prairiepedaler

A short article, but worth the few minutes to read. Depending on where you live, a cyclist might be allowed to take a whole lane but I never would unless no cars were behind. There are situations due to road construction for example, where you have to ride the road and there isn't much room for cars to pass with no shoulder for the cyclist to retreat onto. This situation becomes more difficult when the road itself is in terrible shape, you are carrying a heavy load, and are facing an incline into a headwind. In this climate, the roads take beating and the shoulder is often chewed up.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...hate-the-most/

Daniel4

1) Google "Traffic congestion" and you get a bunch of articles all about cars or pictures full of cars. So who's really hogging the road?

2) It's much easier and quicker to safely pass a cyclist than it is to pass a transport trailer or any other slower vehicle (than yours).

3) Of all the complaints that drivers have, cyclists are near the bottom of the list. All of the other complaints drivers have are about other drivers.

Here's a 2012 survey by Consumer Reports. It's American but I doubt road behaviour is very much different in other parts of the the world.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2...WantsFull=true

4) Too bad. Drivers should have been taught about these kind of things when obtaining their licences. Roads are full of obstacles. You're not so naive as to expect to drive in idealized conditions portayed in all those car commercials.

FBinNY 

This is a question of balancing your needs (or rights, or desires) vs those of your fellow road users.

I look on road cycling as I would eating at a table served family plan. When the meat platter is passed to you, you're free to take as much as you expect to eat, but good manners call for looking around the table and leaving enough for those still waiting.

Likewise, I'll take the lane to be more visible to traffic as it approaches from behind, then move over to create a better passing opportunity. On narrow roads, or where passing is unwise or difficult, I'll let the situation dictate. For a short stretch, I'll be a rolling obstruction for the few seconds involved, and expect drivers to understand (and tough luck if they don't). On a longer stretch, I'll track time and/or the number of cars in the train, and look for a place I can pull over and lay up if necessary to let them pass. There's no rule, it's always about the situation, and balancing my needs against the need to share.

This method has served me well for many 10s of thousands of miles since 1965, including dense cities, suburbs and rural riding, so I don't expect to change anytime soon.

79pmooney

+1 I also have been doing this a long time. Yes, in my racing days I was more militant and rarely actually pulled over for traffic, but I was also a lot faster than I am now.

One thing I do as well - when a road constriction is coming; loss of the shoulder or bike lane., a parked car with its potential door, poor pavement edge ... I immediately alter course (slightly) to make a straight line to the furthest to the left I need to get to so traffic behind can plan their pass or wait. I've had truck drivers thank me for not inviting them into either a very tight squeeze or trapping me but instead, making their ride easy. "So I've gotta wait for this cyclist. But no what-ifs, no excitement, no risk to my driving record."

Paul Barnard

Assuming narrow lanes, as the author mentioned, why does it matter where the cyclist is in the lane? A motorist cannot pass until there are no oncoming vehicles anyway.

holytrousers

Interestingly, the habit most hated by drivers is the one that guarantees cyclists' safety the most.

Paul Barnard

Not only is it the most hated, but it often doesn't affect them in any way at all. They just aren't smart enough to know that it doesn't affect them.

holytrousers

They think we slow them down, whereas average commute speeds by car range from 9mph to only 15mph in UK major cities

FBinNY 

Did you people read rge same article?

It wasn't about urban cycling, nor was it about taking the lane per se. It was about entitlement and a rights based worldview wherein cyclists take the lane on narrow country roads, AND FAIL TO CREATE PASSING OPPORTUNITIES because the laws imply they don't need to.

So, my advice is to feel free to exercise your rights, but temper that with the realization that you live in a community where others share limited resources with you.

Iride01 

I don't ride roads that are so busy with fast traffic that I have to be afraid of those behind me. Sure maybe one day a inattentive driver or a angry and frothing at the mouth driver will run me over. However that might just happen no matter where I am and certainly some cyclist have been hit while stopped on the side of the road taking pictures of the scenery or some other reason.

My biggest concern is to not let other cars behind me try to squeeze by in the same lane as I since none of the traffic lanes here are really wide enough to give me adequate and safe distance from the road's edge as well as the motor vehicle a safe distance from me. I had it happen once and almost got taken out by a trailer pulled behind the car that was way wider than the car itself when they tried to squeeze by me on a two lane road with oncoming traffic. Since that time I figure I don't stand any better chance on the far right edge of the road as I do anywhere else in my lane.

So particularly when I'm on a two lane road or highway, whenever there is a oncoming car ahead and a car behind me, I don't leave enough room for the car behind me to squeeze by. Once the oncoming cars ahead are gone or are far enough away for the car behind me to pass, then I'll move closer to the edge so the car behind me can feel more at ease passing.

prairiepedaler

I always ride with a mirror so I know what is behind. I'll duck into a bus stop alcove, driveway etc., and let traffic go by if there is a stack of cars which have no recourse to go around. I have sometimes received thumbs up from drivers for this. It really is about courtesy on the road, not law. If when static at a traffic light and some cyclist blows through, I'll usually look at the driver of the closest car and do a "no-no" index finger wave or thumbs down to indicate to them and other waiting drivers that I feel their pain regarding that sort of reckless behavior. This lets them know not all (very few in fact) cyclists approve of such driving and so don't paint me with the same brush.

Paul Barnard

Looking at the picture of the road in the article, what would you do to create an opportunity to pass?

Iride01 

Sounds as if you aren't pedaling in the prairies as your name suggests. You seem to be describing a more urban environment than I ride in. Though I live in a urban area I have a nearby MUP that affords me access to less crowded country roads. But even quite a few of our urban roads I will ride on a bike.

So I'll say your conditions and circumstances aren't my conditions and circumstances. There isn't just one correct answer that fits everyone or even all situations that I or you will encounter.

FBinNY 

Absolutely nothing, since there's plenty of room to pass at the moment. However, if there were steady, unbroken oncoming traffic, I'd move to plan B, either watching the buildup behind me and consider options.


FWIW having spent tears riding in NYC, I've no issue with close passes at moderate speed. So riding the fog line as the cars that slowed to my speed slide by is very acceptable.

Some people call this tactic "catch and release".

Paul Barnard

I don't hesitate to scoot over once they have dropped their speed either.

To me, this was the crux of the article:

‘Where a cyclist is encountered within a context that causes a driver to slow down or deviate, drivers’ estimation of the cyclist’s discourtesy was seen to increase, regardless of the cyclist’s actual behaviour,’ the study said.

Motorists are getting pissed pretty much just because cyclists appear to be discourteous.

FBinNY 

This is a problem of perceptions and psychology as much (or more) anything else.

In the UK especially, there's plenty of resentment about changes to the traffic codes, nor only related to bikes. So it's safe to assume some of that adds fuel to the cars v. bikes fires.

That said, I repeat my earlier statement that these issues arise from the sense of entitlement and focus on rights that's poisoning every aspect of modern (lack of) society.

Before cyclists grew in numbers and focused on rights, those few of us riding roads enjoyed a measure of detente with motorists. it wasn't quite entente but was workable, especially in the northeast where we had a long history of coping with each other.

Paul Barnard

I am entitled to use the road. At the same time I believe I have a duty to be cooperative.

‘Where a cyclist is encountered within a context that causes a driver to slow down or deviate, drivers’ estimation of the cyclist’s discourtesy was seen to increase, regardless of the cyclist’s actual behaviour,’ the study said.

A motorist is not entitled to drive through life without ever having to deviate or lift off the gas.

I'll happily accommodate motorists when I can, but I cannot give the motorists what they want if they expect to never have to go around me or brake.

We saw something interesting happen in South MS. When road cycling first started getting popular on the rural backroads, motorists were rude and inconsiderate at times. Over time, our riding group saw motorists get better. I suppose they sort of realized that having to slow or steer around us wasn't really all that big of a deal. Our group was very courteous on balance, so that may have had something to do with it.

livedarklions

Someone needs to prove that hostile driving has anything to do with "discorteous" riding. It's one of those things that people claim that I think is completely unsupported.
I think the article is just one more example of the "no wonder they hate us" genre. I can't speak to driving in England, but I drive on country roads a lot, and I cannot recall a single time I have been unreasonably detained by a cyclist. Talking to other drivers, you'd think it happens all the time, but they really can't come up with a lot of examples. I get detained by other drivers routinely, but cyclists around New England really aren't clogging up roads.

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FBinNY 

We all see the world from different perspectives. Like you, I also don't see much by way of hostility between cyclists and drivers, but we both live and ride in the Northeast, where we've been sharing the road for decades so drovers don't feel exclusive ownership of roads.

However, in many parts of the USA road cyclists are a relatively new phenomenon. Some of these areas also have cultures that equate "manliness" (for lack of a better word) with what you drive, preferably a pickup, even more preferably a raised one. So, not are only are cyclists nuisance intrusion on "our" roads, they're also undeserving of respect.

Culture and perceptions drive actions, so while things like coal rolling are rare in some areas, they're all too common in others. While, like you, I'm not totally convinced that cyclist behavior drives bias, I do believe that it can factor into a feedback loop, making already biased drivers more so.

Paul Barnard

Man, I could have written that myself. Right on the money from my seat. In conversations both IRL and online, I'll ask ranting motorists to describe the incident in which they were held up by a cyclist for the longest period of time. The overwhelming majority pass on the opportunity. Those that do give an example, normally give an asinine one. I have had a few people offer up examples of what sounded like bad bicyclist behavior. Even then the examples pale in comparison to the times I have been held up by bad drivers.

livedarklions

If I gave you the impression that hostility between drivers and cyclists was unusual where I live, it's absolutely not the case. Drivers in NH are more hostile to cyclists than anywhere else I've lived, it just doesn't seem to have any relationship to how people actually ride around here. I get honked at and close passed when I'm way over to the right in a breakdown lane, absolutely obstructing nothing whatsoever.

FBinNY 

I haven't ridden in NH for decades, but I put in plenty if miles there decades back. I don't remember issues beyond the occasional idiot. Of course that was mainly north of the major (?) cities, so that might account for it. Also, that was long before the era of kitted road warriors, so not many bikes on the road outside of tourist season.

But all that is beside the point. You're trying to apply logic to an emotional response. Some drivers simply hate sharing the road, others hate losing precious time, and others yet have no animus but simply don't know how to pass bicyclists.

I understand why drivers feel this way because I'm no different. I don't have issues with bicyclists because I can pass so easily, but slow or indecisive drivers boil my blood. Fortunately, I grew up in NYC, where our first life lessons are to build a wall between what we think or feel and what we say and do.

livedarklions

No, Iemotionalrying to apply logic to an emotional response, I am pushing back against the linkage of that response to the lane positioning habits of cyclists who aren't actually present at the scene of the hostile and dangerous emotional response.

You missed a series of threads on A&S in which various self-declared cyclists took pride at yelling from their cars at cyclists who had taken the lane that they were making cycling less safe by angering drivers. I think the OP veers dangerously close to that convoluted piece of "logic".

FBinNY 

While I don't have the patience to scroll back through this forum, but I remember (or think I do) posts here on BF referencing rights in a way implying that cyclists rights trump those of other road users.

I read the article as voicing concerns that the expansion of cyclist rights will embolden cyclists, and further polarize attitudes. Of course it depends on how it plays out.

FWIW, I'm always leery of rights arguments. I believe in the 3 Rs, meaning Rights, Responsibilities, and Repect. I believe that civil society requires a balance of all three, and cannot survive on any two without the third.

Hopefully, as cyclists fully embrace their rights they'll consider those of other road users too.

daihard 

If you are the driver of a slower car and fail to create an opportunity for the driver behind you to pass, the other driver will most likely blame you as a person. If you do the same on bike, they will blame you as a cyclist AND the whole cycling community. I hate out-group homogeneity.