Mr. Spadoni 

Bought a bike a while back. It had been ridden hard but had some useable bits including a front wheel with a Mavic rim and Continental tire.
The wheel had been built with anodized aluminum nipples. I have always been warned away from aluminum nipples. I heeded those warnings as small aluminum fittings are potentially disastrous to a ham fisted mechanic like me.
The wheel was true and rode fine for about a year when I heard a tell tale ping. Thought I had broken a spoke. But no. The flange of the nipple had broken off. Threads were still good: what remained of the nipple came right off with a spoke wrench. Spoke looked fine.
so here’s the question: replace all of the nipples with some brass nipples, ride till others go, or do a full rebuild?

CliffordK

How far does the spoke protrude through the nipple?

Ideally the spokes should end flat with the end of the nipples... If slotted, many people extend the spoke through the slot to be flat with the end of the nipple.

steelbikeguy

I had a similar failure on the first wheel where I used aluminum nipples.
My mistake was to not select spokes long enough to reach the far end of the nipple where the flange was. Like your scenario, the flanged end broke off, presumable because none of the spoke tension was carried by the threads in the flange. All of it was carried in the thin barrel of the spoke, and that seemed to exceed its capabilities.
A brass spoke likely would have been fine.

This was on a front wheel. I've since built other front wheels with aluminum nipples, but selected long enough spokes to go all the way through the nipple. Haven't had one break yet (and hoping I didn't just jinx myself!)

Steve in Peoria

79pmooney

This. If the spokes do not run all the way through, it is only a matter of time before the head pops off. Brass nipples will go far longer than aluminum ones, but will do the same thing.

So, if the spokes run short, you can replace nipples and keep riding but consider this a wheel looking for a re-build with new, longer spokes. If the spokes are long enough, I'd just replace the nipples as they go until it starts happening too often and just keep some nipples and a spoke wrench in the tool bag. (And I'd use brass both to save money and because that is the long term solution. Get tired of them popping? Spend an evening at your leisure replacing the nipples and re-truing.)

Mr. Spadoni 

all are flush with end of nipple. Standard straight gauge 15s

clubman 

Thanks for the warning...I won't use them.
Re rebuild question. I'd roll the dice until one more breaks. Then it's time to re-lace.

Steel Charlie

I've been building wheels with DT alloy nipples since the early 80's for myself and many others. I have always used the proper length spoke and have never had a nipple fail. Never. Not one.

JMO of course - YMMV

CliffordK

Hmmm, so it sounds like the proper length of spoke.

It may be an issue that many aluminum nipples are designed to be backwards compatible with brass.

On the other hand, the big name companies (Shimano, Campagnolo, Mavic, etc) all use proprietary nipples.

My Shimano RS10 nipples are about twice as big as brass nipples in all dimensions.

Like @Steel Charlie, one thing I've chosen is that I'll only buy name brand components when building wheels. DT, Sapim, etc. It just isn't worth the headache of low quality components.

Mr. Spadoni 

Hmmmm. Nipples are multiple colors. Do the big suppliers do red and green?

clubman 

Also, it could be a simple lack of QC of a bad production batch.

Drillium Dude 

It happens to brass, too:



After pulling up the rim strip and checking the rest out I felt confident in leaving them in; the end of the failed one was crusty but none of the others looked anything like it. I thought that rather strange, but hey.

No issues since replacement.

DD

verktyg 

A year ago I bought this mint condition 1985-86 Bernard Hinault LOOK Reynolds 753 bike with a DuraAce gruppo.


Very low miles but when I tried to true the rims, many of the alloy nipples crumbled and broke apart from corrosion!!! There was no corrosion on the DT spokes or rims!

I replaced them all with plated brass DT nipples, problem solved!



How many GRAMS does a set of alloy nipples save? Doggie doodoo stuck to your cleat can weigh more!

Gimme a weight weenie break!

verktyg

Chombi1 

I never consider using aluminum nipples to build my bike wheels. I just think the little bit if weight savings is just not worth the possible problems with corrosion, seizing and galling that aluminum nipples might present, compared to very reliable and strong, brass nipples.

repechage

Just like self exploding Simplex front derailleur bodies popping apart with the bike hanging up and having Metric tubes!

I have had alloy nipples fail, fortunately with the bike hanging up.

wheel Fanatyk ( sp) ? Has an interesting alloy nipple that requires a special wrench and the head looks a bit beefier. Anodized.
I have not popped for a set but interesting.

steelbikeguy

I think I only have aluminum nipples on one bike that is my "weight weenie" bike. They are only on the front wheel, with 36 spokes, and using a Hi-E hub that I bought in the 70's. The bike never sees any rain, so the odds of corrosion are low.
OTOH, corrosion is just nature's version of thread-lock compound, so no worries about spokes getting loose!

For my bikes that see any serious use, I've stuck with brass nipples.

Steve in Peoria

ThermionicScott 

I wonder if the spokes being straight-gauge put more stress on the nipples each cycle...

79pmooney

I trust you know that the green nipples have to be on DS spokes (righthand or starboard side) and the red ones NDS (port). Otherwise you'll be playing with the minds of sailors.

CliffordK

Every milligram counts if you're wanting to make a sub-15 pound bike!!!

cyccommute 

Aluminum spoke nipples are no more prone to corrosion, seizing, or galling than brass. I’ve had to deal with plenty of brass spoke nipples that are all three. Brass is not inert to salt corrosion. Any spoke nipple benefits from a spoke prep compound and oiling while building. Oiling while tuning will help too.

Yep. Splined nipples. I’ve been building with them for about 5 years now. They are very nice and work very well. The spline makes the spoke wrench engagement much more positive...no more rounded off nipples. I don’t like square aluminum for that reason but I’m not much more of a fan of square brass, either. Aluminum does have the advantage of colors. You can do goofy stuff like this


But the red/blue/yellow/green matches the rest of the bike.



While at Wheel Fanatyk, get some Fix spoke prep which is the best spoke prep I’ve used. Their pin vise nipple loader is also really nice, too. I’ve also lusted after their dishing tool for about 20 years...even seen one in the flesh...but can’t quite justify the cost.

I have, by the way, had a lot of problems with Specialized OEM wheels with aluminum nipples but they break at the spoke because they are using spokes that are too short.

Chombi1 

Brass works so much better with most stainless steel grades as their anodic indexes are not that far apart, so the chances of corrosion and seizing is is minimal, plus brass has a natural lubricating effect, that's why plain bearings in engines have it. . While aluminum is so different from any type of steel that putting it against steel and introducing moisture surely results in corrosion = seizing. Add to that, the inherent softness of aluminum, = more possibility of galling, cracking and failure....
That's why the biggest wheel builders snd suppliers usually used brass nipples on the wheels they sell and supply bike companies with.

Mr. Spadoni 

The builder of this wheel was not nautically inclined. Red, green, black and silver were the colors chosen.. Now if only red and green are chosen, do you have to reverse the wheels when you head downstream?

gaucho777 

I missed this acquisition. Welcome to the club!

cyccommute 

There are some things you aren’t considering. First, no spoke/nipple should be assembled without spoke prep. The spoke prep serves as a insulator to prevent corrosion. This doesn’t always happen but aluminum spoke nipples are far more likely to be used in high end builds so more effort is up into preparation.

Second, aluminum nipples, especially colored ones, are anodized to make give them the color desired. The color is unimportant but the anodization is the oxidization of the aluminum to form an aluminum oxide layer. That is another layer of insulation.

Yes, aluminum is softer than brass but only just. On the Mohs hardness scale, aluminum has a harness of 2.5 to 3. Brass has a hardness of 3.

Finally, I’ve found far more frozen brass spoke nipples than aluminum. That’s mainly because the vast majority of spoke nipples are, and have been, brass. And, as I’ve said above, aluminum is used with generally used with more care and preparation than brass.

79pmooney

No, the colors are located relative to the vessel. So if you see green you are looking at the starboard (right) side of the ship whether it is going forward or backwards. If you see both, you know you are in front of it. (The running lights, red and green, only shine to the sides and forward, not back. Back is a white light.)

This gives a captain very good information about what he is seeing at night and can therefore calculate or observe whether they are on a collision course. They also indicate which ship has right of way and is to hold its course and which is to yield. Important stuff when the actions to avoid collision may have to be taken a mile in advance.

Bad Lag

Mount the wheel in a truing stand and remove the aluminum nipples one at a time. Replace each with a brass nipple and true before moving to the next.

Everything I know about aluminum, have experienced with aluminum and have seen of others who use aluminum says, use brass nipples. Personally, I would never even consider them.