albrt 

I mainly use the Classic and Vintage forum. It occurred to me that many of the forum members volunteer at co-ops. Co-op related posts don't always get much traction because most of the readers are not involved in co-ops, and aren't necessarily sympathetic to the co-op point of view. For example, many Classic and Vintage enthusiasts seem to have trouble wrapping their heads around the common co-op problem of having too many old bike parts lying around. Sometimes the reactions are even a little hostile, for example if somebody perceives that a co-op related post is promoting sales.

I wonder if a separate forum for people involved in running co-ops would generate any interest?

If there is already a forum that is used for this purpose, could somebody direct me to it?

Moe Zhoost

I'd be interested. I spend most Wednesday afternoons volunteering at our local co-op. Having been involved with culling out old parts, I'm always a bit sad about disposing of parts that someone may need, but that's the only solution with limited space. I reckon someone could develop an ISO list distributed to co-ops but that then leads to the issue of time to search, package, and ship. Also, co-ops should not put themselves in a position to compete with local shops for part sales.

In any case, I'd support the proposal

Polaris OBark

I'd be interested as someone who might like to start doing this before I age out.

EVlove

Great idea and timely. I semi-followed that recent thread about some C&V frames gathering dust and scratches in a coop, or that's what it should have been about, before poor communication derailed it.

I only recently got back into riding and in the process, ended up donating two 90s Trek MTBs to our local coop, which I actually had to look up first. The Bike Connector in Lowell. Great place and I would like to volunteer, but at this time they only have limited hours on two weekdays and that just doesn't work with my job. I was allowed to explore the back of the shop which, after only two years in existence (even less than that at the current location), is already crammed full of steel road bikes that are difficult to find new homes for. I gather it's pretty much the same everywhere. I could see myself presenting a few of those here on BF every now and then, maybe maintain a BF account for the coop, that sort of thing. Right now it seems the coop only has time for putting the occasional really nice donation on Facebook.

One problem seems to be forum rules about what constitutes a for-sale offer. I think this would need to get clarified by forum management.

CliffordK

Hmmm

I believe there is a hidden "Bike Business" subforum. I don't know what is in it, but perhaps discussing pricing, parts availability, etc. It doesn't necessarily apply to volunteers, but would apply to the management.

As far as a co-op forum. I'm not convinced of the need. If there are "mechanics" issues, then it would fall under mechanics. Someone posted recently about fenders.

I used to shop some at our local co-op. And I have volunteered at their Valet bike parking. But I got a little annoyed at the management for several issues.

Then the old co-op appears to have permanently closed during the COVID crisis. Another one has opened or expanded nearby, and I have yet to go check it out.

Anyway, I'm not convinced a separate forum would be that helpful. But, would be open to hear what one thinks would be discussed.

CliffordK

I missed that thread. I did find this dusty co-op thread.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...149-co-op.html

Our co-op had a bunch of battered bikes and frames hanging upstairs. Some restorable with a lot of effort. Then a few years ago they just decided to no allow customers upstairs to browse and purchase the old frames/bikes/junk.

About that time I thought the whole co-op started heading down hill, and I think they fired some of the better employees.

EVlove

It was moved to C&V sales and in fact just now got locked because another (? not sure) mod decided it wasn't kosher there, either. Which is what I meant about the forum rules. I do understand the forum needs full paying members to pay the bills.

Thanks for the link, I wasn't aware of that thread.

albrt 

I agree that co-op mechanic questions can go in the mechanics forum, but co-ops have a number of unique challenges such as recruiting and managing volunteers, fund-raising, having more old bikes and parts than you can sell on the local market, etc. Management issues would be particularly interesting, both at the board level and at the shop level.

zandoval 

Wish I had a Co-Op in my area. Our closest bike shop is 40 miles out in the big city, Austin... Ha. I don't think what ever friendly local bike shops existing will be around for long. The real bike shops that I feel comfortable in are all gone because they just can't afford to stay in business. No Profit! Co-Ops very well could be the solution. Certainly better then these Bike Dealerships, posing as bike shops, marketing the latest high dollar bikes, and most interested in long term financing.

I don't think a Co-Op link/thread should be buried deep in the Classic Vintage section of our forum. It needs its own place. After all, most of the bikes in a Co-Op are not just Classic or Vintage... Just Bikes.

I would think the bikeforums.net would fully support Bike Co-Ops in every way. Of course a specific Co-Op section will need a really good, intuitive, active moderator. That could be very hard to find!

zandoval 

Yes... Sounds familiar with just about any Co-Op. Most times people with the best intentions start these ventures but in the end it takes a really dynamic leader and lots or WORK to keep them going...

CliffordK

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center...iate_Transport
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_VanderTuin

I think it had a dynamic leader in 1992.

But, over the next 30 years, time took its toll.

By about 2020, Jan was in his 70's or 80's, and had a bad case of Parkinson's disease.

He was having difficulties welding, and the fabrication component of the shop was crumbling.

By the end, he was rarely in the retail part of the shop, and rarely interacted with customers.

I had thought about trying to resurrect the fabrication part of the co-op, and work towards some longevity of the business. But, Jan had consolidated all the control of the business under himself. And, I could hardly get 3 words out of him. Usually completely ignored.

The shop closed down at the beginning of the COVID crisis and never reopened. At this point, I don't know what happened to Jan, and don't see any recent notes on the web about him.

albrt 

I wasn't thinking about it when I posted this, but perhaps the most valuable function of a co-op forum would be as a source of information for people thinking of starting a co-op. There are a lot of different business models out there.

I also wonder whether transitioning to a co-op model might be an option for local bike shop owners approaching retirement, especially if nobody wants to buy out the business on a commercial basis.

CliffordK

It seems like around here most used bike shops are co-ops, and new bike shops are traditional.

But, that is a good point about the formation and organization of a co-op.

As far as longevity of a business. That would require very good organization of the non-profit structure.

We've got a local non-profit building supply store that has organized around some kind of a management board, and it seems to be with fairly stable footing.

However, we've had a couple of co-ops that have closed or morphed.

So, Burley Trailers apparently started as a small family business. Then became a co-op. Then sold to become a larger (but still local) business, and now mostly importing everything from China.

As mentioned the Eugene bike co-op, Human Powered Machines or Center for Appropriate Transport was sold out with COVID, and I think the delivery portion remained, but the consumer and public outreach part closed. The business always seemed to be centered around the founder that just got OLD.

Anyway, it would be complex to maintain a long term cooperative business past the lifespans of the founders.

albrt 

If it makes any difference to the powers that be, I would be willing to help moderate a co-op forum.

albrt 

I'm not interested in starting an argument. I did not say anybody in C&V has a problem with the co-op form of organization.

I saw the recent situation and I understand that particular person rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. But that is definitely not the first time a co-op person got a hostile reaction for not understanding all the nuances of talking business on C&V.

JoeTBM 

We would definitely participate ibn a co-op subforum.

We are not a co-op but a volunteer shop. Would love to develop the concept of a co-op here in Flagler County Fl as part of our goals but we would need additional space, etc. Right now we have only about 750 sq ft. A we work on all types of donated bikes, we reside mostly in the "Bicycle Mechanics" sub forum.

albrt 

The shop I work with is probably more what you would call a volunteer shop than a true co-op. We started as an anarchist collective, and now we are a 501(c)(3) staffed by volunteers. Most of our stuff is donated.

That's one of the things I would be interested in talking about - how different local shops are organized and financed.

louky

I think a forum like this would be welcomed and can't understand why there would be any resistance (if there is any). I agree that there are specific questions and topics that would be best served by a standalone forum or sub-forum. I have been helped by JoeTBM who has been generous with his time and knowledge when I had questions. I am torn between asking these questions via PM to him or posting them. The logic to me is that I CAN'T be the only person that has need for these answers, and it is more efficient to post them and get the answers for everyone. I am not a member of a co-op or volunteer bike org. I have been getting and fixing nonfunctional bikes and getting them back on the street at the lowest possible cost. I have contributed some of these bikes to a stressed family organization and have contributed some to people doing homeless outreach. Some of these bikes I end up putting on Marketplace, but often sell them at a heavy discount after meeting the buyer, (or NC if I am struck that way). Lately, I have been taking completed bikes to a location that feeds free lunches to (mostly) unhoused folks. Most of these people arrive walking, but some arrive on bikes so there is a bike rack. I leave the completed bike in the rack with a "free" tag and it's gone the next day. I get "paid" in a lot of ways. I like fixing the bikes, I like knowing that they are kept out of the waste stream for a few years, I like thinking of the uplift that someone gets when getting the unexpected boon, and I like looking for the bikes I left amongst those riding on the streets. I would be drawn to a volunteer organization that fixed bikes but don't think there is one and I don't personally have to energy to try to start one. I would definitely benefit from a co-op or volunteer forum, though I don't fit nicely into either of those categories.

JoeTBM 

So did you ever get contacted by admin about this......??

albrt 

I haven't heard from anyone. I started posting about our group in the SW regional forum, which does not get much other traffic, but that doesn't really accomplish the goal of talking to other co-op people about co-ops.

Do you know if there is somebody I should contact, besides just posting the idea here in the suggestion forum?

cb400bill

I have forwarded a link to this thread to the Admin staff.

albrt 

Thanks.

albrt 

I am still interested and willing to assist with a co-op forum.

JoeTBM 

Have you ever heard back from them on this?

cb400bill

I have asked for an update. I do know that Tech has been busy behind the scenes dealing with an update that didn't go well.