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Tiorays Titanium

Old 07-13-21, 07:06 PM
  #51  
Maelochs
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
Maelochs, there's a way to get Chinese ti frames both of quality and support. Some of the better US ti frame builders have "stock" frames built in China to their design. Frames get sent to their shops, then inspected, sold and supported as if they built them. TiCycles does this with their Hyak frames. I am sure there are others.
The Supercommuter looks about right--I could build it for touring, gravel, gravel/touring .... a couple grand, though.

The days of any kind of high-value bargain bicycle seems to have passed.
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Old 07-14-21, 12:35 AM
  #52  
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Just trying to think through some issues that came up and tips for anyone that might want to try the same route as I did. First thing that comes to mind is if you are going to route cables internally, buy this $4 magnet tool. I learned a ton of things from Park Tools youtube videos and they have a similar tool but way overpriced. This tool saved me loads of time and I was able to route all cables with ease (once I figured out how to use it . Note it won't work with a steel frame.
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Old 07-14-21, 12:52 AM
  #53  
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tire clearance

I originally wanted clearance for 700x50 tires but in order to maintain room for 2 chain rings in the front, they recommended not going over 45mm in the back. Now that I have only 1 chain ring in the front I think I would have liked to go with the 50mm option but too late. I like the gearing so far with 44T in the front and 11-52T in the back. Still fast in the small gear and I can climb anything in that massive 52T. By the way if you want to order an SXR Pro rear derailleur, it fits the 52T without an extension. I was getting different opinions from different sellers on Aliexpress but it clearly works as is and my bike mechanic said there's no need for an extender. While I'm on the subject, the SRX Pro groupset is much better than I expected. The shifting isn't flawlessly smooth like my Shimano 105's but they are quite good. Only drawback so far is that the hoods are as hard as a rock so unless you have some nicely padded gloves, expect hand numbness. If the price of GRX levers ever come down in price I think I'll be getting some. Back to tire clearance, here are the schematics Tiorays sent me when we were discussing tire widths.




I bought MAXXIS Rambler gravel tires (also on Aliexpress) and have a 45mm tire in the back and 50mm in the front. The fork actually has room for a little more but 50mm is plenty. I don't even think there's anything available larger than that unless you go with a MTB 29" tire. Very comfortable 120 TPI tires and it's my first time going tubeless. I was considering one of these suspension seat posts but from the tires and the smooth ride quality of the TI frame and fork I don't think I need it. I don't have much gravel riding experience yet but so far so good. Instead of sticking to only the streets I'm now taking any rocky short cut I choose and hopping curbs with ease. It's quite satisfying!

Last edited by RobiEli; 07-14-21 at 01:20 AM.
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Old 07-14-21, 01:42 AM
  #54  
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A word of caution

A word of caution, I should have mentioned before, if you are new to building your own frame, please make sure you research thoroughly every aspect of the frame and fork before you place your order. Things like bottom bracket and headset types, thru axles types, threading pitches in every place of the bike where there are threads, angles and lengths of the tubing etc...... had my head spinning for weeks before I had a handle on everything....quite the learning curve. Tiorays (Tiris) is good at answering questions (whether it's direct English or the Aliexpress translator) but you should know exactly what you want beforehand. Also, their policy is (at the time I ordered in Jan), if you order a custom sized frame or custom graphics and you aren't happy with it, they won't give you a refund but if you order an already made size with no custom graphics then they'll take it back for a full refund. Makes perfect sense actually because they can resell to another customer.

Last edited by RobiEli; 07-14-21 at 08:11 AM.
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Old 07-19-21, 12:37 PM
  #55  
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that's a nice build, put a custom label on it, give it to some of the magazines to reviews, and watch the accolades pour in!
What's the cost of the overall build?
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Old 07-19-21, 11:20 PM
  #56  
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costs

aclinjury I'll tell you what I paid for everything not including customs taxes and shipping since that will change drastically depending on your location.
The frameset was free worldwide shipping at the time I ordered but I ended paying something like $9. The base cost for the frame was $799 and the fork $249. That's the cheapest they sell and then I added on a host of extra features like internal routing, thru axles, tapered fork, custom graphics ect....total for the frameset was $ 1,292.92.
Then I bought basically the cheapest components I could find with good reviews with the plan on upgrading anything I wasn't happy with either because of quality, performance, comfort, weight or appearance.
I guess I'll include tools also since that was included in the building process but not things I already owned like Park Tool bike grease and hex keys .
Viaron handle bar tape $8.71
Revival Zone Saddle $10.40 (not loving this saddle)
UNO bike stem $14.03
UNO seat post $18.64
UNO handle bars 440mm $19.33
Seatpost clamp $2.16
ZTTO headset 42mm 52mm $14.27
ZERAY ZP-108S MTB pedals $22.33 (work very well after some adjustments of the tension screws)
SENSAH SRX PRO groupset..this was a bundle package from the seller including Sensah R/L shifter, Sensah rear derailleur, ZRACE rear cassette 11-52T (a bit on the heavy side but I can climb up a wall in the 52T cog), ZRACE chain, ZRACE 44T chainring and crankset, ZRACE BSA bottom bracket for $207.40
ZRACE BR-002 cable actuated hydraulic disc brake calipers for $44.95. DO NOT ORDER THESE! They are horrible and I've already ordered some TEKTRO MD-C550 replacement calipers for $128. I got refunded for the ZRACE brakes without having to send them back.
ZTTO bottom bracket wrench $3.98
Cassette removing tool $2.15
Bottle cages $1.93
Chain master links (not really needed for this build but I take them on the road with me in case of a chain break which I've never had lol) $2.50
Chain breaker tool $2.99
Chain master link tool $2.79
Torque wrench $37.98
ZTTO Thru axles $6.75 each (I ordered two sets - first were the wrong size - sent them back and got a refund).
RISK Magnetic internal routing tools $3.46
Brake cables front and rear $2.38 and $2.68
Cable housings $1.50 per meter I think it was
50 cable housing end caps $1.11
Spacers for fork $1.60
Bottom bracket tool $10.12
MAXXIS Rambler 120 TPI tires 45mm and 50 mm $31.87 each (I have them set up tubeless and really like these tires so far)
Shimano center lock disc rotors 160mm $10 each
SPEED (company name I think) cycling shoes $40.02 - these are great shoes, no Velcro, easy to put on and take off, comfortable and look great. I'll have to see how they hold up after a long ride.

All of the above I ordered from Aliexpress

Ebay
50 cable end caps $1.32

Wheelset - Fulcrum Racing 7 DB Gravel Wheelset - 700c from Merlin Cycles. I don't remember what I paid offhand but the same wheelset is still there for $235.69 (currently out of stock but they were before and restocked). I'm happy with the Fulcrum wheels on my road bike and these are living up to my expectations, very happy with them so far.
Bought some tubeless fluid, valve cores and extra cable housing locally and then spent $120 or so at my local bike mechanic to fix all of my amateur mistakes. Total cost? I don't know, add it up lol. It came to approximately $2000 for the full build not including shipping costs and customs taxes which added about another $500. Of course everything is a little cheaper if you already own the tools required and don't have to pay a mechanic to help you out.

Last edited by RobiEli; 07-20-21 at 01:14 AM.
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Old 07-20-21, 06:16 PM
  #57  
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Great project, welds you show look nice, please post your results. When working in heavy industry I did vendor evaluation in the PRC for several years. If you need massive titanium pumps for your desalination plant you will be looking at the PRC where code welders are a fraction of what we pay here and you may not bother to have QA/QC engineers checking things out as they are AS9100 and NADCAP certified. If your ti RD hanger is made by BMG Ti who make bicycle parts/hangers as well as parts for Airbus, GE, etc., you are golden. The difficulty you appear to have managed is the expression "buyer beware" is in my opinion very much more prevalent in their culture than here.
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Old 12-14-21, 03:34 PM
  #58  
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Update?

Hey this is great info and thanks for sharing your experience. Beautiful Bike! I am considering purchasing a ti fork from Tiris, curious how your bike and fork are holding up. I like the old school curved blades like you have on your bike. How many miles have you put on your bike. Are the frame and fork holding up? Do you notice anything good and/or bad to mention about the fork in particular. Ti forks are not used that commonly as ti can be a bit flexy as a material - do you notice much flex out of the fork? Thanks for any info.
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Old 12-15-21, 12:41 AM
  #59  
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Unfortunately, I've only been able to ride it a handful of times since I finally put everything together. Miles wise I haven't done a lot but I did take it out on the MTB trails a few weeks ago and it was a blast to ride. I was able to ride pretty much any trail and much to my surprise it was comfortable and easy to control. Obviously, that has a lot to do with my 50mm front and 45mm rear tires but the TI does absorb the vibrations. It gives me the same feeling as my steel bike (also has a steel fork). I'm not sure how much flex is in the fork but it does absorb a lot of the bumps, looks great and I don't have to worry about it getting nicked up like I would with a carbon fork.

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Old 12-15-21, 01:19 AM
  #60  
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Just recalling a conversation I had with them when I was trying to measure the spacing to buy the correct thru axles lengths. They told me a certain size and I was measuring something different for the frame. Their response was "....because titanium has certain elasticity". I ordered the sizes they told me and they fit perfectly....so yeah I guess it does have flex. Is that a bad thing? We're talking 1-3 mm. Maybe that's a problem if you are racing and concerned it will eat up precious wattage but seems to me like it adds a lot of comfort, which is more important for the type of riding I do.

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Old 12-15-21, 02:27 AM
  #61  
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What's up with the cable routing of the rear derailleur?
And why is the handlebar tilted forward?
Can you use the drops like that?
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Old 12-16-21, 04:21 AM
  #62  
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I'm not a professional mechanic. This is my first experience with building a bike. I cut the cable housing in the rear a little short and had already gotten everything running smoothly (with much effort) and didn't want to take a chance redoing it at the expense of messing up the shifting. In the future if I order another frame I would ask them to place the internal cable routing exit on the top of the chainstay instead of the bottom like I have it now. It's approaching the rear derailleur from the wrong angle, bottom instead of top, (nothing a zip tie can't fix ). It wasn't something I knew to question when I ordered. As far as the bar angle, yeah it was a little low. I raised it, so now you can rest easy.
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Old 12-16-21, 10:46 PM
  #63  
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I just now stumbled across this thread, and want to say I’m quite impressed with what you’ve done here, RobiEli . Kudos!
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Old 12-17-21, 12:41 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by chaadster
I just now stumbled across this thread, and want to say I’m quite impressed with what you’ve done here, RobiEli . Kudos!
Thanks! chaadster Kudos back for such a nice message!

Last edited by RobiEli; 12-20-21 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 12-17-21, 04:51 AM
  #65  
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RobiEli, a worthwhile project that appears to have come out quite well. It does look like a fun bike to ride. If I was to purchase a bike in the near future, it would likely be similar to this. A 1X drive train does have it's appeal. I applaud you for the thread, and for the way you went through the whole process to get the bike you wanted.
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Old 12-17-21, 05:48 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by delbiker1
RobiEli, a worthwhile project that appears to have come out quite well. It does look like a fun bike to ride. If I was to purchase a bike in the near future, it would likely be similar to this. A 1X drive train does have it's appeal. I applaud you for the thread, and for the way you went through the whole process to get the bike you wanted.
Thanks!. delbiker1 It's not only fun to ride but was also very satisfying to build. I'm in need of replacing my commuter bike and have in mind to make another custom TI build and feel confident I can do it without as many hiccups as the first time around.

Last edited by RobiEli; 12-20-21 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 12-19-21, 07:31 PM
  #67  
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RobiEli: RE: your response to my question about flex in the fork, and the manufacturer's comment that ti has "a certain elasticity", it is well known that ti is not as stiff as, say, aluminum, or even carbon depending on the layup. That is not necessarily a bad thing. My opinion is that's perfectly ok, and part of the allure of ti. Ti frames and forks can be made more or less stiff depending on tube shaping, butting, and the diameter of the tubing. I have an old ti hardtail frame I have converted to a commuter/gravel/monstercross sort of bike (the one I just ordered a TIRIS ti fork for after your recommend to replace my old Surly steel fork), and it is most certainly not "stiff," but it IS incredibly comfortable and also seems relatively fast given what it is. The remarkable Jan Heine of Bicycle Quarterly and Rene Herse Cycles has a somewhat esoteric theory about frames with a bit of flex "Planing" and actually being faster AND more comfortable than an equivalent super stiff frame - google it can't post the link - and I swear that is the case with my ti frame.
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Old 12-20-21, 12:18 PM
  #68  
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Thanks for the thread, RobiEli

Congratulations for dismissing the naysayers and following through with a custom build from Tiorays/Tiris. It turned out great, imo.

I'm thinking of doing the same thing now. I think a custom titanium step-through 'gravel' bike with semi-modern parts may be in my future.

But it will need to be software-free, however. Not going there.
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Old 12-20-21, 12:36 PM
  #69  
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Thanks Fredo76 , I'd like to see your bike once you've finished the process if you decide to go through with it.
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Old 02-07-22, 09:42 PM
  #70  
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Thanks RobiEli . This was just the information I needed to get comfortable ordering one of the Tiris frames.
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Old 02-08-22, 12:57 AM
  #71  
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Enjoy your new bike! Also post pics when it's done.

Last edited by RobiEli; 02-08-22 at 01:54 AM.
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Old 02-08-22, 10:18 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
Pretty quiet out there from the Apostles of Titanium Craftsmen. The tales of highly skilled artisans working in dusty workshops countless hours with this mythical material creating magical machines is debunked. Great looking well made bike delivered as promised and custom for your requirements at a reasonable price. Good for you ignoring the usual crowd of Titanium worshippers here on BF espousing the expected, Seven, Lynskey, Merlin, Ti Fab and other mass welders of bikes.
I'm mot an apostle I just like to support American craftsmen when I can. Not sure if I did so by buying a 20 year old Ti frame of Ebay but I did. My worry about things over seas without known backing has been gone over. I usually buy local because I can drive on over and et taken care of. Probably hard to do with something bought from a newer company that you deal with solely on the internet.

I like what the OP has done. Looks good and if he doesn't have a problem in the first few months....probably never will.

And the magic of titanium as an element is most certainly not debunked. It has some amazing qualities which lie quite outside of bike building but contribute to its desirability as a frame material. It is a little more difficult to work with in some respects which also lay outside of its application as a frame material. These aspects also make it more challenging in some respects than other materials to shape, cut weld etc.
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Old 05-05-23, 02:23 AM
  #73  
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Thanks for posting this information. It is very helpful.
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Old 05-05-23, 03:24 AM
  #74  
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My pleasure, glad you found it helpful. If you are building a bike, post it here, so I can see!
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Old 05-05-23, 09:39 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by RobiEli
My pleasure, glad you found it helpful. If you are building a bike, post it here, so I can see!
after several months with your bike, what is your short term review synopsis? Interested in knowing how your bike is performing.
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