For the love of English 3 speeds...
10-27-21, 03:50 PM
Junior Member
Yeah this pre-dates "country of origin" trade rules. I've noticed too the build quality seems a tad rough. Cuts for clamps such as the seat post have large burrs, the tube sockets don't have fillets from brazing but gaps at the top of the socket to tube. Over all it's good and rides well before the tear down maintenance but not quite the craftsmanship I see in much earlier Raleighs.
I saw a trade film of the Raleigh Works, man they really cranked the frames out just hammering them together in jigs. Then they went through a check station for straightness and then on to brazing. There were of lot women in the brazing line. The paint section was Wow! hand dipped in a paint tank no gloves! Must have been a good leveling paint. I would say the film was post-war 40s or early 50s
I saw a trade film of the Raleigh Works, man they really cranked the frames out just hammering them together in jigs. Then they went through a check station for straightness and then on to brazing. There were of lot women in the brazing line. The paint section was Wow! hand dipped in a paint tank no gloves! Must have been a good leveling paint. I would say the film was post-war 40s or early 50s
Last edited by Greg R; 10-27-21 at 03:56 PM.
10-27-21, 05:10 PM
Phyllo-buster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,841
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2295 Post(s)
Liked 2,041 Times
in
1,250 Posts
Anecdotally, as a teen, I worked summers in my step fathers liquid chemical plant. I worked in a tank farm and subdivided railway tank cars into 45 gallon drums. I inhaled ( thru a mask) but was splashed, soaked and permeated with so many hence-banned chemicals it's scary. Perchloroethylene, Chorethelene Nu, Methylene Chloride, Caustic soda, acetates, acetones, you name it. At 63, I'm surprised, I guess I don't have a predisposition to getting cancer from these products...yet.
10-28-21, 04:13 AM
Junior Member
I have a dozen or more Raleigh cranksets here, every one has 9/16" threads.
I did stumble on a few boxes of Raleigh look a like pedals a few years ago that were made in India, those turned out to be French threaded for some reason. They were copies of the older Raleigh pedals from the 50's but minus the actual Raleigh logo. The brand was three initials that I never did figure out what it stood for, only that they were labeled, in English, "Made in India, for sale in Thailand". I seem to remember the brand being OTP, but don't quote me. I found two and a half cases of them at a flea market in FL about 15 years ago for $10 total. I ended up having to go through every last box because not every box of pedals contained a matched pair, I had to pair up left and rights and ended up with more rights than lefts. They sold on fleabay fast though I think I ended up with 6 extra right pedals and 26 matched pair or so. I broke down the remaining right pedals and used the rubber blocks to repair a few other older pedals over the years.
I did have a Canadian sold Mikado 'Sports', which was an entry level type 10 speed road bike, which had SR cottered cranks on it, the bike was most likely from 1979 or 80. The cranks had 1/2 threads. When I got it, the right crank had the broken stub of the pedal axle in it, the left crank was stripped. It left here with two 9/16" pedals.
I had a small frame, single speed bike badged only as DERBY Austria. with an oddball set of aluminum Thompson style cranks that were threaded with the wrong threads on the wrong side. the right side had left hand pedal threads and the left had right hand threads. It was far from new when I had it, and it had apparently survived for many years of use like that before I found it in a lot of bikes from a local auction.
There are a good many oddities out there, and there's no telling sometimes how they came about, so nothing would surprise me when it comes to something having odd threads or mismatched parts. Bike companies also improvised as needed during the bike boom to keep production up, so if on a particular week they ran short of 9/16" pedal axles or pedals, I wouldn't put it past them to have threaded a few batches of cranks so they could use pedals from a different source just to keep up with production.
While I'd have to guess that was less likely with Raleigh bikes from England back then, they did have factories all over the world. Also keep in mind that tolerances change as tooling wears over time, so the thread fit on an early model is likely much tighter than that of a later model on any production run.
There's also the fact that threads can be cut at varying depths, the percentage of thread depth can vary, as can the angle of the cut.
My guess would be that if they're Raleigh cranks, chances are they're 9/16" threaded and the threads are either fouled with rust, or slightly damaged in some way.
When using a thread pitch gauge to compare 9/16x20 threads vs 14x1.25mm threads, its very hard to tell the difference in pitch, the two are very close, but they are different. As is the diameter difference. The difference in thread pitch is more visible in thread count over a longer section than just trying to compare the cut of 7 or 8 threads on crank or pedal axle.
I've had crank arms that were known to be French threaded which were well worn over the years that would almost take a 9/16" pedal without re-tapping the threads. The 9/16" pedal would thread in all but the last two threads or so by hand and likely wouldn't have taken much to thread in all the way yet they were marked 14x1.25.
I was never a big fan of just running a 9/16" tap through the 14mm crank arms, the difference in diameter is far less than the depth of the threads so about 1/4 of the threads end up being cut through existing threads at the end of the cut. It works most of the time but is not idea for hard use. Its likely fine though in a steel crank arm used on a three speed for pleasure riding.
I did stumble on a few boxes of Raleigh look a like pedals a few years ago that were made in India, those turned out to be French threaded for some reason. They were copies of the older Raleigh pedals from the 50's but minus the actual Raleigh logo. The brand was three initials that I never did figure out what it stood for, only that they were labeled, in English, "Made in India, for sale in Thailand". I seem to remember the brand being OTP, but don't quote me. I found two and a half cases of them at a flea market in FL about 15 years ago for $10 total. I ended up having to go through every last box because not every box of pedals contained a matched pair, I had to pair up left and rights and ended up with more rights than lefts. They sold on fleabay fast though I think I ended up with 6 extra right pedals and 26 matched pair or so. I broke down the remaining right pedals and used the rubber blocks to repair a few other older pedals over the years.
I did have a Canadian sold Mikado 'Sports', which was an entry level type 10 speed road bike, which had SR cottered cranks on it, the bike was most likely from 1979 or 80. The cranks had 1/2 threads. When I got it, the right crank had the broken stub of the pedal axle in it, the left crank was stripped. It left here with two 9/16" pedals.
I had a small frame, single speed bike badged only as DERBY Austria. with an oddball set of aluminum Thompson style cranks that were threaded with the wrong threads on the wrong side. the right side had left hand pedal threads and the left had right hand threads. It was far from new when I had it, and it had apparently survived for many years of use like that before I found it in a lot of bikes from a local auction.
There are a good many oddities out there, and there's no telling sometimes how they came about, so nothing would surprise me when it comes to something having odd threads or mismatched parts. Bike companies also improvised as needed during the bike boom to keep production up, so if on a particular week they ran short of 9/16" pedal axles or pedals, I wouldn't put it past them to have threaded a few batches of cranks so they could use pedals from a different source just to keep up with production.
While I'd have to guess that was less likely with Raleigh bikes from England back then, they did have factories all over the world. Also keep in mind that tolerances change as tooling wears over time, so the thread fit on an early model is likely much tighter than that of a later model on any production run.
There's also the fact that threads can be cut at varying depths, the percentage of thread depth can vary, as can the angle of the cut.
My guess would be that if they're Raleigh cranks, chances are they're 9/16" threaded and the threads are either fouled with rust, or slightly damaged in some way.
When using a thread pitch gauge to compare 9/16x20 threads vs 14x1.25mm threads, its very hard to tell the difference in pitch, the two are very close, but they are different. As is the diameter difference. The difference in thread pitch is more visible in thread count over a longer section than just trying to compare the cut of 7 or 8 threads on crank or pedal axle.
I've had crank arms that were known to be French threaded which were well worn over the years that would almost take a 9/16" pedal without re-tapping the threads. The 9/16" pedal would thread in all but the last two threads or so by hand and likely wouldn't have taken much to thread in all the way yet they were marked 14x1.25.
I was never a big fan of just running a 9/16" tap through the 14mm crank arms, the difference in diameter is far less than the depth of the threads so about 1/4 of the threads end up being cut through existing threads at the end of the cut. It works most of the time but is not idea for hard use. Its likely fine though in a steel crank arm used on a three speed for pleasure riding.
Likes For dirtman:
10-28-21, 06:38 AM
Bikes are okay, I guess.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 6,938
Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2647 Post(s)
Liked 2,446 Times
in
1,557 Posts
How about a nice Raleigh ladies' Sports trike conversion?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...03171097764954
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...03171097764954
10-28-21, 06:56 AM
Bikes are okay, I guess.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 6,938
Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2647 Post(s)
Liked 2,446 Times
in
1,557 Posts
Likes For ConnoisseurEqua:
10-28-21, 03:01 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 2,159
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 912 Post(s)
Liked 514 Times
in
343 Posts
10-28-21, 04:06 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,571
Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1028 Post(s)
Liked 439 Times
in
287 Posts
Likes For gster:
10-28-21, 07:20 PM
Junior Member
This board ROCKS! Every bike I've acquired so far (except a Schwinn) has too many, too few, or no working balls. Thank you all for the posted info. I've got an order in for 100 of each size and gonna do it right.
10-29-21, 02:03 AM
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 106
Bikes: 1975 Raleigh Superbe, Abeni Triatlon, 1992 GT Timberline custom "neo-klunker", 1988 Miyata Valley Runner Townie
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 34 Times
in
18 Posts
Hi All,
It looks like Sun Ringle may no longer be making 26 x 1 3/8 rims anymore. I checked their 2021 rim chart and there's no 590 listed.
I need to re-lace the rear wheel on my Raleigh Superbe and I'd been planning on using an NOS Brampton 3-speed, which is 40 hole. I'd like to use an aluminium rim, but it would seem options are almost nil.
Has anyone heard different, regarding CR18's?
SJS Cycles in the UK has their own branded rims, which I may have to go with if I can't find anything else, but freight is gonna kill me down here in Australia
It looks like Sun Ringle may no longer be making 26 x 1 3/8 rims anymore. I checked their 2021 rim chart and there's no 590 listed.
I need to re-lace the rear wheel on my Raleigh Superbe and I'd been planning on using an NOS Brampton 3-speed, which is 40 hole. I'd like to use an aluminium rim, but it would seem options are almost nil.
Has anyone heard different, regarding CR18's?
SJS Cycles in the UK has their own branded rims, which I may have to go with if I can't find anything else, but freight is gonna kill me down here in Australia
Likes For Commando:
10-29-21, 04:10 AM
Standard Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 4,249
Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1293 Post(s)
Liked 929 Times
in
485 Posts
What did you find out?
10-29-21, 08:39 AM
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: North Shore, MA
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Gratefully snipped from the above post:
Just because I was curious I measured the wrench flats on my pedals (as I wrote about in a few posts earlier). My micrometer measures them at 15.3mm and 0.6 inches. The 5/8" wrench was a better fit for me than a 16mm wrench.
The cranks arms have what looks like an embossed "V" in a rectangle, does that mean anything?
There's also the fact that threads can be cut at varying depths, the percentage of thread depth can vary, as can the angle of the cut.
My guess would be that if they're Raleigh cranks, chances are they're 9/16" threaded and the threads are either fouled with rust, or slightly damaged in some way.
When using a thread pitch gauge to compare 9/16x20 threads vs 14x1.25mm threads, its very hard to tell the difference in pitch, the two are very close, but they are different. As is the diameter difference. The difference in thread pitch is more visible in thread count over a longer section than just trying to compare the cut of 7 or 8 threads on crank or pedal axle.
I've had crank arms that were known to be French threaded which were well worn over the years that would almost take a 9/16" pedal without re-tapping the threads. The 9/16" pedal would thread in all but the last two threads or so by hand and likely wouldn't have taken much to thread in all the way yet they were marked 14x1.25.
I was never a big fan of just running a 9/16" tap through the 14mm crank arms, the difference in diameter is far less than the depth of the threads so about 1/4 of the threads end up being cut through existing threads at the end of the cut. It works most of the time but is not idea for hard use. Its likely fine though in a steel crank arm used on a three speed for pleasure riding.
My guess would be that if they're Raleigh cranks, chances are they're 9/16" threaded and the threads are either fouled with rust, or slightly damaged in some way.
When using a thread pitch gauge to compare 9/16x20 threads vs 14x1.25mm threads, its very hard to tell the difference in pitch, the two are very close, but they are different. As is the diameter difference. The difference in thread pitch is more visible in thread count over a longer section than just trying to compare the cut of 7 or 8 threads on crank or pedal axle.
I've had crank arms that were known to be French threaded which were well worn over the years that would almost take a 9/16" pedal without re-tapping the threads. The 9/16" pedal would thread in all but the last two threads or so by hand and likely wouldn't have taken much to thread in all the way yet they were marked 14x1.25.
I was never a big fan of just running a 9/16" tap through the 14mm crank arms, the difference in diameter is far less than the depth of the threads so about 1/4 of the threads end up being cut through existing threads at the end of the cut. It works most of the time but is not idea for hard use. Its likely fine though in a steel crank arm used on a three speed for pleasure riding.
The cranks arms have what looks like an embossed "V" in a rectangle, does that mean anything?
10-29-21, 06:19 PM
Bikes are okay, I guess.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 6,938
Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2647 Post(s)
Liked 2,446 Times
in
1,557 Posts
Several 3-speeds from a shop's collection in Ann Arbor MI, Many of them very cheap.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...43747945746506
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...43747945746506
Likes For thumpism:
10-29-21, 10:00 PM
Junior Member
Gratefully snipped from the above post:
Just because I was curious I measured the wrench flats on my pedals (as I wrote about in a few posts earlier). My micrometer measures them at 15.3mm and 0.6 inches. The 5/8" wrench was a better fit for me than a 16mm wrench.
The cranks arms have what looks like an embossed "V" in a rectangle, does that mean anything?
Just because I was curious I measured the wrench flats on my pedals (as I wrote about in a few posts earlier). My micrometer measures them at 15.3mm and 0.6 inches. The 5/8" wrench was a better fit for me than a 16mm wrench.
The cranks arms have what looks like an embossed "V" in a rectangle, does that mean anything?
Whitworth threads are 55 degree.vs 60.
10-30-21, 02:11 AM
Full Member
How about a nice Raleigh ladies' Sports trike conversion?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...03171097764954
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...03171097764954
10-30-21, 06:21 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked 155 Times
in
63 Posts
10-31-21, 01:23 PM
Newbie
Just picked up a pair of Raleigh Sports in rough shape but all original. The hubs are '72 on the men's and '73 on the women's. Almost done with the women's bike, but the cotters on the crank are frozen solid. Tried penetrating oil for a week, but short of bashing them with a hammer and/or drilling them out (which I don't want to do) what is the best method for getting them out?
10-31-21, 01:26 PM
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,626
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3870 Post(s)
Liked 2,563 Times
in
1,577 Posts
I'm thinking about getting some of these Kool-Stop "John Bull"-style brake pads so that I can re-use the original holders on my Armstrong. Anybody have experience with the fit? https://www.ebay.com/itm/324430427215
Turns out that I'll need to file the rears down a little bit for clearance to the rims, but that's fine!
10-31-21, 06:59 PM
Full Member
Just picked up a pair of Raleigh Sports in rough shape but all original. The hubs are '72 on the men's and '73 on the women's. Almost done with the women's bike, but the cotters on the crank are frozen solid. Tried penetrating oil for a week, but short of bashing them with a hammer and/or drilling them out (which I don't want to do) what is the best method for getting them out?
__________________
TigerTom
TigerTom
10-31-21, 07:10 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,139
Mentioned: 481 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3801 Post(s)
Liked 6,618 Times
in
2,594 Posts
Oh, those look very promising! I rode my '37 Sports today, and the John Bull pads are only suggestive of stopping, and that's even with aluminum rims. Might have to go for the Kool Stops.
10-31-21, 10:07 PM
Newbie
Thank you. I haven't made it all the way through this thread but will look for it. I've also found one made from a ball joint splitter that I will probably try.
11-01-21, 01:56 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 2,159
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 912 Post(s)
Liked 514 Times
in
343 Posts
11-01-21, 04:57 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,571
Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1028 Post(s)
Liked 439 Times
in
287 Posts
Often purchased with good intentions to "get in shape" and then
quickly relegated to the basement or back of the garage.
Last edited by gster; 11-03-21 at 04:17 AM.
11-01-21, 08:41 AM
Senior Member
New Crank Cotter Press
Top notch tools and cotters.
Top notch tools and cotters.
11-01-21, 10:14 AM
Junior Member
but short of bashing them with a hammer and/or drilling them out (which I don't want to do) what is the best method for getting them out?
Sometimes, rarely, but sometimes a little heat aids the penetrating oil and expands the crank arm just enough to start movement. Be careful around paint and cableling..
Usually the tough ones get ruined, they're consumables. Don't waste time saving a buggered one, find quality new ones.
Look for RJ the Bike Guy videos and BikeSmith's articles on cotter pins. They helped me and I have a cotter press from BikeSmith coming so I'll see how that turns out.
Edit:
The tool came today, so I tried it out on an old Churchill. It's made extremely well and worked great. Instructions came in an email which also included procedure to use the tool to INSTALL the pins. Money well invested.
Last edited by Greg R; 11-01-21 at 08:00 PM.
Likes For Greg R:
