High end Alloy Wheelsets w/ Cup and Cone Bearings?
#2
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That's it, AFAIK. Sucks, but unfortunately plenty of folks see nothing wrong with cartridge bearings in hubs, so there you go.
Out of the two, Shimano has the best design IMO, due to the cassette body being a stressed member that places the drive side axle bearing next to the dropout where it belongs. Unlike Campy, Shimano also uses cup and cone bearings for the cassette body, which are adjustable via shims, if you can crack open the cassette body (two notches in the bearing cup, left hand thread).
Mavic hubs are only cartridge bearing, and most have a poxy bushing for the inboard cassette body bearing, but at least their drive side axle bearing is towards the dropout.
If you could find a brand that uses angular contact cartridge bearings with adjustable preload, that'd be sign there's been some actual engineering done instead of this cookie cutter crap that passes for hub internals these days... Not sure anybody's bothered though.
BTW, 'high end alloy wheelset' is getting to be a bit of an oxymoron these days. Shimano's ally/carbon rims are pretty damn nice, but I'm not sure if they've got around to doing them wider like everyone wants now.
Out of the two, Shimano has the best design IMO, due to the cassette body being a stressed member that places the drive side axle bearing next to the dropout where it belongs. Unlike Campy, Shimano also uses cup and cone bearings for the cassette body, which are adjustable via shims, if you can crack open the cassette body (two notches in the bearing cup, left hand thread).
Mavic hubs are only cartridge bearing, and most have a poxy bushing for the inboard cassette body bearing, but at least their drive side axle bearing is towards the dropout.
If you could find a brand that uses angular contact cartridge bearings with adjustable preload, that'd be sign there's been some actual engineering done instead of this cookie cutter crap that passes for hub internals these days... Not sure anybody's bothered though.
BTW, 'high end alloy wheelset' is getting to be a bit of an oxymoron these days. Shimano's ally/carbon rims are pretty damn nice, but I'm not sure if they've got around to doing them wider like everyone wants now.
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Last edited by Kimmo; 05-27-21 at 03:31 AM.
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Perhaps @Kimmo gave a good answer
Shimano still sells most of their J-Bend hubs as individual hubs. I don't believe their straight-pull hubs are typically sold bare. But, there are options to build your own wheels.
Shimano's new cone lock is kind of cool, although the adjustment takes some getting used to, and they have good Labyrinth seals.
Shimano still sells most of their J-Bend hubs as individual hubs. I don't believe their straight-pull hubs are typically sold bare. But, there are options to build your own wheels.
Shimano's new cone lock is kind of cool, although the adjustment takes some getting used to, and they have good Labyrinth seals.
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You could buy a worn out set of Shimano wheels with the 16/20 (or 16/21) straight pull hubs (as long as the cones are still good, replacements can be hard to source, but if they're properly adjusted they should last almost forever) and lace them to whatever rims you like. I've actually never seen this done, but it should be common IMO.
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The one answer given is what i would have posted. I'm guessing it's what others would have posted too.
No point in a bunch of people posting the same comment over and again.
Get some shimano hubs, choose a quality rim with 32 holes, and use some double butted spokes.
No point in a bunch of people posting the same comment over and again.
Get some shimano hubs, choose a quality rim with 32 holes, and use some double butted spokes.
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You could buy a worn out set of Shimano wheels with the 16/20 (or 16/21) straight pull hubs (as long as the cones are still good, replacements can be hard to source, but if they're properly adjusted they should last almost forever) and lace them to whatever rims you like. I've actually never seen this done, but it should be common IMO.
#8
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Just for completeness - Fulcrum hubs have cup/cone bearings as well. That said, they're owned by Campagnolo, so while it's a separate brand, not actually a separate company.
(and my Zondas appear to have been stuck in customs for the past week... but at least they were in-stock and appear to have shipped out of PBK's warehouse...)
(and my Zondas appear to have been stuck in customs for the past week... but at least they were in-stock and appear to have shipped out of PBK's warehouse...)
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They don't use cartridge bearings on the cheaper models?
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#10
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Wheels below the Zonda or Fulcrum racing 3 use cartridge bearings.
#11
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They do. One of the sites I looked at (maybe CyclingTips?) did a teardown and showed that the Fulcrum Racing 5 was cartridge bearings, but the Racing 3 and Racing 0 had balls inside.
Edit: Corrected myself - DaveSSS had it right, it's the Racing 3 and Racing 0 that have balls, the Racing 5 is cartridge. Link below:
https://cyclingtips.com/2018/05/fulc...eelset-review/
Edit: Corrected myself - DaveSSS had it right, it's the Racing 3 and Racing 0 that have balls, the Racing 5 is cartridge. Link below:
https://cyclingtips.com/2018/05/fulc...eelset-review/
Last edited by aliasfox; 07-01-21 at 03:51 PM.
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Only Campy and Shimano do cup and cone.
Cup and cone are less efficient, so, there you go.
Cup and cone are less efficient, so, there you go.
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Lolwut. Vast majority of bearing drag is in the seals, and sealing of cartridge bearings is often sub par. Also, I've almost never seen a cartridge hub with preload adjustment, so no preload is probably a tiny bit less drag.
Give me sealing and preload any day, adjust them properly and never revisit them.
Factor in throwing away your bearings every time they get contaminated, probably not so efficient in the big picture.
Also, hub bearing drag is a trivial factor, given the tyre's leverage over the bearings.
Give me sealing and preload any day, adjust them properly and never revisit them.
Factor in throwing away your bearings every time they get contaminated, probably not so efficient in the big picture.
Also, hub bearing drag is a trivial factor, given the tyre's leverage over the bearings.
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Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
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That's what I do. Since Shimano hubs are so long-lasting, you don't even have to buy new.
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I reckon we've established that 32 spokes is more than you need, unless you've got some super light box section rims maybe.
If you wanna use poxy old J-bend flanges, you can lace em up 16/24, with the rear either standard or triplet.
If you wanna use poxy old J-bend flanges, you can lace em up 16/24, with the rear either standard or triplet.
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
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Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
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Lolwut. Vast majority of bearing drag is in the seals, and sealing of cartridge bearings is often sub par. Also, I've almost never seen a cartridge hub with preload adjustment, so no preload is probably a tiny bit less drag.
Give me sealing and preload any day, adjust them properly and never revisit them.
Factor in throwing away your bearings every time they get contaminated, probably not so efficient in the big picture.
Also, hub bearing drag is a trivial factor, given the tyre's leverage over the bearings.
Give me sealing and preload any day, adjust them properly and never revisit them.
Factor in throwing away your bearings every time they get contaminated, probably not so efficient in the big picture.
Also, hub bearing drag is a trivial factor, given the tyre's leverage over the bearings.
I use NTN bearings and they will probably outlast me. They never get contaminated, what are you talking about. Big picture nonsense.
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Hambini has proven the Shimano cup and cone bearings have more drag. Say 5 watts vs 2 watts. Might be trivial to you. Who is generating your wheel leverage, LOL. I have owned plenty of campy and shimano hubs. They have never been set it and forget it.
I use NTN bearings and they will probably outlast me. They never get contaminated, what are you talking about. Big picture nonsense.
I use NTN bearings and they will probably outlast me. They never get contaminated, what are you talking about. Big picture nonsense.
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
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Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
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For those that know how to do it, they're easy and cheap to rebuild and can last a long time.
I've got cartridge bearings in a Campy crank that got wet and all crunchy. I now have to figure out how to disassemble and clean the thing, then relube, reassemble, and hope for the best...
One thing that would be nice would be a longterm commitment for spare parts.
There is someone that is looking for Ultegra 6700 cones... almost impossible to find now, although it is not clear if it is just not available, or poor parts distribution.
And, of course the 6800 and 8000 cones are different.
I've got cartridge bearings in a Campy crank that got wet and all crunchy. I now have to figure out how to disassemble and clean the thing, then relube, reassemble, and hope for the best...
One thing that would be nice would be a longterm commitment for spare parts.
There is someone that is looking for Ultegra 6700 cones... almost impossible to find now, although it is not clear if it is just not available, or poor parts distribution.
And, of course the 6800 and 8000 cones are different.
#19
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One thing that would be nice would be a longterm commitment for spare parts.
There is someone that is looking for Ultegra 6700 cones... almost impossible to find now, although it is not clear if it is just not available, or poor parts distribution.
And, of course the 6800 and 8000 cones are different.
There is someone that is looking for Ultegra 6700 cones... almost impossible to find now, although it is not clear if it is just not available, or poor parts distribution.
And, of course the 6800 and 8000 cones are different.
What really burns me up is that they don't even pretend to supply replacements for their fabulous RS80/81/Dura-Ace carbon/ally rims, which being rim brake, are unquestionably consumables. God damn.
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
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Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
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I think part of the bike company's problems are a difficulty adapting to an online marketing. It is not any one company, but all of them from frame builders to component vendors.
Something like spare parts would naturally fit into an online support model.
Bike shops might not like to stock all the spare parts to support 70 year old components. But it would be easy enough for a central vendor to stock and distribute the parts. Then every year or so put in an order of 1000 or so "genuine" Nuovo Record cones.
Or have derailleur hangers in stock ready to ship.
It is interesting that companies like Wheels Manufacturing can make a business of cloning cones, derailleur hangers, etc that the OEM companies refuse to support.
Something like spare parts would naturally fit into an online support model.
Bike shops might not like to stock all the spare parts to support 70 year old components. But it would be easy enough for a central vendor to stock and distribute the parts. Then every year or so put in an order of 1000 or so "genuine" Nuovo Record cones.
Or have derailleur hangers in stock ready to ship.
It is interesting that companies like Wheels Manufacturing can make a business of cloning cones, derailleur hangers, etc that the OEM companies refuse to support.
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#21
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My main gripe with modern hubs is the idiotic rear wheel design, with the right hand bearing at or even behind the spoke flange. Its worse than old school screw on freewheels. Sadly even Shimano, Microspline does this now. I agree that classic shimano cup and cone hubs with a steel free hub body is still the best available. Id pick that for a wheel build.
#22
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You mean the one with the titanium freehub body
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
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