How can a $14,000 bicycle possibly be worth the money?
01-13-23, 01:29 PM
#102
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01-13-23, 01:30 PM
#103
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[QUOTE=Atlas Shrugged;22767778]I’m 64. Another 25 years if I really lucky.
I have 120 year old steel rifles that still work perfectly.
I have 120 year old steel rifles that still work perfectly.
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01-13-23, 01:31 PM
#104
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I know. A few days ago I was thinking about dropping $$$ on a new road bike off of the rack, but came away extremely disappointed with the way the industry has gone with extraneous features that only make the bike heavier and sluggish. Such as discs. So the superior Plan B is to build.
But for the first time in 2 years, the used bike market is coming back to its senses. In 2020/21, used bikes, particularly road bikes, were being sold for more than original retail. Or folks were attempting to sell them at these inflated prices. But, with Covid restrictions ending, and folks returning to what they really want to do (not biking), and the bike industry having built and ordered way too much stuff, used and new prices are dropping. They'll come back somewhat in the spring, but the upcoming recession should squash that.
So the sweet spot for road bikes is a 2015-2018 (UCI-level) team full carbon bike with rim brakes. No integrated cable routing. Not aero (heavy). This class of bike, which should be had for less than $2k, will be superior to a new $10k disc road bike in every respect, except losing braking in the wet.
BTW: when buying used, assume that the entire drivetrain is worn out. Factor that in your price negotiations. Best source for gear: sponsored riders.
But for the first time in 2 years, the used bike market is coming back to its senses. In 2020/21, used bikes, particularly road bikes, were being sold for more than original retail. Or folks were attempting to sell them at these inflated prices. But, with Covid restrictions ending, and folks returning to what they really want to do (not biking), and the bike industry having built and ordered way too much stuff, used and new prices are dropping. They'll come back somewhat in the spring, but the upcoming recession should squash that.
So the sweet spot for road bikes is a 2015-2018 (UCI-level) team full carbon bike with rim brakes. No integrated cable routing. Not aero (heavy). This class of bike, which should be had for less than $2k, will be superior to a new $10k disc road bike in every respect, except losing braking in the wet.
BTW: when buying used, assume that the entire drivetrain is worn out. Factor that in your price negotiations. Best source for gear: sponsored riders.
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01-13-23, 01:33 PM
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01-13-23, 01:36 PM
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01-13-23, 01:40 PM
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Thank you for an awesome thread! Over a hundred posts in a few hours are amazing, and you should be congratulated, it was a dull afternoon in the office, and you made it a little bit better.
Just a mild critique, no need to feed the thread as much; the best thing is if it starts dying off, throw in a nice incendiary comment to crank things up again.
Just a mild critique, no need to feed the thread as much; the best thing is if it starts dying off, throw in a nice incendiary comment to crank things up again.
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01-13-23, 01:41 PM
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It seems to me that he built a bicycle to suit his preferences for a good price.
It’s unfortunate you can’t explain your reasoning.
It’s unfortunate you can’t explain your reasoning.
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01-13-23, 01:43 PM
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I like how this thread pivoted from "$14k is outrageous I can buy a motorcycle for that price!!" to "steel is better" with some random comments about disc brakes sprinkled in for good measure.
It's like retrogrouch bingo.
What's the deal with internal cables and tubeless tires anyway!
It's like retrogrouch bingo.
What's the deal with internal cables and tubeless tires anyway!
01-13-23, 01:46 PM
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I like how this thread pivoted from "$14k is outrageous I can buy a motorcycle for that price!!" to "steel is better" with some random comments about disc brakes sprinkled in for good measure.
It's like retrogrouch bingo.
What's the deal with internal cables and tubeless tires anyway!
It's like retrogrouch bingo.
What's the deal with internal cables and tubeless tires anyway!
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1973 Schwinn Super Sport
1986 Schwinn Peloton
1976 Raleigh Super Course Mk II(for wife)
1983 Gitane Super Corsa
1991 Trek 750 Multitrack
1973 Schwinn Super Sport
1986 Schwinn Peloton
1976 Raleigh Super Course Mk II(for wife)
1983 Gitane Super Corsa
1991 Trek 750 Multitrack
01-13-23, 01:46 PM
#112
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The issue is expressing preferences as absolutes, as well as calling bikes that weigh 16 lbs and are verifiably faster for the same input wattage as "heavy and sluggish".
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01-13-23, 01:48 PM
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I find this kind of thread really frustrating. Everyone jumps on the OP with "Well, that's just what the market will bear". You are just repeating the OP's question and not answering it.
The OP has two questions:
1. WHY is the Specialized whatever worth $14k. A sample answer would be 'the Dura Ace by itself is already $5k', or 'An internally routed frame takes three times the man-hour to build than the externally routed frames', or 'Specialized is by far the largest sponsor in the pro tours, so you are subsidizing the Tour riders', or 'unlike the lower tiers, the top tier Tarmac is all handmade in the USA'. (I made all of these up)
2. WHY does the $14k motorcycle come with probably 100X the number of parts and amount of machining and probably 50X the amount of engineering as the Specialized bike? Keep in mind that these hyper sport motorcycles sell in similar quantities as the Specialized Tarmac. So the economy of scale doesn't explain it.
The OP has two questions:
1. WHY is the Specialized whatever worth $14k. A sample answer would be 'the Dura Ace by itself is already $5k', or 'An internally routed frame takes three times the man-hour to build than the externally routed frames', or 'Specialized is by far the largest sponsor in the pro tours, so you are subsidizing the Tour riders', or 'unlike the lower tiers, the top tier Tarmac is all handmade in the USA'. (I made all of these up)
2. WHY does the $14k motorcycle come with probably 100X the number of parts and amount of machining and probably 50X the amount of engineering as the Specialized bike? Keep in mind that these hyper sport motorcycles sell in similar quantities as the Specialized Tarmac. So the economy of scale doesn't explain it.
01-13-23, 01:51 PM
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01-13-23, 01:57 PM
#116
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I find this kind of thread really frustrating. Everyone jumps on the OP with "Well, that's just what the market will bear". You are just repeating the OP's question and not answering it.
The OP has two questions:
1. WHY is the Specialized whatever worth $14k. A sample answer would be 'the Dura Ace by itself is already $5k', or 'An internally routed frame takes three times the man-hour to build than the externally routed frames', or 'Specialized is by far the largest sponsor in the pro tours, so you are subsidizing the Tour riders', or 'unlike the lower tiers, the top tier Tarmac is all handmade in the USA'. (I made all of these up)
2. WHY does the $14k motorcycle come with probably 100X the number of parts and amount of machining and probably 50X the amount of engineering as the Specialized bike? Keep in mind that these hyper sport motorcycles sell in similar quantities as the Specialized Tarmac. So the economy of scale doesn't explain it.
The OP has two questions:
1. WHY is the Specialized whatever worth $14k. A sample answer would be 'the Dura Ace by itself is already $5k', or 'An internally routed frame takes three times the man-hour to build than the externally routed frames', or 'Specialized is by far the largest sponsor in the pro tours, so you are subsidizing the Tour riders', or 'unlike the lower tiers, the top tier Tarmac is all handmade in the USA'. (I made all of these up)
2. WHY does the $14k motorcycle come with probably 100X the number of parts and amount of machining and probably 50X the amount of engineering as the Specialized bike? Keep in mind that these hyper sport motorcycles sell in similar quantities as the Specialized Tarmac. So the economy of scale doesn't explain it.
One thing though, a $14,000 motorcycle is a popular price point. Overpriced limited production motorcycles can be $30,000-$60,000.
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1973 Schwinn Super Sport
1986 Schwinn Peloton
1976 Raleigh Super Course Mk II(for wife)
1983 Gitane Super Corsa
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1986 Schwinn Peloton
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1983 Gitane Super Corsa
1991 Trek 750 Multitrack
01-13-23, 01:58 PM
#117
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A timex does the same job as a Rolex.
That said, I like the newer bikes. I'd never spend 14k, but I have spent a fair amount. I use the cost as motivation. It would be much easier to let a cheap bike sit and collect dust. I try to recoup the costs by actually riding. I usually slip out most days for 1-1/2 hour rides to collect my thoughts after work. The overall health benefits also help defer some of the costs.
My old Cannonade is generally as fast as my new Madone. However, the Madone motivates me to work a little harder.
I'm new to the forum. Nice to meet everyone. Just figure I'd throw in my two cents.
Thanks
That said, I like the newer bikes. I'd never spend 14k, but I have spent a fair amount. I use the cost as motivation. It would be much easier to let a cheap bike sit and collect dust. I try to recoup the costs by actually riding. I usually slip out most days for 1-1/2 hour rides to collect my thoughts after work. The overall health benefits also help defer some of the costs.
My old Cannonade is generally as fast as my new Madone. However, the Madone motivates me to work a little harder.
I'm new to the forum. Nice to meet everyone. Just figure I'd throw in my two cents.
Thanks
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01-13-23, 02:06 PM
#118
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The value is what a willing buyer is willing to pay to a willing seller.
In the case of the $14,000 bike, it is worth that much because the seller is willing to sell it for that price and a buyer is willing to pay that price.
It's no different than anything else in the world - houses, cars, fishing gear, boats, skateboards, etc.
In the case of the $14,000 bike, it is worth that much because the seller is willing to sell it for that price and a buyer is willing to pay that price.
It's no different than anything else in the world - houses, cars, fishing gear, boats, skateboards, etc.
01-13-23, 02:14 PM
#119
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It has to do with more than just the one post. It started days ago in another thread. Even if I spent the time to try to explain it to you, I suspect you might not see it as the same absurd comedy that others do.
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01-13-23, 02:24 PM
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I find this kind of thread really frustrating. Everyone jumps on the OP with "Well, that's just what the market will bear". You are just repeating the OP's question and not answering it.
The OP has two questions:
1. WHY is the Specialized whatever worth $14k. A sample answer would be 'the Dura Ace by itself is already $5k', or 'An internally routed frame takes three times the man-hour to build than the externally routed frames', or 'Specialized is by far the largest sponsor in the pro tours, so you are subsidizing the Tour riders', or 'unlike the lower tiers, the top tier Tarmac is all handmade in the USA'. (I made all of these up)
2. WHY does the $14k motorcycle come with probably 100X the number of parts and amount of machining and probably 50X the amount of engineering as the Specialized bike? Keep in mind that these hyper sport motorcycles sell in similar quantities as the Specialized Tarmac. So the economy of scale doesn't explain it.
The OP has two questions:
1. WHY is the Specialized whatever worth $14k. A sample answer would be 'the Dura Ace by itself is already $5k', or 'An internally routed frame takes three times the man-hour to build than the externally routed frames', or 'Specialized is by far the largest sponsor in the pro tours, so you are subsidizing the Tour riders', or 'unlike the lower tiers, the top tier Tarmac is all handmade in the USA'. (I made all of these up)
2. WHY does the $14k motorcycle come with probably 100X the number of parts and amount of machining and probably 50X the amount of engineering as the Specialized bike? Keep in mind that these hyper sport motorcycles sell in similar quantities as the Specialized Tarmac. So the economy of scale doesn't explain it.
1. There is no right answer -- everyone puts a different worth on the things they buy or don't buy.
2. Based on how the OP worded his post, it's very unlikely he's even looking for an answer, i.e. it's just a troll post.
01-13-23, 02:33 PM
#121
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The reason people aren't answering the OP's question is twofold:
1. There is no right answer -- everyone puts a different worth on the things they buy or don't buy.
2. Based on how the OP worded his post, it's very unlikely he's even looking for an answer, i.e. it's just a troll post.
1. There is no right answer -- everyone puts a different worth on the things they buy or don't buy.
2. Based on how the OP worded his post, it's very unlikely he's even looking for an answer, i.e. it's just a troll post.
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01-13-23, 02:36 PM
#122
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[QUOTE=vonfilm;22767773]Will it though? superlight steel frames aren't exactly durable. Heavier frames sure, but when you start pushing wall thickness down to 0.5 - 0.4mm, the tubes are going to be pretty delicate. Doesn't take much of a ding to dent them.
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01-13-23, 02:55 PM
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if someone wants to spend $14000 or even $24000 on a bike I say more power to them. I love looking at expensive bikes, cars and mechanical things. I could walk into a bike shop and buy a $14000 bike but I would get my ass kicked when I got home and the people in the bike shop would laugh their asses off that a 64 year old beer swigging wannabe spent so much on a bike.....still would not blame anyone for wanting one if they have the means.
01-13-23, 03:05 PM
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It's also worth considering all of the changes that road bikes have seen over the last 20-120 years. There are a lot of custom/high end road bikes from 20 years ago that are still "usable" in the sense that they work, but they're limited in many ways compared to more modern bikes.
More to the point, none of this really has anything to do with a bike's "value". People aren't buying high-end race bikes because they think they'll last longer than cheaper bikes.
Last edited by msu2001la; 01-13-23 at 03:34 PM.
01-13-23, 03:14 PM
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I have no problem with people spending large amounts of money on recreation and hobbies.
I do tend to believe that products are only the sum of their parts. A $14,000 bicycle has very few parts. I could take one completely apart and put it back together in one day. Try that with a $14,000 motorcycle.
At least a Rolex watch will generally go up in value. A $14,000 bicycle will be worth a small fraction of its value in 10 years.
And No, I can’t take a Rolex apart and put it back together.
Most people in the car business will only buy used vehicles because they know how fast they lose their value.
I do tend to believe that products are only the sum of their parts. A $14,000 bicycle has very few parts. I could take one completely apart and put it back together in one day. Try that with a $14,000 motorcycle.
At least a Rolex watch will generally go up in value. A $14,000 bicycle will be worth a small fraction of its value in 10 years.
And No, I can’t take a Rolex apart and put it back together.
Most people in the car business will only buy used vehicles because they know how fast they lose their value.
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