JeffS

Below $1K? I would be surprised if we ever saw that - not for a full group at least.

SouthFLpix

Below 1k for the gruppo or 2k for a full bike is what I would like to see. Bikesdirect.com already sells a Dura Ace Di2 bike for $3,600. How much less will the Ultegra Di2 be? I don't know if they'll hit 2k, but it will probably be pretty close.

JohnJ80

Apparently about $1500-1600 for the electrical components or $2300 for the whole she-bang Ultegra DI2 kit build. About 350 grams heavier than the DA version.

https://bicycling.com/blogs/thehub/20...tric-shifting/

J.

mechBgon

I wouldn't call theirs a real Di2 bike, since it doesn't have the requisite crankset. The front shifting is a big deal for Di2.

twobadfish

For anyone doubting this technology (without even using it), read this

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/fo...hp?f=5&t=70101

This review just made me wonder how easy it would be to switch between different speed cassettes. 9/10/11 speed without changing the shifters.

twobadfish

Not sure what you're talking about. This bike: https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...eam_di2_xi.htm

Has di2 on both the front and rear. "The front shifting is a big deal for Di2". Do you even know what you're talking about?

tjspiel

If I remember another post from him correctly, it sounds like the crankset that's part of the Di2 group is heavily pinned and ramped, - more so than a typical Shimano crank. The Di2 derailleur may not work as well with other cranks such as the one on the BD bike.

mechBgon

Yes I do, being a Di2-certified tech tjspiel has the correct interpretation. Also, if you compare the chainring-to-chainring spacing of a Di2 crankset (6700 or 7900) to that crap SL-K they substituted, I think you'll notice a significant difference. The derailleur is not expecting that.

By the way tjspiel, if your guys's chains are ending up like that, you're pretty much going to need to re-lube and wipe the chain down after every ride. In the winter, that's about what I have to do when there's snow/slush constantly depleting the chain lube. I wouldn't normally suggest classic DuMondTech oil, it's insanely hard to remove from anything, but if you want something to hold up a while, it might be what you have to resort to.

SouthFLpix

If the Ultegra Di2 crankset works better for FD shifting (I don't know for sure that it does, I'd have to take a test ride), I would be inclined to use it, but that doesn't mean I need the 'entire' gruppo intact. Meaning I would be fine without Ultegra brake calipers, pedals, and bottom bracket.

fietsbob

I thought this was a commuter forum, apparently lots of racer wannabes ,
start late for work go fast, so as to not get fired.

Lets see if they come up with a hydraulic shifted Nexus IG hub next..

Hydraulics will be an improvement over cables there ,
just like they are better in brakes, than cables.

mechBgon

I wouldn't gripe if they just left out the brake calipers and pedals. But the revised chainring spacing is what the servo controller is programmed for, and the extremely rigid hollow-forged outer ring and its well-engineered shift ramps are a big deal when you're using a servo to start the upshift and relying on the chainring to make it happen.

It's pathetic they didn't give the bike at least an Ultegra 6700 crankset, that would've qualified and they're not THAT expensive. I'll make sure to ask the Shimano rep about BikesDirect the next time I see him, should be interesting.

when

Eventually, I see the need for an integrated power system for bikes. Lights, shifting, cyclocomputer, GPS, power assist, regenerative braking, and solar should all be able to plug into the same system on a bike. This is just one small step towards that.

tjspiel

Thanks for the tip on the oil. This winter I'll be using one of KMCs "Rust Buster" chains. They were too wide for the 8 speed drivetrain I had last year but will be fine with the IGH I have now. I used one of those chains a couple of years ago and it held up pretty well. Since there's no derailleur I think that'll help keep the lube from wearing off as quickly too.

I appreciate your insight on the Di2. Until this thread I didn't really see the value in something like that but I've got a better feel for the benefits now. Still probably won't have anything like it on my bikes for a few years but I bet by the end of the decade it'll be pretty common.

JohnJ80

FWIW, we did Chain-L on my son's bike that he rode all winter here in Minnesota. The lube held up really well to all the wet, cold and winter slop.

I, too, think DI2 will be really common in a few years.

J.

Seattle Forrest

My good sir! This is the Luddite forum. Now go ride your penny farthing.

alan s 

Let's get it straight! No one was accusing bike commuters of being Luddites, just "flat-earthers." I think the proponents of Di2 believe the earth is not flat, and therefore you need electronic shifting, because there lots of hills to contend with, resulting in lots of gear shifting. The flat-earthers don't see a need for electronic shifting because, well, the Earth is flat.

chipcom 

I used to wish for flat...but what goes up must come down...and gravity is my friend.

mconlonx

You don't.

twobadfish

pwned

mconlonx

IGH + Electronic shifting, you say...?

https://bicycledesign.net/2011/08/nuv...g-for-e-bikes/

OK, so it's for e-bikes w/ 12-48v systems, but how far away could a dyno-hub version be if they really wanted to go that way?

https://www.fallbrooktech.com/05_Pres...es_harmony.asp

tjspiel

That actually takes it a step further to automatic shifting. Which I think would be a disaster on almost anything other than the Nuvinci hub that's part of the package. Even with a Nuvinci hub I can see automatic shifting being a real annoyance. I know there's an option to switch to manual shifting.

The comparison is made to cars and automatic transmissions but I think there's a big difference when it's your legs supplying the power.

HappyStuffing

I think there really is something to be said about tradition. Some of us just really like it. Pricing aside, I for one will stick to cable shifting for the foreseeable future. I really do see this akin to automatic transmission vs stick drives in cars. There is just something appealing about manual shifting that I cannot quantify or put into words.

That being said, more than likely when and if electronic shifting comes down in price for us regular folks that actually have to watch how we spend our money, I may purchase this new system. But I think I will always have a fondness for manual shifting.

JohnJ80

You know, I had an old bike (1980's) that I really liked, even loved It's a beautiful French bike with a Campy group (friction shifters - 6 speed cluster) on it, custom hand built wheels etc.. I did lots of great miles on that bike, and it's just a beautiful bike - there's a look to it, clean lines and great workmanship.

Long story made short, I took it down off the wall and let my son use it for the University but I made him promise to treat it with care. Anyhow, I took the thing out to do some riding on it - a trip down memory lane so to speak. Well, in a word - it just sucked. Friction shifting sucks. 6 speeds suck. The frame is a lot more flexible and the geometry is not as comfortable. My current bikes are carbon fiber with Ultegra on them, carbon wheels etc... There is no comparison other than nostalgic. i'll take the newer technology any day.

J.

tjspiel

Well, I like manual transmissions in cars too but it really has nothing to do with nostalgia or tradition for me. I just think they're more fun. It's more of a feeling of "driving" the car versus riding in it. Maybe you loose some of that feeling with electronic shifting too, I don't know. With Di2 anyway, you still decide if and when you shift.

Another way to look at might be to think of Di2 as akin to synchromesh. You still shift, but it's a lot less finicky.

mechBgon

Actual full-auto shifting would be problematic. When I get out of the saddle, whether it's to climb a hill, or to rest my butt or back, or to accelerate, I have to bring the RPMs down a lot so there's some resistance to step on in the downstroke. An automatic system would need to somehow sense that sort of thing. A weight sensor in the seat, maybe? Voice command? HAL... I'm going to stand up for a while, lower the cadence. ...HAL?