RustyJames 

I like to see the potential in everything (not just bikes) but if someone wheeled that in front of me and said it was free I would be inclined to walk away. A lot of force was transmitted into that machine and much of that force may have telegraphed into other bits on the bike. I hope the salvage operation goes well and for the sake of your well being, proceed cautiously Kurt.

cudak888 

I'll agree with you on the right stay, but we haven't seen enough of the left to know whether we're looking at a tube that has been compromised to the point of a kink, or whether it looks worse than it is based on the divot for tire clearance. Until it's all stripped down, I'll reserve judgement.

Either way though, I'd make a point here and say that it's not necessarily a bad thing to cold-set this mess back into alignment if the chainstays are to be replaced. Better to work with a frame in some sort of

Interesting. Because of the non-drive-side scrapes, I've been envisioning the bike with the drive side facing the automobile, not the other way around. But if it was drive-side out, perhaps the rack was hit on the left rear, fell off, and the rightmost rack strap remained attached, dragging the remains 180 degrees around to rub on the curb. It's a possibility.

No, I think there's something wrong with the derailer.

No signs of there having been a rider on it when it was hit; even if there was, no toe clips or straps suggests that the bike would have separated from the rider from friction alone if that were the case.

Frame is dusty from sitting, but otherwise looks as if it was hung up indoors before being wrecked. No evidence of anything that would warrant some CSI: Miami forensics.

The saddle, dropout, and a part of the Campy pedal on the left side got scraped (it's also missing the LH dustcap while the RH is present); I'm assuming it triangulated over these bits. Whatever the case, there was some weight on the rear wheel for it to be scraped as bad as it has.

-Kurt

cudak888 

When you walk away from these, make sure the Campy and Superbe works it's way to me, eh?

I'm not too particularly worried about the salvageable bits on it, except the possibility of the front rim being toast from the missing spoke, and the obligatory handlebar and stem inspection. I'm less worried about bent bars than corrosion pitting though. The latter seems to be a much more prevalent hidden horror as of recent.

-Kurt

pastorbobnlnh 

But... DON'T let the LBS talk you into replacing the freewheel. Lot's of like left in that Regina (I'm asuming)!

Dang, Kurt, you really take on the unusual projects.

gearbasher

Alien abduction?

cudak888 

I seem to have acquired a lot more five speeds between Friday and Sunday with the lot that this one came with. Rather curious to see what it'll take to wrangle the wheel out of the frame.

Nah. It would have come back looking like this pile of steaming crap.



Speaking of which, this proves an industrial designer can engineer a product while remaining entirely ignorant to the best practices already known about said product.

-Kurt

mech986 

If you’re trying to take out the wheel relatively intact, that will be a real trick or endeavor. If just trying to remove it in pieces, probably cut the spokes, split the tire and rim into two or three pieces, and then open the stays to remove the hub. Did the rear brakes or brake bolt get bent? Wonder if the chain is salvageable?

I suspect trying to get the right chain and seat stay to approximate their original lengths will be the tough part. The left side looks like a more straightforward (no pun intended) dropout alignment once the BB lug area is assessed.

Good practice frame for severe repairs. Think if it was Aluminum, titanium or worse, carbon.

cudak888 

It slipped right out. Pushed the wheel forward of the drops, removed the derailer from the dropout for ease, unwrapped the chain, and the wheel tried to fall to the floor. Chain looks fine.





Part of the axle is missing on the rear Phil hub, and the inner shaft started to pull out as I undid the drive side bolt.





Speaking of which, this has to be in a vise for any straightening. It's most definitely not budging at all - even with the Park straightening tool - if in the conventional stand (not that one would want to, lest they damage the seattube). Still, but this compound bend is a lot stronger than one might think from looking at it:



Some more looks at the impressive carnage on the tire and rim:

cudak888 

Obvious gravel/concrete dust:



Pedal closeup:




By the way, despite the phenomenal maintenance of the rest of this machine, the stem is completely stuck. Of course it would be. Can't have an easy time of it, can we?

-Kurt

jdawginsc 

Might be an interesting source for Pinterest projects for decor...

RobertUI 

Too bad about that rear hub. I LOVE the design of all the Phil stuff!

cudak888 

Oh, it's not dead yet. Just needs an axle swap.

I've got a hydraulic press

-Kurt

wrk101

I'd find a frame builder to check it out. May be fixable. I'd say replace both stays, and maybe the non-drive side drop out since you are in the neighborhood anyway. I'd be tempted to paint the chain stays black. Much easier than trying to match. And IMO, black stays would look OK.

gugie 

Sure, I can fix that!

For the price of a brand new frame.

cudak888 

And now for another episode of Be Fruitless and Fustrify:





The Park chainstay straightening tool could only do so much. But I was impressed at what it did do.



And here's the results after I lost interest - or rather, realized the limitations - of what I can do. The seatstay still makes the rear triangle ludicrously strong (what was that nonsense in the recent Pinarello thread about cold setting rear triangles being bad?), and the left isn't isn't far off from being where it should be.



I was surprised to see it develop a kink here. I think the left stay was pulled backwards so hard that it weakened the 531 on the outside edge. Inner dimple is fine.



Dropout is cracky cracky. Nothing unexpected.





I'm probably going to throw it on Mike Terraferma's frame table anyway. Just for giggles.

-Kurt

52telecaster

Kind of amazing how well it held it's shape. Quality bike tubing is pretty damn impressive.

cudak888 

Well, if I play my cards right, this thing just might get put back together. It'll probably be another three weeks before anything starts - but in the meantime, if anyone has an orphaned, left-side 1010A - eyeletted - that they want to sell, I'm open to it.

You said it. These 531 stays do not bend with the ease of hi-ten.

-Kurt

cudak888 

Not much of an update, but at least it's ready(ish) for the frame table and jig as soon as I cut the stem out and pull the fork. Fixed cup wouldn't budge, not even with the beautiful Var tool. I wound up resorting to my old, homebuilt bodge job of a tool - which has yet to fail. I've also never cut it down and simplified it as I should, but that's another story.





This is, however, the first time I've ever had to wail on it with a sledgehammer:



Everything came apart with no damage (hahaha!); now to take care of the stem. Really don't want to sacrifice yet another Cinelli stem to the gods of stuck stems but...well, at least there will be more spare binder bolts.

-Kurt

Mad Honk 

Kurt,
When are you gonna soak the stem in atf/acetone to get it loose? It has worked wonderfully for a lot of al-fe bonding for me. Smiles, MH

cudak888 

Funny that you should ask, as I dunked the fork a few days ago. I'm experimenting with something else though - mostly to satisfy my own curiosity: Oxalic acid. I've always wanted to see what it does in this scenario. If it removes rust and it eats aluminum, in theory it should have an effect on a stuck stem, but I've yet to read about anyone trying it (probably because it doesn't work, but I want first-hand experience!)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the idea of the ATF/acetone trick is that the acetone helps draw the slippery ATF into the gap between the stem and the steerer, correct? I'm not convinced it'd work in all scenarios, but if this doesn't work, I'll give it a try.

Here are the pictures. I cut the stem nice and long so I can grab it in the vice later.



Cinelli stems get wider the closer you get to the top of the quill, so I tapered it with the handheld belt sander. Could have used a grinding disc, but the belt sander was easier to grab at that moment.



Also rather lucky (if I want to apply pressure from the bottom) that the stem wedge fell right out of the steerer. No nails or rough spots around the crown in this fork.



And here it has sat for the last few days. Not sure if I should up the oxalic content.



-Kurt

RandolphCarter

I've never used oxalic acid to free up stuck posts or stems.

In my experience, OA hasn't 'eaten' aluminum, it etched it very slightly and left a dull or hazy finish.

Different temperature, duration, and concentration of the OA bath may yield different results.

I'm interested to see if this works. Please keep us updated!

cudak888 

The fork has been dunked for a few days now to no effect. Going to neutralize the OA bath and swap over to a smaller container of ATF + acetone to see what happens. I still have my doubts; I dare say the aluminum needs to be dissolved for this to work.

Meanwhile, developments with the frame:



Seat tube was twisted to the right by a good ~15mm, worse than what the photo suggests.



Headtube was also off plane. Some unceremonious cold-setting fixed it:



Chopping off the stays from the BB. The Woodrup is brass brazed, not silver brazed, so the tubes have to be ground out with a die grinder; heating them up could potentially get the BB too toasty - and result in it cracking when the tube is pulled:



Lots of tension in this sucker:



Paint removed from the left stay in preparation for it's removal. It had a surprisingly small amount of brass holding it in.



Left dropout out, and the tip of the right chainstay is off too.



Next order of business is to die grind the chainstays out of the BB, then reconstruct the left side of the rear triangle.

Also: I have this NOS set of Campagnolo 1010A's that I'm willing to trade for an identical set with eyelets.



-Kurt

RandolphCarter

If galvanic corrosion is what is bonding the stem to the fork, ammonia can break that loose. It's worked for me several times.

As has thermal cycling- in your case, dunking the fork upside down in a pot of boiling water until everything heats up, followed by a bath in ice water might make the metals expand and contract at varying rates and break it loose.

One time I had a stuck seat post where those efforts did nothing and I needed to use lye to dissolve the aluminum enough to get it out. Worked great! The lye even happily dissolved the hair, skin, and fat on my forearm.

cudak888 

I've tried ammonia in the past without real success, but I can try it again as part of the various attempts to find a lye substitute (yes, fully aware of it and I don't want anything to do with the stuff).

In my experience, the severity of how stuck a given seatpost or stem is varies between the particular case one has on hand; the worst of these essentially boils down to the corrosion basically creating a ~0.2mm thick wedge around the stem's circumference. Imagine if the entire stem were its own expander wedge.

I dare say the effectiveness of ammonia or acetone/ATF boils down to whether either solution is thin enough to permeate between this oxidation layer and create enough lubricity to allow them to be pulled apart, rather than eating away at any significant amount of aluminum itself.

-Kurt

cudak888 

Round two - only I still haven't found time to pick up some acetone.

I figured I'd give it a shot with mineral spirits instead. Can't hurt; I probably won't get around to picking up the necessary acetone for another week anyway.



That reminds me, I really ought to clean this dump of a workshop - once I'm done fixing every other mess that's been helpfully piled up for me.

Submerged in Type F goodness:



-Kurt