My Oxalic Acid OA Bathtub
#26
aka Tom Reingold
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I know oxalic acid is toxic to humans (and probably other animals) but The Goog says it's biodegradable. I suspect it would be safe to dump in the ground or on the road.
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#28
Old Bike Craphound
I was also wondering about the result of any chromed steel parts that may be left on the frame (that I am wanting to reuse): stubborn driveside BB cups, headset cups, etc. Also, what would be the effect on aluminum parts (that I am not planning to reuse, but are difficult to remove): stuck seatposts and stems, etc.? [Edit: just noticed that Classtime left the headset cups in and they seem to benefit rather than suffer from the treatment.]
Thanks to Classtime for pushing this way to revive old bike frames.
-Will
#29
blahblahblah chrome moly
This method of using Evaporust instead of OA lets you easily reclaim every drop for re-use:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...evaporust.html
If you can afford a gallon and a half of Evaporust, give it a try. It's completely replaced OA for me.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...evaporust.html
If you can afford a gallon and a half of Evaporust, give it a try. It's completely replaced OA for me.
Plus side (for lazy people) is you don't have to build anything, and your total equipment is a $4 plastic tray. Easy to pour the ER back into the bottle, and easy to store the tray when not in use. Minuses include: Takes longer, like a day or two, to give each sector of the frame a good long soak, and doing the middle of the seat tube doesn't work like the rest of the frame, had to resort to the 'rags soaked in ER' method there. Also takes more ER – I think it was about 2.5 gal, though I wasn't measuring and it was a while ago.
I scored 4 gallons of ER when it was on sale at Pep Boys, which has lasted me literally for years. I restored a '50s vintage 5" cast-iron bench vise – 70 lb and even disassembled sticks out the top of a 5-gal bucket, so had to flip the parts, but it came out great. Bought it for $40, sold it on CL for $220, so my 4 gal ER has paid for itself already. I could see myself buying a 5 gal bucket of the stuff next time, currently $76 at the Home Despot. Anyone know any especially cheap place to buy it? 5 gal is a bit overkill for most casual bike restorers, so best price on the 1 gal bottle would probably be of most interest here. I see it also comes in a 3.5 gal size.
Question: We know ER is great at removing rust, but is it as good as OA at brightening paint? The frame I did it on was painted black, so I might not have noticed a difference in brightening, like on the OP's white painted Raleigh. His results look very good. Is there any other extra "bleaching" going on with OA, beyond just the rust removal? Still, even if there is, I think I'd stick with ER for the other advantages like safety. If you forget a part in the ER for, say, a week, no danger of pitting/etching. It only eats rust. Safe on paint, decals, aluminum, pretty much everything else AFAIK
Mark B. in Seattle
#30
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Mark brings up a good point. I was avoiding OA for some current work because I thought I had read that it dulled red paints due to the pigment presumably having iron in it. And wasn't sure if it would work its way through some badly bubbled paint. Wondering if ER would do the same or not, got some I could test on an inconspicuous part... I may be plastic wrapping an ER soaked paper towel to the BB shell some evening. I've gone ahead and mechanically removed most of the rust and badly bubbled paint I've found, was going to spot treat with Naval Jelly, but a more comprehensive job would be better for getting more thorough removal... Good thread!
#31
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I would caution against adding the neutralizing baking soda while the frame is in the OA bath. When I did this with a Raleigh Pro the paint was bleached in a marbleized pattern where I sprinkled in the soda, something about the reaction that occurs at the time that the soda meets the acid.
Now I remove the frame from the bath and add the Baking soda. Once the reaction subsides I re-immerse the frame in the bath to neutralize the acid solution that remains inside the fame tubes.
Brent
Now I remove the frame from the bath and add the Baking soda. Once the reaction subsides I re-immerse the frame in the bath to neutralize the acid solution that remains inside the fame tubes.
Brent
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Brent, I never thought to stop the reaction while the frame's still in the bath. I remove the frame, rinse off, hang to drain & dry, then add baking soda to the bath. Sometimes there's a little residue on the frame, I clean off with a soft sponge or rag and gloved hands.
Classtime, your Raleigh looks great. After first starting "kiddie pool" I built up a similar frame box except without the top & bottom. I added hinges at the corner so I can easily re-assemble adjust the angles a little bit. I have a pebble filled path on my side yard. I just lay the box frame on the rocks, added a heavy-duty shower curtain, and then fil it up and cover up with some plywood to keep the dog from jumping in.
I do suggest you try to fill the gaps in the frame next time. Less OA to deal with at the end. That large plastic tub (filled with plain water and some large rocks) might fit in the main triangle.
Classtime, your Raleigh looks great. After first starting "kiddie pool" I built up a similar frame box except without the top & bottom. I added hinges at the corner so I can easily re-assemble adjust the angles a little bit. I have a pebble filled path on my side yard. I just lay the box frame on the rocks, added a heavy-duty shower curtain, and then fil it up and cover up with some plywood to keep the dog from jumping in.
I do suggest you try to fill the gaps in the frame next time. Less OA to deal with at the end. That large plastic tub (filled with plain water and some large rocks) might fit in the main triangle.
#33
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Looks great! Do you plan to apply a clear coat to the chrome or any scratches in the paint? Did you rinse the frame in anything to halt further rust?
#34
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Two coats of car wax is all. I’ve got a new can of gloss white Rustoleum for touch ups. The blue will get clear nail polish.
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#35
The after looks incredible. I just went through the same process of rebuilding my bike from ground up and tried every option other than OA on the frame (couldn't find any here in Canada). Took so many man hours to get most of the rust specs off.
Mind me asking where you got it?
Mind me asking where you got it?
#36
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Honey Pot
The after looks incredible. I just went through the same process of rebuilding my bike from ground up and tried every option other than OA on the frame (couldn't find any here in Canada). Took so many man hours to get most of the rust specs off.
Mind me asking where you got it?
Mind me asking where you got it?
I suspect it will last me a good while, unless I get into apiculture?
Currently I'm experimenting with small bits in a concentrated solution with various solvents in an ultrasonic and heated environment.
#37
I picked up five (5) pounds of 99.4% dried crystals on sale a while back....and it appears it is still on sale, for ~$19 including shipping from the Amazon.
I suspect it will last me a good while, unless I get into apiculture?
Currently I'm experimenting with small bits in a concentrated solution with various solvents in an ultrasonic and heated environment.
I suspect it will last me a good while, unless I get into apiculture?
Currently I'm experimenting with small bits in a concentrated solution with various solvents in an ultrasonic and heated environment.
Keep us posted on how that turns out.
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BTW, a warning, I guess oxalic acid doesn't care what surface in encounters. I did some frames recently, the weather was iffy so I worked on my enclosed porch; instead of a purpose made bath, I used a doggie pool. Must've splashed a bit, which went under the pool. Now I have some white-ish stains/bleaching/deposits on the tile floor. Wife not happy. We tried the baking soda trick, it seems to help some. I also read that ammonia helps (both products being alkali to counter the acid). Should have put a large plastic sheet down first, or only worked outside. Fortunately I have a box or extra tiles...
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No. I dipped my 83 Colnago HT in it with the decal head badge (decal) with no ill affects.
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Brent
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I wonder if you could coat them with Vaseline as a "mask""?
#44
Off grid off road
I have been pondering on the environmental issue of these kind of acid baths, as in what do people do with this stuff when finished. I would not be happy if I knew people were 'dumping it on the ground' without knowing exactly what effect it has. The method of disposal of any kind of chemical waste must be well considered and done in a respectable way.
Used engine oil is 'biodegradable', given enough time, as are plastic shopping bags.
Biodegradable does not automatically mean safe or beneficial for the environment, and is never a permit for dumping.
PS Classtime the frame looks great after its bath 👍
Thanks
Last edited by Deepcherry; 04-02-21 at 05:30 AM.
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#45
aka Tom Reingold
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[MENTION=524038]Deepcherry[/MENTION] it says more than biodegradable.
How to Dispose of Oxalic Acid Solution
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“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#46
Off grid off road
[MENTION=152773]noglider[/MENTION]. Thanks for the link, here is a more direct link to that article:
https://www.hunker.com/12275090/how-...-acid-solution
According to that information simply dumping it on the ground would certainly not be the correct disposal method.
"IT IS READILY BIODEGRADABLE WHEN PROPERLY DILUTED AND NEUTRALIZED."
There are necessary neutralizing and testing stages involved before oxalic acid can be correctly poured away into the water system, which of course makes sense.
Stay safe and please have a conscience when undertaking these kind of jobs, for the benefit of everyone.
Thanks
https://www.hunker.com/12275090/how-...-acid-solution
According to that information simply dumping it on the ground would certainly not be the correct disposal method.
"IT IS READILY BIODEGRADABLE WHEN PROPERLY DILUTED AND NEUTRALIZED."
There are necessary neutralizing and testing stages involved before oxalic acid can be correctly poured away into the water system, which of course makes sense.
Stay safe and please have a conscience when undertaking these kind of jobs, for the benefit of everyone.
Thanks
Last edited by Deepcherry; 04-03-21 at 02:22 AM.
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#47
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Thanks to Classtime and all other contributors. I will soon be embarking on the journey for the first time. I will likely build a custom box like the OP did.
Why isn't this a stickie?
Why isn't this a stickie?
#48
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I've been meaning to try this OA bath and recently acquired a perfect candidate. With a rescued sheet of plywood, some scraps from a cabinet project, 1/2 a box of left over screws, and a couple evenings...
I think it will get wheels one day.
Measure cut cut cut whatever.
Fits normal frames.
On a dolly to roll wherever.
Two layers of some poly????
I think it will get wheels one day.
Measure cut cut cut whatever.
Fits normal frames.
On a dolly to roll wherever.
Two layers of some poly????
Last edited by seedsbelize2; 02-26-23 at 09:40 AM.
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My mind is blown. I'll leave it in until I return from the city tomorrow, so it can dry in the hot sun . I put about 16 tablespoons more in at around 9:30.
I'll have to see if I can dig up some before pics. It was quite bad.
I'll have to see if I can dig up some before pics. It was quite bad.
#50
Senior Member
So, does this method work for rust bubbles? Or just surface rust. I've got a frame that needs treatment and of course would prefer not to remove paint if I can.
Oh, and can I drop aluminum components into the acid bath too?
Oh, and can I drop aluminum components into the acid bath too?