dwmckee

I think that the problem here may be that many folks ride bents because of bad backs and other ailments often associated with older folks. Slower folks riding bents may lead others to think bents are slow, which they are not.

tctdvm

I haven't done that many loop courses on the upright. And I haven't done any Chung Virtual Elevation testing on it yet.
I believe I'm about 50-60 watts slower on the upright.
Based on:
My buddy is a zone stronger than me. Side by side on our uprights we're pretty close to the same power.
When he pulls, we are in the same zone. When I pull he's 2 zones down.
If I ride the bent, we're in the same zone if he sits on my wheel (and gets really really close and really really small.... he's quite good at it actually.)

T

StephenH

I know a couple of recumbent riders that are slower than me, a couple that are faster than me (and they can climb faster than me).

Woman on a recumbent:


Two clean-shaven recumbent riders and another female recumbent rider:

Bohuslav

Recumbents riders get a bad rap because they are "different." Dennis Johnson aged 61 raced to a 7th place solo overall, 1st place American solo, and 1st place 60+ solo on the recent Race Across America - a 3000 mile cross country race with over 100,000 feet of climbing. He was able to stay relatively close to his competition from California through Colorado and on the plains opened up an unsurmountable lead. He finished the cross country non-stop race in 10 days, 17 hours, 39 minutes. While one cannot stand on a recumbent to climb, how much do the pros stand to climb in the stage races? Standing on the pedals generates more power but it is less efficient which is why most climbers remain seated while climbing long climbs. On extremely steep climbs, recumbents will be disadvantaged but as stated in an earlier response on typical climbs, recumbents will be able to climb but maybe not at the same speed.

It would be interesting to see what a pro racer with recumbent training could do on a climb versus a diamond frame bike.

One questioned the aero advantage of a recumbent. I've read that a high racer recumbent and rider is slightly more aero than the best time trial bike and rider. And with extreme recline angle on the seat, could be as much as 10 -15 percent more aero.

Here are the RAAM results, scan for Dennis Johnson's results.
https://www.raceacrossamerica.org/raa...s_N_Year_ID=38

Dannihilator

I have respect for recumbents, they are not my thing, but having seen a few fast bents out there. All that matters is if one is out there riding.

willie92708

Originally Posted by Elvo
Yep some dude with a fairing has a 60 mph downhill kom Well, I've actually never had my yellow carbon Quest Velomobile above 70 MPH, I have hit 67 MPH several times. Yes, mostly straight downhill 60 MPH KOM's are simple coasting. But piloting an airfoil through the wind at that speed is a learned skilled, because wind gusts move the machine around laterally on the road, and it takes a micro touch for steering control. Screwing up could result in a rollover = very bad! Rubber side must stay down! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWHa...8UfcVsl2kfi-FQ

On the subject of downhill KOM's, I've obviously irritated some local cyclist(s), who flagged over 200 of my rides. I'm fine with that, because Strava needs to get their act together and provide either ride types, or bike classes, so machines like road bike, mountain bikes, tandems, recumbents and streamliners can fit into different leaderboards. Even just "off road" (MTB segments) "road solo" "road drafting" and "road aero" would be enough to even out the playing field.

Willie

willie92708

I would say that's a myth, given an ultra light and ultra stiff recumbent. My 18 lbs Carbent climbs better than any upright I've ever owned. Standing is only body weight unless you pull down on the handle bars, where as with a bent you can leg press against the seat back and the leg force can be double even triple body weight. Of course this does not last long, but for quick sprints up steep grades it works as well or better depending on the athlete and training on the platform.

Willie

lowracer1

Well it looks like Willie got in the last word and killed the thread.... ha ha..

Trsnrtr

Willie is a legend in the bent world and definitely not your stereotypical bent rider.

Jaeger99

Good attitude. Both you and them.

pdedes

the only time i got close to being beaten by a recumbent was when the rider tried to hit me with it

delcrossv

You need to get out more.

lowracer1

He simply probably doesn't have any fast bent riders in the area or it could be the case that he is still faster than the fastest bent rider in the area.

RChung

That's pretty irrelevant. Most of those world record bikes wouldn't be usable on a MUP. Most DF world record bikes could be used on a regular road (you might not want to do that, but you could).

Some unfaired recumbents can have quite low total drag (by "total" I mean aero, rolling, and drivetrain). Most unfaired recumbents are set up in a way so that their aero drag is in the same ballpark as a guy on a road bike with his hands either in the drops or on the hoods (like, CdA from .25 to .35 m^2 or more) -- and they tend to have higher rolling resistance and drivetrain losses. I recently measured the aero drag for a guy on an unfaired low racer that was quite a bit lower than for a well-positioned TT bike rider, but that was for a record attempt and the bike might not have been usable on the road. I think Willie's Quest has a CdA somewhat north of .1 m^2, and Tim has a CdA on his recumbent of around .2 m^2, and those are road usable. Lowest CdA for a guy on a TT bike I've measured is under .2 m^2, but he's a kinda small guy and that was for a (successful) record attempt. That bike could have been used on the road.

[Edited to add] Those online power-speed calculators? I've found that they underestimate the drag of most recumbents (that is, they make most recumbents look much more aero than they actually turn out to be).

Campag4life

There is one trike rider on the MUP I ride that routinely rolls at 20 mph. First time I saw him, I did run him down a bit because I hadn't seen anybody ride a trike so fast before and I thought he may have electrical assist. He didn't, just strong legs. Not sure if there is more or less drag due to that 3rd wheel relative to the overall hole being punched in the air compared to a conventional diamond frame bike. I know there are 2 wheel bents out there with less drag and they are very fast on the flats with a good rider. Don't rule out electrical assist OP. On a long and stable wheelbase trike there is plenty of room for a big battery and 750W motor and with 200w pedal power will put cruising speed in the 25+mph range. I may in fact build one in another 10 years.

Campag4life

Here's the problem...in bold above.
I wrote this in the MUP thread. MUP's aren't all the same. The MUP I ride on which is closed to motor vehicles excepting E-bikes IS a full width road.

RChung

The Varna Diablo and VeloX are designed to go straight, no turns. They have restricted steering and the VeloX doesn't even have a windshield -- it's a camera bike. They need support when they start and a catcher when they stop.

Campag4life

Restricted steering would be fine on the MUP I ride...perhaps not a bacon strip which define some MUPs.

RChung

I'm pretty sure delcrossv has seen the Varna and VeloX up close. He may be able to tell you their turning radii. And, as I noted, restricted steering isn't the only problem with using those bikes on regular roads.

Nonetheless, I think Willie's Quest and Tim's recumbents are clearly more usable on regular roads. Even Boardman's superman bike could be used on a regular road (though it probably wouldn't be very pleasant) -- I'm not sure Bonneteau's hour record bike could be.

FLvector

The MUP I ride on week nights is also very straight and ideal for TT training and fast group rides, with very little ped traffic past the 1 mile mark from the trail head. Obviously, not all MUP's are the same, especially on the weekends.

I've never seen a tri-bike that I couldn't run down, but can't say the same for the two-wheel recumbents.

delcrossv

Georgi tests out the Varnas on the roads around his house so they can-sort of - make very wide turns. Then run fine on the auto racing test loops for example. But Robert is essentially correct that record streamliners have very restricted turning abilities- i.e. they wouldn't make the turns at most velodromes. Velox (Delft) is even more optimized for straight line runs than the Varnas.

In any event, both those bikes require launchers and catchers so I don't count them as "streetable".

Aure Bonnateau's hour bike is however rideable on the street -if you accept the restricted vision of such an extreme recline angle. In truth I'm only about 10 degrees more upright on my M-Racer and I ride that on the street all the time. The dropped chain across the front wheel is just something you deal with. I always lose 5 sec. or so on out and back tt's because I can't quite do a 180 deg turn on the narrow roads they're run on. Oh well; the rest of the bike's performance more than makes up for that quirk.

RChung

I've both passed and been passed by enough (unfaired) bikes of every type that I don't find that particular metric to be very informative.

delcrossv

If that was Phil's M1- that bike is very streetable.

FLvector

Combined with a strong motor that bike looks fast. Very similar to several that I see locally and they are also very strong and fast. Again, in my experience, I rarely see any tri-bikes in my area that can maintain over 20 mph, but I'm sure that's possible with a strong motor. They may be out there, but on the trails which are ideal for them to ride, I never see them. It may be different in other regions.

Germany_chris

UCI banned recumbants because they were too fast and fenders because they were too aero