What makes a handlebar bag friendly bike?
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What makes a handlebar bag friendly bike?
I've read people on this forum many times state that a particular bike or geometry is not suited to using a handle bar bag due to unwanted effects on the bikes handling. So what is good geometry for using a front bag? I'm after some real numbers as well as descriptions, angles, measurements etc. How can you tell from looking at the geometry listed on a bike or frame makers website?
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I recently got a Topeak TourGuide (the middle sized one) and it is a fairly large bag. Couple things I've noticed
1) could give you trouble with shifter cables coming out of brifters (if the cables are short).
2) your bars should be relatively wide (40cm plus) since it eliminates most of the space in-between the drops.
3) careful with the no-hands
Other than that, I think the only bikes it would give you trouble on would be bikes with a short wheelbase, due to the more sensitive cornering. However, the only way to tell is to try it.
I assume (since you posted this in the LD page) that you are looking for a touring/more relaxed road bike anyway, and all of those shouldn't pose an issue with a handlebar bag. I'm really enjoying mine, although it's overkill for under 50 miles. However, mine has a quick release, so that isn't an issue. On the long rides, it makes a suitable phone/wind-breaker/lunch/snack/camera/sunscreen/etc/etc/etc carrier, and it's right in front, for easy access.
On group rides I see plenty of the slightly smaller ones on road bikes.
1) could give you trouble with shifter cables coming out of brifters (if the cables are short).
2) your bars should be relatively wide (40cm plus) since it eliminates most of the space in-between the drops.
3) careful with the no-hands
Other than that, I think the only bikes it would give you trouble on would be bikes with a short wheelbase, due to the more sensitive cornering. However, the only way to tell is to try it.
I assume (since you posted this in the LD page) that you are looking for a touring/more relaxed road bike anyway, and all of those shouldn't pose an issue with a handlebar bag. I'm really enjoying mine, although it's overkill for under 50 miles. However, mine has a quick release, so that isn't an issue. On the long rides, it makes a suitable phone/wind-breaker/lunch/snack/camera/sunscreen/etc/etc/etc carrier, and it's right in front, for easy access.
On group rides I see plenty of the slightly smaller ones on road bikes.
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John, If your bike wasn't designed for a handlebar bag I suggest you be careful the first time you are out in a good wind. Especially if you have a load in that bag. You very well might find yourself on your head if you are not paying attention.
Partypack, are you building your own frame? I'd check some manufacturers web sites and see what geometry they are using in their bikes. You want to be looking for relaxed rake and trail measurements. Longer chainstays might be helpful as well.
Partypack, are you building your own frame? I'd check some manufacturers web sites and see what geometry they are using in their bikes. You want to be looking for relaxed rake and trail measurements. Longer chainstays might be helpful as well.
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If the bike is designed for it there isn't a problem with them. Some people put them on anything and it's kind of hit and miss whether you have problems or not. A lot of it depends on how much weight you put in it. A frame with lax geometry will give you the most success. There are some fairly light bikes with the geometry that you are looking for out there. You should be able to find something that will drop 10 lbs off of your current set-up pretty easily and still have a frame that will handle a handlebar bag with no ill-handling.
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John, If your bike wasn't designed for a handlebar bag I suggest you be careful the first time you are out in a good wind. Especially if you have a load in that bag. You very well might find yourself on your head if you are not paying attention.
Partypack, are you building your own frame? I'd check some manufacturers web sites and see what geometry they are using in their bikes. You want to be looking for relaxed rake and trail measurements. Longer chainstays might be helpful as well.
Partypack, are you building your own frame? I'd check some manufacturers web sites and see what geometry they are using in their bikes. You want to be looking for relaxed rake and trail measurements. Longer chainstays might be helpful as well.
Also, I've had it in 20mph+ headwinds the last metric, half century, and double metric I rode. I haven't been to lucky with the wind lately.
What problems would it cause on other bikes? Went to a group ride, and I'd say 65% of the people had at least a small HB bag, everything from old road bikes, to Jamis', Trek's, C'Dales. They didn't seem to have any issues.
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Instead of a handlebar bag, consider a trunk bag - one that fits on top of the rear rack? Heavy weight in a handlebar bag can create difficult steering; front, low-rider panniers tend to stabilize the steering. Go figure.
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It's a Schwinn Voyageur (long stays, relaxed geometry, long wheelbase), it's designed for bags all over, additionally, fully loaded (the bag that is) I'm not sure it would top over 6 lbs.
Also, I've had it in 20mph+ headwinds the last metric, half century, and double metric I rode. I haven't been to lucky with the wind lately.
What problems would it cause on other bikes? Went to a group ride, and I'd say 65% of the people had at least a small HB bag, everything from old road bikes, to Jamis', Trek's, C'Dales. They didn't seem to have any issues.
Also, I've had it in 20mph+ headwinds the last metric, half century, and double metric I rode. I haven't been to lucky with the wind lately.
What problems would it cause on other bikes? Went to a group ride, and I'd say 65% of the people had at least a small HB bag, everything from old road bikes, to Jamis', Trek's, C'Dales. They didn't seem to have any issues.
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your question is more or less answered in this previous thread. The randon thread linked by mattm and the summary provided by randochap are what you're looking for.
But, basically, the issue with handlebar bags is not an aero penalty in headwinds as many recent threads speculate, but in lateral handling. With a bag that is just secured by straps or posts attached to the handlebar, you are cantilevering a certain amount of weight right on your steering column, which creates shimmy and exaggerates all of your steering inputs. This will be an issue regardless of your frame geometry so long as you use a bag that is mounted to your handlebars.
The preferred approach for a front bag is to have a small rack that mounts low over your wheel and have this support the bag, which is then attached to a decaleur. This lowers the center of gravity for your load and improves stability. Having a fork with a long rake also helps, but at a possible cost of cornering and high speed manueverability.
But, basically, the issue with handlebar bags is not an aero penalty in headwinds as many recent threads speculate, but in lateral handling. With a bag that is just secured by straps or posts attached to the handlebar, you are cantilevering a certain amount of weight right on your steering column, which creates shimmy and exaggerates all of your steering inputs. This will be an issue regardless of your frame geometry so long as you use a bag that is mounted to your handlebars.
The preferred approach for a front bag is to have a small rack that mounts low over your wheel and have this support the bag, which is then attached to a decaleur. This lowers the center of gravity for your load and improves stability. Having a fork with a long rake also helps, but at a possible cost of cornering and high speed manueverability.
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if the intention is to hold items that a rider might need to have while riding (ie. food, map, electrolyte tablets, medication, camera, lip balm, etc.) then a trunk bag is not a worthwhile substitute and should not be considered.
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I have never had a problem either on comfort bikes or race geometry road bikes. Don't over analyze it, just pay attention.
Glenn
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I would hazard a guess, though, and say that such skills are not common, and the rest of us do have to 'over-analyze' our gear decisions because bar bags do affect handling, and do make it tricky to ride no-hands for a significant period of time, which then complicates such mundane tasks as, say, opening a Clif Bar packet.
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I've read people on this forum many times state that a particular bike or geometry is not suited to using a handle bar bag due to unwanted effects on the bikes handling. So what is good geometry for using a front bag? I'm after some real numbers as well as descriptions, angles, measurements etc. How can you tell from looking at the geometry listed on a bike or frame makers website?
None of my bikes are particularly optimized for a front load, but nonetheless I typically ride with a handlebar-mounted handlebar bag (Lone Peak Altra 100 with up to ten pounds of stuff), on distances up to a 1200K, and have never had "issues". Most bikes I ride have head angles around 72 to 73 degrees and a rake of 45mm to 50mm, sort of typical "sports touring" geometry (e.g. '84 Trek 400, Gunnar Sport, and Rivendell Rambouillet). I find that wider handlebars help with out-of-saddle climbing with a handlebar bag. My riding style probably does not push handling limits.
A handlebar bag is incomparably more useful than a saddlebag or trunk bag. It makes it much easier to maximize on-bike time, e.g. by grabbing food at a control, getting back on the bike right away, and then gradually eating it. Everything you need is right there at your hands.
Find someone who has a 100 percent return policy and buy a bag from them and try it out. The Lone Peak that I use can be bought from The Touring Store (https://www.thetouringstore.com/LONE%...ACK%20PAGE.htm). I like the mesh pockets on the side, which make it easy to keep a stash of food handy, and a place to put trash without it messing up your bag. The front pocket is big enough to put things that I need rarely but want close to hand, like wallet, phone, brevet card, inner tubes, repair kit and tools. There is a front "slash" pocket inside the main compartment that is a handy place to put the first-aid kit, lantiseptic, endurolytes, and camera. And the main compartment is plenty big enough to hold 400K worth of food plus miscellaneous clothing items (e.g. the cool weather stuff you take off as the day warms up, plus some light-duty raingear like helmet and shoe covers).
Nick
#14
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Read Bicycle Quarterly's review of the Kogswell P/R referenced above. They tested it with three different forks with different rakes and front loads. That article gives a lot of insight into how fork design impacts handling with a load on the front.
That said, I ride a bike not designed for a front load (Surly Cross Check) with a HB bag and it does fine. My VO Campagne bag can hold enough gear and food for a 600k. The steering gets heavier, but you get used to it pretty quickly. Riding no handed takes a little more attention too, but it can be done.
I also regulary haul 30 lb loads from the grocery store on this:
Definitely no hands free riding when this baby is loaded up...
That said, I ride a bike not designed for a front load (Surly Cross Check) with a HB bag and it does fine. My VO Campagne bag can hold enough gear and food for a 600k. The steering gets heavier, but you get used to it pretty quickly. Riding no handed takes a little more attention too, but it can be done.
I also regulary haul 30 lb loads from the grocery store on this:
Definitely no hands free riding when this baby is loaded up...
#15
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Oh hell, I use to ride a loaded paperboy bike no handed. Huge front basket, loaded side baskets. We just become pussified as we got older.
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John, If your bike wasn't designed for a handlebar bag I suggest you be careful the first time you are out in a good wind. Especially if you have a load in that bag. You very well might find yourself on your head if you are not paying attention.
Partypack, are you building your own frame? I'd check some manufacturers web sites and see what geometry they are using in their bikes. You want to be looking for relaxed rake and trail measurements. Longer chainstays might be helpful as well.
Partypack, are you building your own frame? I'd check some manufacturers web sites and see what geometry they are using in their bikes. You want to be looking for relaxed rake and trail measurements. Longer chainstays might be helpful as well.
Road Fan
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It's never only a headwind. Point is, I'll never be comfortable going hands-free for too long with the bag attached, but I still think the performance/handling impact is somewhat negligible based on the tendency to adapt quickly to the bikes change in handling.
I would say it took me about 6-10 miles before getting the confidence to maneuver the same as without the bag.
As GAtkins said
I would say it took me about 6-10 miles before getting the confidence to maneuver the same as without the bag.
As GAtkins said
Originally Posted by GAtkins
Don't over analyze it, just pay attention.
#18
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you get used to the quirks of your bike.
i added a heavy acorn boxy rando bag to my IF club racer on a mark's rack (with an edelux hanging off the stay) - was able to ride no-handed on some twisty descents above 30 mph no problem... and was able to cruise along @ 12 mph no handed as well. maneuvering @ 10 and below no handed was not an option... unless climbing a mild grade so that i could pedal with some force to keep the bike in balance.
the bike wasn't necessarily designed for a front bag - but its geometry is somewhere between race and touring. @ $400 for a new IF fork with different rake and trail... i opted to keep things where they were. survived the 200k, numerous long rides, and the fleche.
never noticed a crosswind or headwind issue - and we had them both for most of our fleche.
might be that with the weight on the rack it helps... but i was still putting that weight up front.
and - i rode my lemond zurich with an ortlieb bar bag plenty of miles. lightly packed with some food, camera, and a spare layer if worked fine.
hit and miss is a good description. i think it comes down to what you are used to - and how you adapt to small changes in feel.
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*sigh* I need a bike in between the 15.5 kg touring bike and the full-on crit bike. I like the look of the Salsa Casseroll and the Giant Defy. The rule is n+1 bikes isn't it
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I have a Trek 660 racing bike with an extremily short wheelbase, so short I have to deflate the tire in the rear before I can remove the rim then smash the tire against the seat tube to get it off. I use to do credit card touring as well as day trips and use a front bag with no effects whatsoever except for a little taken off of the aerodynamics.
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Used a Top Peak Compact handlebar bag on my Specialized Roubaix. It increased the stability or the steering and reduced the vibrations.
It is a size 52. I recall the head tube angle being 71.
It is a size 52. I recall the head tube angle being 71.