generally consistent. The road is for people, cars are just one possible conveyance of many. The responsibility rests on the driver of the vehicle capable of the most harm.
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Old 08-28-22, 05:30 AM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
Did a 10 mile loop today.

Rode on some single lane double yellows (SLDY)
The roads were not too busy, thankfully, since I can't keep up with 30 mph and creating a hazard for cars.

When there is a shoulder, and I see a car coming up behind me, I cheat over into the shoulder to let the car pass.
Is this bad? Should I stay in the middle of the lane, and force the car to stay behind me?
It is illegal to pass on a DY lane.

You're really asking us what we would do. You need to make these judgments for yourself depending on the particular road. Also, you've never identified what legal jurisdiction you're riding in. Most states allow cars to cross a dy to pass a cyclist provided the opposite lane is clear.
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Old 08-29-22, 08:31 AM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
When there is a shoulder, and I see a car coming up behind me, I cheat over into the shoulder to let the car pass.
Is this bad?
While riding well out in the lane when no one is around is great for visibility, moving over when a car approaches behind is indeed often reasonable, but you have to judge that on a case by case basis. Are there debris, either visible or is it a known area for them? How's the pavement quality? Does this shoulder continue for a bit, or are you going to be trapped at a dead stop?

And most importantly, if you go there, does the layout of the road and the driver's manner of approach suggest that will lead to you being passed with sufficient space, or insufficient space?

If the shoulder isn't quite wide, and there's oncoming traffic, you may want to wait until that has gone by.

Should I stay in the middle of the lane, and force the car to stay behind me?
If it's a situation where it would be unsafe to be passed, that could be a good idea.

But then have your eye out for a situation where you can make a pass safe, and the more vehicles behind you the more a slight impact on your ride might be warranted, for example if there's a wide driveway opening you can use that to veer just off the road, hesistate in the middle of it and then resume once that bunch of vehicles is gone (of course if it's an effectively constant flow, doing that would just mean you make no progress)

You can also do some of this preemptively - if you're riding on a wide road and see a narrow bridge coming up, looking back some distance at traffic that will overtake could suggest a strategy of approaching the bridge faster or slower yourself, so that you're not there at the same time they are.

Last edited by UniChris; 08-29-22 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 08-29-22, 12:24 PM
  #156  
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I think the key is to avoid roads that have
no shoulder
fast cars
single lane
or crowded double lane.

With 2 lanes, and not mu traffic, no shoulder, its an easy pass.

But, with a steep hill, you are gonna be super slow
and if there are 2 full lanes, you're a hazard.
So, don't be in that situation.
Take another route.
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Old 08-29-22, 02:05 PM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
But, with a steep hill, you are gonna be super slow
and if there are 2 full lanes, you're a hazard.
It's not uncommon for regional highways (original meaning of the word vs "limited access highway" that's usually, though not always prohibited) that have a decent shoulder much of their way to have that instead become a slow vehicle (truck) climbing lane on a hill.

In that situation, you pretty much just have to ride in the middle of the slow vehicle lane, where you're visible and where drivers have ample opportunity to change to the other lane long before they reach you.

Hopefully it's not a heavy traffic hour with a loaded dump truck ascending the hill too.

You have to use your awareness of what's coming up behind, and your judgement, there are perhaps rare occasions where a rest break might serve another purpose too.

There isn't always another route.
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Old 08-29-22, 02:19 PM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
As of now, if there is no shoulder on either side, I simply do not ride on those roads without an obvious shoulder lane.
Then you wouldn't ride much where I live.

, where cars are in both lanes, the bike is creating an obstacle on the road and potentially causing car accidents, particularly if there are cars in both lanes and one sideswipes another while having to avoid the bike by swerving into the left lane. Not only is this totally unnerving for the rider, but it creates a real danger for cars.
[
This is not the cyclists' fault, this is the impatient drivers' fault. If they can't pass the cyclist safely then they shouldn't be passing.
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Old 08-29-22, 02:34 PM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
I think the key is to avoid roads that have
no shoulder
fast cars
single lane
or crowded double lane.

With 2 lanes, and not mu traffic, no shoulder, its an easy pass.

But, with a steep hill, you are gonna be super slow
and if there are 2 full lanes, you're a hazard.
So, don't be in that situation.
Take another route.

Seriously, you are in no position to be telling other people what they should or shouldn't do.

And like Milton Keynes said, many of us live in places where roads like that are impossible to avoid without giving up riding.
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Old 09-02-22, 06:22 PM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
Just did another ride.

At one particular intersection, I still can't resist going salmon in the shoulder instead of waiting at the red light to take a left at the intersection (only to ride in no shoulder)
So, I bypass the intersection by cutting over left before the intersection, doing salmon for 100 feet, and the crossing over into the correct lane.

.
This time, I stayed with traffic, lined up at the red light, and rode through the intersection.
Then rode in traffic until a shoulder appeared shortly. The key is the road was not busy.
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Old 09-02-22, 09:56 PM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
This time, I stayed with traffic, lined up at the red light, and rode through the intersection.
Then rode in traffic until a shoulder appeared shortly. The key is the road was not busy.
You entered the intersection against a red light? Just remember to take responsibility for your own decisions and actions.

And look at the video in the thread where a cyclist got broadsided. He entered against a red light too.
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Old 09-03-22, 05:29 AM
  #162  
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No, I queued up at the red light.
When it turned green, I rode through the intersection, as a car would.
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Old 09-03-22, 10:34 AM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
I think the key is to avoid roads that have
no shoulder
fast cars
single lane
or crowded double lane.
So, you'll just be riding up & down the sidewalk in front of your house then?
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Old 09-03-22, 03:08 PM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes
...If they can't pass the cyclist safely then they shouldn't be passing.
So as a cyclist, you are just fine with repeatedly causing motor vehicles, moving at 55 mph or more, to slow to 15mph to accommodate your hobby? There are things in this world equally as bad as impatience IMO. Narcissism and rudeness come to mind. Just because something is legal doesn't mean you should do it.

If you ride on narrow roads, you WILL experience dangerously close passes. You just WILL. The choice is yours to venture out there knowing this fact full well. So why gripe when it happens? It is SO easily avoidable.
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Old 09-03-22, 06:01 PM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
So as a cyclist, you are just fine with repeatedly causing motor vehicles, moving at 55 mph or more, to slow to 15mph to accommodate your hobby? There are things in this world equally as bad as impatience IMO. Narcissism and rudeness come to mind. Just because something is legal doesn't mean you should do it.

If you ride on narrow roads, you WILL experience dangerously close passes. You just WILL. The choice is yours to venture out there knowing this fact full well. So why gripe when it happens? It is SO easily avoidable.
That's what bike lanes are for.
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Old 09-03-22, 06:22 PM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4
That's what bike lanes are for.
I would cycle more if I lived in a world where every road had a bike lane. Or decent, clean shoulder.

I think the poster I was responding to was referring to narrow roads with no shoulders where he sounded happy to slow high speed traffic to 15 mph routinely.
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Old 09-03-22, 10:33 PM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
So as a cyclist, you are just fine with repeatedly causing motor vehicles, moving at 55 mph or more, to slow to 15mph to accommodate your hobby?
A statement straight out of the Cathy Newman School of Argumentation. You can practically smell the dried grass that comprises the straw man. Everyone should take note of the extremely loaded wording. JB attempted to assign nefarious intent on the part of the cyclist, and he automatically relegated the activity of cycling to a "hobby" as if it doesn't serve a legitimate purpose (that being transportation). Note how he completely ignored the fact that a myriad of automobiles have no practical use and would be considered hobbyist vehicles, yet they apparently aren't evil like the lycra-clad cyclist on his/her $8000 steed. A Honda Accord can just as easily get someone from Point A to Point B as a Ford Mustang GT, yet we don't direct any ire at the sports car driver for their enthusiast vehicle. The only major difference between the Mustang driver and the Tour de Fred cyclist is speed, which basically insinuates that JB espouses the "might is right" mantra, which he vacuously disguises with feigned concern for safety and the courtesy shown towards others.

Originally Posted by JoeyBike
There are things in this world equally as bad as impatience IMO. Narcissism and rudeness come to mind.
There is nothing narcissistic about engaging in practices which preserve one's safety. Lane control is not about "look at me everyone", but rather it's about "don't kill me please". Those with half a brain can spot the difference.

Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Just because something is legal doesn't mean you should do it.
And just because you can legally post nonsense on a public forum, it doesn't mean you should. Seriously, the "just because you can..." argument is as hackeneyed and as worn out as a 60-year-old lady of the night. Let's not pretend it has relevance or meaning. Besides, you're free to do what I tell everyone who thinks similarly to do. If you hate the existing law so much, get off your lazy butt and have it changed. The five minutes it takes to write an email or make a phone call won't damage you irreparably.

Originally Posted by JoeyBike
If you ride on narrow roads, you WILL experience dangerously close passes. You just WILL. The choice is yours to venture out there knowing this fact full well. So why gripe when it happens? It is SO easily avoidable.
Yes, it is mostly avoidable by exercising lane control. Obviously, you can't eliminate 100% of close passes, but if there was a foolproof method then everyone would do it. As it stands, positioning yourself in the lane where it discourages close passes 95% of the time is a decent compromise.


Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I would cycle more if I lived in a world where every road had a bike lane. Or decent, clean shoulder.
I, too, have read the play "Waiting For Godot".

In Kansas City where I live the vast majority of roads are classified as minor arterial roads, which under MODOT regulations have lanes 10-12 feet wide (AKA narrow). More often than not there are no shoulders, and when they are present they are typically small or laden with debris. It is physically impossible to avoid these roads unless you drive somewhere first, but that defeats the purpose. Moreover, I've found you don't have to occupy the center or left side of the lane to discourage close passes, but rather it's sufficient to ride where a car's right tire track would be. Does my presence anger motorists? It's hard to say because the overwhelming majority of them don't say a word or honk their horns. If they are put off by me lawfully riding a legal vehicle on a public road, then they are demonstrating that they are adults who accept the fact that personal convenience does not supersede another person's safety.
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Old 09-04-22, 10:36 AM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
So as a cyclist, you are just fine with repeatedly causing motor vehicles, moving at 55 mph or more, to slow to 15mph to accommodate your hobby? There are things in this world equally as bad as impatience IMO. Narcissism and rudeness come to mind. Just because something is legal doesn't mean you should do it.

If you ride on narrow roads, you WILL experience dangerously close passes. You just WILL. The choice is yours to venture out there knowing this fact full well. So why gripe when it happens? It is SO easily avoidable.
You sure are putting a lot of words into my mouth.
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Old 09-04-22, 03:23 PM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
So as a cyclist, you are just fine with repeatedly causing motor vehicles, moving at 55 mph or more, to slow to 15mph to accommodate your hobby? There are things in this world equally as bad as impatience IMO. Narcissism and rudeness come to mind. Just because something is legal doesn't mean you should do it.

If you ride on narrow roads, you WILL experience dangerously close passes. You just WILL. The choice is yours to venture out there knowing this fact full well. So why gripe when it happens? It is SO easily avoidable.

So you're assuming a 55 mph two lane in this scenario? I haven't seen a lot of those roads, and those that I have weren't trafficked enough so that the car behind me would have to wait more than a few seconds to pass me by going into the opposite lane as allowed and required by law. I'm going to continue to "gripe" when drivers act illegally because I don't think it's on me to help people believe this is acceptable behavior. I don't do it as a driver, and frankly it's only narcissists and the rude who do.
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Old 09-04-22, 06:26 PM
  #170  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
So you're assuming a 55 mph two lane in this scenario?
I really haven't seen a lot of narrow 55 MPH roads around where I live.
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Old 09-05-22, 12:13 AM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
So you're assuming a 55 mph two lane in this scenario? I haven't seen a lot of those roads, and those that I have weren't trafficked enough so that the car behind me would have to wait more than a few seconds to pass me by going into the opposite lane as allowed and required by law. I'm going to continue to "gripe" when drivers act illegally because I don't think it's on me to help people believe this is acceptable behavior. I don't do it as a driver, and frankly it's only narcissists and the rude who do.
Same experience for me. It's rarely more than 2 or 3 seconds on these remote roads.
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Old 09-05-22, 07:26 AM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes
I really haven't seen a lot of narrow 55 MPH roads around where I live.

And yet, according to post 166 JoeyBike that's the road you were talking about.

He's been nothing but a troll for a couple years now.
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Old 09-05-22, 07:32 AM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I would cycle more if I lived in a world where every road had a bike lane. Or decent, clean shoulder.

I think the poster I was responding to was referring to narrow roads with no shoulders where he sounded happy to slow high speed traffic to 15 mph routinely.

Why are you still here? Do you really see the value in going on a bike forum and telling people not to bike?

Someone who has admitted that they find videos of rolling coal on cyclists hilarious really has a lot of nerve coming back here and lecturing us on civility.
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Old 09-05-22, 10:01 AM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes
I really haven't seen a lot of narrow 55 MPH roads around where I live.
Donít move to somewhere like Montana. 70 mph roads with relatively narrow shoulders. Some slightly slower with no shoulders. Some the same with no shoulders. Some Interstate segments are actually nicer to ride on. But the scenery on the others is usually much nicer.

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Old 09-05-22, 11:23 AM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
Donít move to somewhere like Montana. 70 mph roads with relatively narrow shoulders. Some slightly slower with no shoulders. Some the same with no shoulders. Some Interstate segments are actually nicer to ride on. But the scenery on the others is usually much nicer.
Every goat-trail in Texas is 70 or 75 mph. I hate driving them much less cycling on them.
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