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Carbon fiber bike life span

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Carbon fiber bike life span

Old 11-25-22, 09:14 PM
  #101  
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Back when I worked for Kodak/Sierra Nevada the Healthnet guys rode Giant TCX frames. Some of the guys definitely complained about their frames losing stiffness over the season. A guy I know that worked for Schwinn (I think) at the time took a new frame and an old frame to a facility that they had in CO and checked the frames on a rig they used. As the story goes the old frame was around 20% more flexible in certain areas compared to the new frame. These days I'd say that's not possible unless some major mistakes are made.
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Old 11-25-22, 10:09 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by oldbobcat
Is this a cross-examination? I want my lawyer.
No, just a simple question. Since the topic of the thread is the lifespan of carbon frames, I thought it would interesting to know how old yours was when it starting having noticeable problems.
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Old 11-25-22, 10:40 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by cxwrench
As the story goes the old frame was around 20% more flexible in certain areas compared to the new frame. These days I'd say that's not possible unless some major mistakes are made.
I was hearing "micro-tears in the resin." Maybe somebody mixed a bad batch.

The "modular monocoque" construction used by the major mass producers certainly improves the consistency of carbon frames. This standardizes the construction of the key junctures of the frame--head tube, seat cluster, bottom bracket, and fork. It also limits the number of available sizes and possible variations in geometry. I'd read that Scott pioneered this technology with the first gen CR1, that they had problems with their fabricator in Taiwan, but corrected it with more training and closer supervision. This would have been after 2002 and before 2008. And there are constant improvements in the resins used to bond the carbon. And the post-preg carbon sleeve frames by Time might be totally beyond reproach.

I had a chance to demo the first Trek Emonda SLs a few years ago. The SL is made from OCLV 500, just like my Madone. Same geometry, just hundred grams lighter or so, and a newer Shimano drivetrain. It rode just like my 2012 Madone. For the most part, I have confidence in modern carbon frames, but I take reputation and warranty very seriously.
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Old 11-25-22, 10:50 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
Ahhh, so that's why my 2007 Trek Pilot 5.0 has that steel ring.
Yeah, many bikes have add-ons to prevent chain-drops or protect the frame from chain-drops, like the "wolf tooth," the SRAM front derailleur chain-catcher, and the foil protector on the drive side chainstay of my Madone.
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Old 11-25-22, 11:21 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by oldbobcat
A simple impertinent question. What does it matter whether it was 2 years and 7 months or 3 years and 7 months, on a product that should have a service life of decades? It was a sample group of one. Knowledgeable people I spoke with said it wasn't uncommon. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a new Giant.
Take a pill dude. I was just curious how old the frame was when you noticed the problem.
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Old 11-26-22, 03:25 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by oldbobcat
And I told you, to the best of my knowledge, several posts ago. Now go away.
Wow, so defensive and hostile. Honestly, I did not question your issue but now, I am starting to think it was all BS...

Last edited by vespasianus; 11-26-22 at 03:35 AM.
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Old 11-26-22, 06:52 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by cxwrench
Back when I worked for Kodak/Sierra Nevada the Healthnet guys rode Giant TCX frames. Some of the guys definitely complained about their frames losing stiffness over the season. A guy I know that worked for Schwinn (I think) at the time took a new frame and an old frame to a facility that they had in CO and checked the frames on a rig they used. As the story goes the old frame was around 20% more flexible in certain areas compared to the new frame. These days I'd say that's not possible unless some major mistakes are made.
My 2014 Synapse Carbon has over 16K miles on it and feels just as stiff as it did when it was new.

My 2007 Trek Pilot 5.0 with only 6K miles on the other hand feels like a noodle.
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Old 11-26-22, 04:02 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
My 2007 Trek Pilot 5.0 with only 6K miles on the other hand feels like a noodle.
Pilots had a reputation for going noodly. Maybe they were made alongside Giant TCRs.of that perioid.
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Old 11-26-22, 04:07 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
My 2014 Synapse Carbon has over 16K miles on it and feels just as stiff as it did when it was new.

My 2007 Trek Pilot 5.0 with only 6K miles on the other hand feels like a noodle.
I'm not sure I understand your point?
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Old 11-26-22, 05:45 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by cxwrench
I'm not sure I understand your point?
Just confirming what you said in bold here:

Originally Posted by cxwrench
Back when I worked for Kodak/Sierra Nevada the Healthnet guys rode Giant TCX frames. Some of the guys definitely complained about their frames losing stiffness over the season. A guy I know that worked for Schwinn (I think) at the time took a new frame and an old frame to a facility that they had in CO and checked the frames on a rig they used. As the story goes the old frame was around 20% more flexible in certain areas compared to the new frame. These days I'd say that's not possible unless some major mistakes are made.
I take it you were implying that carbon is better quality these days which might explain why my 2014 Synapse Carbon at 16K miles is as stiff as it was new. At the time, I didn't connect the 2007 Pilot frame being flexy as something that happened with age and mileage.
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Old 11-26-22, 09:08 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
Just confirming what you said in bold here:



I take it you were implying that carbon is better quality these days which might explain why my 2014 Synapse Carbon at 16K miles is as stiff as it was new. At the time, I didn't connect the 2007 Pilot frame being flexy as something that happened with age and mileage.
Got it
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Old 12-03-22, 12:06 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by oldbobcat
Pilots had a reputation for going noodly. Maybe they were made alongside Giant TCRs.of that perioid.
Interesting. That was my first road bike and first carbon bike. It was a 2007 which I bought in Fall 2008. I test rode that one and an aluminum Trek road bike (forget which model) The Pilot 5.0 immediately felt more compliant and didn't have as much road buzz. I have a feeling they let some air out of the tires to make it feel smoother as I now know that frame material affects ride feel very little. Could be geometry was a little different as well which CAN affect ride feel. They took $600 off to sweeten the deal, so I got a $2400 bike for $1800. Knowing little at the time, I bit.
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Old 12-03-22, 03:52 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
The Pilot 5.0 immediately felt more compliant and didn't have as much road buzz. I have a feeling they let some air out of the tires to make it feel smoother as I now know that frame material affects ride feel very little. Could be geometry was a little different as well which CAN affect ride feel. They took $600 off to sweeten the deal, so I got a $2400 bike for $1800. Knowing little at the time, I bit.
There was nothing odd about the geometry of the Pilot, certainly when compared to the Specialized Roubaix. I started working for a Trek/Specialized dealer in 2008, and wrenching full-time around 2010. We saw very few Pilots coming in for tune-ups or warranty claims. Next to the hype around the Roubaix, it's easy to guess why they weren't a big seller. One regular member of our Saturday group ride had one. He eventually retired it for a Domane.

I totally skipped over the "buzzy aluminum" generation, migrating from steel directly to low mid-grade carbon. I was immediately impressed by the damping effect of carbon forks. A few years ago I rented some newer alloy bikes, a Giant Defy and a BMC Teammachine ALR. Neither were what I'd call buzzy, and I wouldn't have hesitated to make the BMC my main ride.

Last edited by oldbobcat; 12-03-22 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 12-05-22, 11:16 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Will CF frames outlast this thread?
Without a doubt. It’s interesting when road bikers are concerned about longevity when plenty of people have been riding and absolutely thrashing carbon mountain bikes which see more abuse in one year than a road bike will see in its lifetime. IMHO the whole argument is moot.
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Last edited by rsbob; 12-06-22 at 10:00 PM. Reason: Too much grief over mute instead of moot.
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Old 12-06-22, 07:35 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by oldbobcat
There was nothing odd about the geometry of the Pilot, certainly when compared to the Specialized Roubaix. I started working for a Trek/Specialized dealer in 2008, and wrenching full-time around 2010. We saw very few Pilots coming in for tune-ups or warranty claims. Next to the hype around the Roubaix, it's easy to guess why they weren't a big seller. One regular member of our Saturday group ride had one. He eventually retired it for a Domane.
The Pilot (eventually replaced by the Domaine), Roubaix and Synapse are all road bikes with a more upright geometry a.k.a. endurance bikes. These are the only types of road bikes I could ever ride as I have spinal issues that prevent me from being able to be comfortable on an aggressive "race bike". As you said, nothing odd about their geometry. I know a couple who each have a Pilot and they are still riding them, though they are more casual riders than I am. I immediately noticed a difference in lateral frame stiffness between my 2007 Pilot 5.0 and 2014 Synapse Carbon.
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Old 12-06-22, 07:56 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by rsbob
IMHO the whole argument is mute.
I would go even further and argue that the point is moot. Though I do wish that some of these posters would be mute.
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Old 12-06-22, 09:37 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
I immediately noticed a difference in lateral frame stiffness between my 2007 Pilot 5.0 and 2014 Synapse Carbon.
No surprise. Modern "endurance" bikes concede little or nothing to "race" bikes in terms of bottom bracket stiffness. In my experience they lose a little at the front end due to taller head tubes, but that's the sort of thing duffers like us can live with.
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Old 12-06-22, 11:05 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by oldbobcat
No surprise. Modern "endurance" bikes concede little or nothing to "race" bikes in terms of bottom bracket stiffness. In my experience they lose a little at the front end due to taller head tubes, but that's the sort of thing duffers like us can live with.
As I stated before, it's not BB stiffness I was talking about. I'm talking about the frame's lateral stiffness when you're on the bike and shake the handlebars while riding. This is a test of the overall stability in the frame which feels flexy on the Pilot.
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Old 12-06-22, 12:10 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
As I stated before, it's not BB stiffness I was talking about. I'm talking about the frame's lateral stiffness when you're on the bike and shake the handlebars while riding. This is a test of the overall stability in the frame which feels flexy on the Pilot.
And I was talking about the Synapse. You brought up both. But you're right to point out that lateral stiffness at the front end is just as important. That's why your Synapse has a tapered steerer.

By now the Pilot 5's shortcomings are well-known and practically moot to everyone except Trek's warranty department. How much fault lies in the design studio and how much at the factory in Taiwan is anyone's guess. Mine says it was a team effort.
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Old 12-06-22, 01:22 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by oldbobcat
And I was talking about the Synapse. You brought up both. But you're right to point out that lateral stiffness at the front end is just as important. That's why your Synapse has a tapered steerer.

By now the Pilot 5's shortcomings are well-known and practically moot to everyone except Trek's warranty department. How much fault lies in the design studio and how much at the factory in Taiwan is anyone's guess. Mine says it was a team effort.
Hmmm. I never thought of the Pilot 5's shortcomings as anything other than design. BTW, Pilots were made back in Wisconsin then, no? Taiwan didn't come into the scene until 2010. And say what you will about Taiwan, but their carbon technology is way ahead of ours.

I wasn't aware the tapered steerer improved front end stiffness.
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Old 12-06-22, 05:02 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
Hmmm. I never thought of the Pilot 5's shortcomings as anything other than design. BTW, Pilots were made back in Wisconsin then, no? Taiwan didn't come into the scene until 2010. And say what you will about Taiwan, but their carbon technology is way ahead of ours.

I wasn't aware the tapered steerer improved front end stiffness.
Why else would you make a 1.5" tapered steerer? The technology in Taiwan isn't necessarily 'way ahead' of ours, they just do what they're told. Some of their factories are newer but not really a technology thing.
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Old 12-06-22, 05:16 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by cxwrench
Why else would you make a 1.5" tapered steerer?
Excuse my ignorance, but I don't see the connection. That may be why I don't touch headsets.

Edit: I think I found the answer here:

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/t...s-to-the-fork/

So it's the larger bottom, but the taper is so standard 1 1/8" stems fit. Got it.

Last edited by Lombard; 12-06-22 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 12-07-22, 10:15 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
Hmmm. I never thought of the Pilot 5's shortcomings as anything other than design. BTW, Pilots were made back in Wisconsin then, no? Taiwan didn't come into the scene until 2010. And say what you will about Taiwan, but their carbon technology is way ahead of ours.
We're talking about a bike made in 2007. The rest of the world has moved on.
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Old 12-07-22, 11:28 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by oldbobcat
We're talking about a bike made in 2007. The rest of the world has moved on.
True dat.
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Old 12-08-22, 07:57 PM
  #125  
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I have heard that the resin can start to degrade or develop cracks at times, If true, that can start to make the bike feel strange. I have been on carbon bikes for a long time. My BMC is 8 years old going on 9 but feels great. I do have an opportunity to buy a Moots Ti Vamoots RCS at 30% off but still $8,300 and $8,900 OTD. So tempting to finally move on to Ti! Well, I have 7 bikes so I can't really move on to Ti completely but on the road, I can.
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