Older not Slower?
#51
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I reflect on this on my many long hill climbs in the Rockies. I'm 64, and I don't see many graybeards up there, mostly fit youngsters. I'm not passing many other cyclists. And I'm fine with that--I'm still getting up there for some excellent days.
Last week I made my annual 95-mile unsupported trip up Mt Evans, CO from my home in Golden, an 11,000' climb. This is the first year I made it on my first attempt, and it was my shortest time ever. I credit that to picking an excellent weather day, dialing in food and logistics, my head being in the right place, and all the cycling I've been doing during COVID. But I took more breaks above 13,000', and recovery took longer than usual. I don't feel any stronger than at any time in the past. To paraphrase Yogi Berra, 90% of the game is mental. The other half is physical.
Last week I made my annual 95-mile unsupported trip up Mt Evans, CO from my home in Golden, an 11,000' climb. This is the first year I made it on my first attempt, and it was my shortest time ever. I credit that to picking an excellent weather day, dialing in food and logistics, my head being in the right place, and all the cycling I've been doing during COVID. But I took more breaks above 13,000', and recovery took longer than usual. I don't feel any stronger than at any time in the past. To paraphrase Yogi Berra, 90% of the game is mental. The other half is physical.
#52
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When I was in my late teens and 20's I raced at Elite level, won a couple, was always in the top 10 for my region/state and did ok Nationally (once). I injured my knees, stopped racing, relocated to the UK, stopped cycling!
I started again at 50, two years ago after moving to Portugal. I've trained with a semi-pro 24yr old for the last 6 months and my fitness now isn't too bad - much better than I imagined it would ever be again. I should lose another 5kg to be really competitive though, I'm carrying too much extra weight. I'm around 4w/kg ftp and over 18w/kg in a sprint, holding 15w/kg for 10s. I've collected over 230 Strava kom's in the last 2 years - in a region where Pro racing with WT Teams is annual and many come here to train, not to mention local Pro's and Elites.
I'm not as fast as I was in my prime, I know that to be true, but I still think that over 50's - and 60's - can make the younger generations suffer when we want to.
I started again at 50, two years ago after moving to Portugal. I've trained with a semi-pro 24yr old for the last 6 months and my fitness now isn't too bad - much better than I imagined it would ever be again. I should lose another 5kg to be really competitive though, I'm carrying too much extra weight. I'm around 4w/kg ftp and over 18w/kg in a sprint, holding 15w/kg for 10s. I've collected over 230 Strava kom's in the last 2 years - in a region where Pro racing with WT Teams is annual and many come here to train, not to mention local Pro's and Elites.
I'm not as fast as I was in my prime, I know that to be true, but I still think that over 50's - and 60's - can make the younger generations suffer when we want to.
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Yes, the Algarve region, the beach 'holiday' destination part of Portugal. Here we have mostly MTB and Road racing, no track. Lisbon and the North are where road and track cycling is more popular. The Volta ao Algarve is the big Pro race of the year locally, an early season warm up for many WT Pro's. The Tour of Portugal is on now, that is in the regions above.
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Coggan's W/Kg is for young riders. I just wanted to share a post from a coach on another forum. 4 W/Kg for 60+ is a huge number, apparently, and 3-3.5 watts / kg is good. I fell just short of 4 in my 60th year but my Kg number is all wrong post-Covid
https://forum.fascatcoaching.com/t/m...targets/4388/2
https://forum.fascatcoaching.com/t/m...targets/4388/2
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Trainer Teddy Atlas is the Yogi Berra of boxing. As a commentator on ESPN boxing shows years ago, Teddy was famous/infamous for saying stuff like "90% of boxing is 75% mental." Having trained notorious headcases like the great Michael Moorer, Teddy knew whereof he misspoke.
But yeah, I always enjoyed his commentary on the fights and especially when he would talk to the fighters beforehand and discuss and act out how they could handle their opponent.
I also like Sean O'Grady and his "In the Gym" segment where he would discuss training. Watching him casually jump rope was amazing. He also described what is was like getting knocked out. The only time I heard such detailed description. He had, what, 86 fights by the time he was 26? Something like that.
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The best climbers are the ones with the highest watts per kilogram. Either the watts has to go up or the kilograms come down for improvement. You will not see a great climber @250 pounds, no matter how fit he is.
On the other hand, I've seen some diesel strong big men put the hurt on the little climbers on flat ground. That's when they become wheelsuckers.
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Last year at age 74 I saw PRs in a lot of Strava segments including a 1 mile flat where I averaged 25 mph. This year I'm struggling to get near those marks. Last year I was 181 lbs. This year I'm 191. I'm guessing that's it but I can't know for sure.
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But why did you gain 10 pounds? Whatever that was may have contributed to your slight performance loss.
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I have asked myself that same question. I don't know. My diet hasn't changed. I can only think I'm eating more but I can't see where that might be. I'm totally at a loss.
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With a DOB of 1949 I have lots of experience in getting old and a really mixed bag of good data (many years when doing some form of endurance exercise) and bad data (many years of very little exercise). A few snippets from my own experience.
1) I ran a solo mile on a track at age 38 that matched my competitive PR in high school (neither time would impress anybody). I could probably have gone faster in a competition at age 38, but my training at age 38 was a good bit better than my HS training. I was never a sprinter but my sprint speed was obviously less than in HS (despite the better conditioning).
2) I got back into running at age 50 after being mostly a non-runner since age 40.Persistent ankle sprains were what got me out of running shoes and into biking cleats. But there is no doubt that there was NO WAY that at age 50 I was going to match what I could do at age 40, even with good ankles. It just was not going to happen.
3) I had another 10 year exercise hiatus that ended in 2012 and this was on my bike. I really did not get serious until 2014 and was probably at my peak in 2016 (although I was fighting osteo-arthritis issues in my knee that affected my ability to do long rides). I mostly kept up my riding intensity until 2018 where I had about 6 months where my riding went down about 40% for no particular reason. And all of a sudden my fitness dropped by a good 30-40% (on a power basis). I picked my training back up but only got back half of what I had lost. This would have been late 2018 and I have lost a tad since then but not a huge amount.
dave
1) I ran a solo mile on a track at age 38 that matched my competitive PR in high school (neither time would impress anybody). I could probably have gone faster in a competition at age 38, but my training at age 38 was a good bit better than my HS training. I was never a sprinter but my sprint speed was obviously less than in HS (despite the better conditioning).
2) I got back into running at age 50 after being mostly a non-runner since age 40.Persistent ankle sprains were what got me out of running shoes and into biking cleats. But there is no doubt that there was NO WAY that at age 50 I was going to match what I could do at age 40, even with good ankles. It just was not going to happen.
3) I had another 10 year exercise hiatus that ended in 2012 and this was on my bike. I really did not get serious until 2014 and was probably at my peak in 2016 (although I was fighting osteo-arthritis issues in my knee that affected my ability to do long rides). I mostly kept up my riding intensity until 2018 where I had about 6 months where my riding went down about 40% for no particular reason. And all of a sudden my fitness dropped by a good 30-40% (on a power basis). I picked my training back up but only got back half of what I had lost. This would have been late 2018 and I have lost a tad since then but not a huge amount.
dave
Last edited by DaveLeeNC; 08-09-21 at 07:45 PM.
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In my family, eating is a competitive sport. At 64, I can still out-eat young grandnephews at a buffet. But my wife has noticed lately that I don't eat as much when I'm not riding a lot. That really pisses her off. We've also slowly changed to a plant-based diet, and I think that's contributing to overall health right now.
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I'm 61, and have only been cycling with any kind of seriousness for about 15 years. Mostly mtb for the first few years and then "gravel" riding ever since. I'd say my endurance is as good if not better, than ever. I do tons of climbing, due to where I live it's unavoidable. That said, I don't track my stats at all, I just go by how I feel. As for speed, I have no idea, except that I've always been the slowest guy out there! My main issue is, I need to make sure I'm doing other things than just riding for exercise, but it's all I want to do
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Is the gradual slowing and power loss as we age inevitable?
Can we still ride at a high level into our 60s and beyond? Can we get faster?
Can we still ride at a high level into our 60s and beyond? Can we get faster?
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Is the gradual slowing and power loss as we age inevitable?
Can we still ride at a high level into our 60s and beyond? Can we get faster?
My tentative answer, with a data set of size one, is "maybe?".
I'm just shy of 63, and yesterday I set a personal best time up a local steep road (Tunitas Creek, 1.2 miles, 9.4%). 11% faster than two months ago, and better than my previous best time in 2019. On each attempt, I rode with almost the same heart rate (141bpm) and effort (tempo), but yesterday I just had more power.
I can't explain the reason for the improvement, but it sure feels good to know that I'm getting even a little bit stronger.
Has anyone else seen improvements in their performance over time?
Can we still ride at a high level into our 60s and beyond? Can we get faster?
My tentative answer, with a data set of size one, is "maybe?".
I'm just shy of 63, and yesterday I set a personal best time up a local steep road (Tunitas Creek, 1.2 miles, 9.4%). 11% faster than two months ago, and better than my previous best time in 2019. On each attempt, I rode with almost the same heart rate (141bpm) and effort (tempo), but yesterday I just had more power.
I can't explain the reason for the improvement, but it sure feels good to know that I'm getting even a little bit stronger.
Has anyone else seen improvements in their performance over time?
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Posted this in another thread.
The darker line is all-time recorded bests* and the lighter line is from this season, so where they intersect it means that my PR is from 2021. It's nice to see that my 5' best was from this year. I can still improve.
* Best recorded by a power meter and saved to Strava.
The darker line is all-time recorded bests* and the lighter line is from this season, so where they intersect it means that my PR is from 2021. It's nice to see that my 5' best was from this year. I can still improve.
* Best recorded by a power meter and saved to Strava.
#68
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Is the gradual slowing and power loss as we age inevitable?
Can we still ride at a high level into our 60s and beyond? Can we get faster?
My tentative answer, with a data set of size one, is "maybe?".
I'm just shy of 63, and yesterday I set a personal best time up a local steep road (Tunitas Creek, 1.2 miles, 9.4%). 11% faster than two months ago, and better than my previous best time in 2019. On each attempt, I rode with almost the same heart rate (141bpm) and effort (tempo), but yesterday I just had more power.
I can't explain the reason for the improvement, but it sure feels good to know that I'm getting even a little bit stronger.
Has anyone else seen improvements in their performance over time?
Can we still ride at a high level into our 60s and beyond? Can we get faster?
My tentative answer, with a data set of size one, is "maybe?".
I'm just shy of 63, and yesterday I set a personal best time up a local steep road (Tunitas Creek, 1.2 miles, 9.4%). 11% faster than two months ago, and better than my previous best time in 2019. On each attempt, I rode with almost the same heart rate (141bpm) and effort (tempo), but yesterday I just had more power.
I can't explain the reason for the improvement, but it sure feels good to know that I'm getting even a little bit stronger.
Has anyone else seen improvements in their performance over time?
Life is a roller coaster ride, a punchy race with cobbles, mur, and a few nice downhills.
I'm certainly less 'punchy' than I was at any time younger, including 6 yrs back (now 72). Coming back from 2 very serious health issues, which are now lifelong issues, means anyhting I do now is an 'improvement'.
Stopped racing 2012, but kept riding... last 4 years have been very difficult and being able to ride was a rare, but sought after thing... so I walked when I could muster the strength.
Now riding is again a regular, if not daily thing (I hike/backpack, ice skate, swim also) - but I do something rigorous every day. 'Recovery' days are always active, just not intense.
The inevitable is inevitable... I'm good with that.
Started riding again regular in Late Jan, now at 3200+ mi, haven't totaled the time, but much slower than ever... LOL! Don't really care to do Strava, or do any online heavy thing, or log more than rides/time/dist/general route. Don;t ride with power, but do wear HR cause I shouldn't go near/over my AT ...
Love racing, but not interested in everything which comes attached - being where I am - Santa Barbara area - races are almost always 2-3 or more hours away, the added wait around time, doing a 45 min race is just not enticing... then driving back another 2+ (sometimes 4+) hours.... no fun.
But we do have regular rides for the race crowd here... I hope to ride again, mid-pack is ok... within the next year or so, and not get shelled... LOL!
'souplesse' returns slowly, 90+ rpm just now getting comfortable, climbing is always a challenge - but it does come...
... I know, more philosophical bull-sh*&T than substance, but, really, the point is enjoying the ride is as, or maybe more, important as the perceived destination.
The 'ride' may mean hammerfest, or hellacious long,steep climb or just an easy bimble - all good!
most important is to keep the wheel turnin...
Thx
Jurij
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I'm a young guy around these parts at age 50. But I find my overall speeds are my faster this year than any of my previous. I cannot climb hills like I used to. But I think my mental strength is far stronger than 10 years ago. I think its more of a confidence factor more than anything.
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My 70th year has been my best cycling year. So happy pushing the gears and staying fit. I was undoubtedly faster and stronger In my younger days but here I am. I wish you all good health and joy from your time in the saddle.
The top of mile’s climb with a moment or so of 21% grade.
The top of mile’s climb with a moment or so of 21% grade.
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Hell no. My best tested FTP was 365 which was 4.8w/kg and that was when I was 45. I started cycling at 35, training with a coach that knew what he was doing at 42 as opposed to clowns that called themselves coaches. No way in hell I could ever get back to that kind of power. The intervals I do these days are well below my 'easy' week levels that I did when I was fast.
#72
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Wednesday night I did an hour of power at the Carson Velodrome 250 meter indoor track 45 degree banking 2x60 laps with sprints every 10 laps.
Older not slower? I did not do this in my younger days (no opportunity) and today, I was riding with some of the better cyclists.
Here is a short video of the second 60 lap set that was motor paced.
Older not slower? I did not do this in my younger days (no opportunity) and today, I was riding with some of the better cyclists.
Here is a short video of the second 60 lap set that was motor paced.
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After reading this thread, I’d like to thank all of you for providing the inspiration to train harder and see if I can regain some or maybe all of my never formally trained/coached self in my 40s. If I surpass, that would be cream. You guys are awesome. Thank you
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#74
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My 70th year has been my best cycling year. So happy pushing the gears and staying fit. I was undoubtedly faster and stronger In my younger days but here I am. I wish you all good health and joy from your time in the saddle.
The top of mile’s climb with a moment or so of 21% grade.
The top of mile’s climb with a moment or so of 21% grade.