Classtime 

Having ridden consistently and maybe suffering regularly, for only a year or so, I'd say you have much more fitness to gain by riding your current bikes. But I get wanting a new bike. The fast guys that regularly scamper up 4-6 thousand feet on Saturdays and Sundays around here will tell you spinning is winning and they convinced me to put on a 28 to go with my 39. That helps tremendously on the third significant climb of the day. On the way to the climbs, your friends likely are going pretty fast and if you have many such friends, (Think Donut Ride) you should be shifting from the levers and not taking your hands off the bars to shift. 9 or more cogs in the back will let you find a good pedaling rhythm and you can sit in while you get prepared to get dropped again on the climb. My 2001 (or thereabouts) Lemond Maillot Jaune, steel, weighed just under 17 pounds: 9 speed Dura Ace with xtra light alloy bits and pieces. $2,000 DOLLARS WILL GET YOU A REALLY REALLY NICE BIKE. If you want a new race bike, keep saving.

Los Angeles CL! Holy Cow. Get that Fuso in OC: 1200 bucks. Spread the rear end put on some new 105.
Or that Merlin ready to go $2000 with 10 speed Dura Ace and Ultegra long cage.

I would not spend your money on a new bike.

HTupolev

Maybe. Depends on what the issues are (if anything specific) with your vintage bike, and how marginal your ability to keep up is. I ride my vintage steel in pacelines of largely the same composition as when I show up on my Emonda.

In terms of keeping up with a steady-ish paceline, the biggest benefit that modern tech has granted to road bikes over the last few decades is probably aero, and it's hard to make all that much headway in that regard if you're buying new within a $2000 budget.

What's relevant is its percentage in the total bike+rider system. For instance, if you weigh 180lbs and your bike weighs 20lbs, an additional 4 pounds will increase the gravitational drag on climbs by
(180 + 20 + 4)/(180 + 20) = 2 percent.
On a very steep hill where gravitational drag is a large majority of total resistance, this might cost you close to 2% in climbing speed, which could potentially be over a minute on a continually-uphill hour-long ascent.

That sounds like somewhat less of a vintage tech vs modern tech issue than a poor choice of rear derailleur and chainrings/freewheel. My '79 Fuji has the same 34-28 bottom gear as my Emonda, and while the cogs and chainrings are modern replacements, the gearing scheme (52-42-34 and 14-16-18-21-24-28) is pretty similar to the '70s original and would have been buildable at the time.
(And while it has less top-end than the Emonda's modern drivetrain, the ~100" gear is adequate for most of my road-riding contexts, and the scheme offers 1.5-stepping when I want tight shifts.)

This being said, switching to modern components or a modern bike is a very effective and convenient way to solve a limited gearing range.

​​​​​​Vintage brake hoods aren't really designed to be used as handrests in the way that modern hoods are. When fitting a bicycle, it can be better to approach them as grip nubs. My bikes with non-aero brake levers are set up so that my most-used hand position when cruising with arms outstretched is the drops, with the hoods being used mostly for getting aero with level forearms or for calm upright riding.

Is your Canyon heavily upgraded, and have you actually weighed it?

Currently the cheapest Canyon Endurance with a carbon frame is the 105-equipped CF SL Disc 7.0 at $2599, and Canyon themselves claim that it's an 18.5lb bike. With that being showroom weight, actual ready-to-ride weight (i.e. pedals, cages, toolkit) for most people is likely going to be closer to 20lbs.

According to Canyon's own marketing material, the cheapest variant in the 17lb realm is the CF SLX Disc 8.0 eTap at $5999. It's just about dead-on 17lbs, and that's once again showroom weight, so barring upgrades it'll be >17lbs in actual use.

LibertyFLS

I’m glad I posted this and appreciate all the feedback. I felt a certain appeal to an all road urban style, the roads here are pretty crap and I think those bikes look good. I also thought I wanted a new bike but I am fine with used. There is a 2016 Look 765 carbon frame with Ultegra on the pros closet that checks all the boxes for me and reading reviews it sounds like pretty much everything I want. Anyone have a discount code for them? 😝

Thanks again this was very helpful and informative! 🙏

rccardr 

Mine is several years old, was the introductory model when Canyon first came into the US market, and therefore might be somewhat nicer/lighter than current offerings.
Bone stock except for fit, pedals and tires. Pretty sure I weighed it when it arrived. Not surprised that new offerings are significantly more expensive.
Regardless, it's objectively obvious that it's several pounds lighter than any of my other bikes. Between that and the STI shifting, it's the weapon of choice for fast group rides.

BikingViking793 

I would suggest you find something used. I have a 2015 Felt z75 disc that I put most my miles on. It’s a $1500 bike that I got for $600. After you ride the used modern bike for a while you will have a much better idea what you want for that expensive new bike. Plus hopefully availability will be better by then. I wouldn’t go much over 20lbs for a modern bike.

RiddleOfSteel

@LibertyFLS I have run the gamut from fully vintage to fully modern and a mix of things in between, like many of us here. The roads around my city are crummy as well--I understand the struggle and understand the desire to rock some larger (but not mega heavy) rubber to float/fly over the crappy roads. I love the 23-25mm race bike stuff, but I just hung that up earlier this year after riding tires large enough to have me appreciate the difference.

Modern ergonomics, especially with shift/brake lever units, are FAR superior to vintage. It's just the evolution in thinking and in riding positions etc. Modern shifting, braking, wheels (minus well made Mavics et al), all of it, are much improved. I have put many a modern groupset onto a many a vintage frame, and have reaped the benefits of both.

Meanwhile, I have given intense look into all road / gravel bikes that can take 700 x 48mm rubber. Not that I am a gravelhead or anything, but running large supple tires at the same speeds as I was riding on my road/race frames was/is pretty mind blowing. Better gear range desired? Check. Bigger tires to take on crummy roads? Check. Not loony graphics or aesthetics? Check. I thought the Giant's graphics to be very nice and minimal (nothing else on the frame). Are your friends on road/race bikes? Or are they on larger tired bikes?

For everyone else playing at home, these big-tire all road disc frames are going to weigh more due to their tire clearances, disc brake setups, and modern standards/requirements for frame strength (all steel stuff gets a lot beefier now). 24 lbs for what is a modern-ish take on an old touring bike (but now with some attitude) is actually pretty par for the 1980's touring bike course. A 20 lb version of the same type of bike is even better. $2,000 for a race bike that's under 20 lbs is easy enough (Trek Emonda ALR - disc-only now I guess, adds a pound or so extra of weight).

The bikes I've been looking at have been the Niner RLT, Trek Checkpoint, and more recently the Jamis Renegade. All three come in CF and aluminum, with the Niner and Jamis available in steel. The Jamis designs are subdued and classy, to me, and overall Jamis presents a great value. Thankfully, all 3 bikes have geometry numbers that work for me.

Presently, I've taken to having modified my '85 Trek 620 tourer. Fits nominal 42mm tires and flies over the garbage roads. It is so nice to ride. I have what I would call "extended full road gearing" ("full road" being Seattle hill friendly enough at 53/39 and 11-28) with a 53/39 setup in front and a 11-32 setup in the rear. We have a bunch of 10-15% and up to 20% grades in local neighborhoods as well as outside of them, so vintage gearing is discarded. Anyway, I had the canti posts relocated to install TRP mini-Vs. Shifting is old school downtube (indexed) for now, but only a short while more. I have some brake/shifters en route that will not only get me my 'dream groupset', but will also drop more weight out of the bike (not that that is a main goal, just a fun sideshow). The bike as pictured is 22.9 lbs, which is a bit absurd for a heavier gauge steel touring bike. It represents the culmination of a lot of experience and experimentation and thought and I love riding it!

LibertyFLS

RiddleOfSteel thank you for taking the time to write out such a well thought and informative reply. This thread has definitely got me thinking in many different ways. Part of me is like maybe I build up an old bike but then I didn’t really wanna build a bike I just wanted to get something and get going. I randomly found in my searching on eBay a Marin Lombard which is super close to me and is well priced, so I asked if I could come look at it and I’m waiting to hear back. If that bike fits me and doesn’t feel super heavy I wouldn’t mind buying that and then just upgrading some things to get the weight down a little such as a carbon fork etc. There is a Giant Contend on OfferUp fairly close I would like to see it as well and I actually don’t mind the graphics on this one at all it’s a nice dove gray with white and red graphics. I definitely think one thing this thread has convinced me is that I am definitely going to buy something used. There is a used Kona *****tonk with an upgraded 105 Group-set that new-ish I would buy tomorrow but the guy posted it up two years ago so I’m sure it’s gone, I messaged anyway though fingers crossed.

I ordered some brakes for my 1973 Falcon to get rid of the Universal 68, a pair of nos Modolo levers and some used Modolo calipers. I had their brakes on my Trek 670 and felt that they worked great, were comfortable to hold, and they will still look period enough on the falcon. this will make riding the falcon a more enjoyable experience.

Whatever end up doing I will definitely update this thread

toffeeburns

Are your riding buddies faster because they’re stronger riders? If you were on their bike would you keep up?

How about getting a steel frame that you like and putting modern components on it for comfort and gear range and to make it lighter. That way you keep the steel is real vibe if that’s important to you. I reckon you could get away with $2k for a good set of used carbon wheels and SRAM Red or Dura Ace Group set and maybe a carbon fork.

Other options would be getting a good second hand carbon bike.

If you’re unsure between the Marin and the Giant then don’t drop $2k on it. You’re number 1 pick, State Bicycle Co., will eventually come back into stock if that’s the one you really want.

I get the idea of wanting something different on the road that looks cool but doesn’t weigh you down. Don’t rush into the decision, but if you really must decide between the Marin and Giant, pick the one that will make you take it out and enjoy riding it.

yukiinu

Steel more comfortable ride than aluminum.

squirtdad

Personally I like steel and think the combo of a nice steel high end frame and modern gear super nice.

I will have to admit to kinda fascinated at the cerevelo caledonia....which in 105 is $3200 and $3500 with ultegra..... https://www.cervelo.com/en_US/caledonia

if you are open to other than steel frames a good way (imho) to search craigslist is to use keyword ultegra or durace that will get you bikes that have higher end gear and bound to be nicer overall

have fun

LibertyFLS

Definitely open to other frame materials than steel.

Went and looked at a Marin Lombard the other day, very heavy and just felt big. Was a 2015 asking $700 but I passed. Glad to get a chance to see one though.

I almost pulled the trigger on a 2015 Look all carbon on the pros closet but I kept hesitating on clicking the buy button and now it’s sold dangit. They have a 2015 aluminum frame/carbon fork Cinelli I like (really like the Cinelli brand) but it’s a 1x11 Sram setup and would definitely need a wider range cassette but that’s easy enough. Not sure why they swapped out the original Campy components for the 1x11. It’s a few hundred cheaper than the Look was but I think the Look was a much better deal. Lastly there is a Giant Contend SL disc 2019 in a color way I really like and it looks brand new, but it’s got that weird Giant proprietary master cylinder I’m not sure about. On the other hand it has a full 105 group and I think I can get it for $1k so I am leaning towards this one.

hose

have mercy!

LibertyFLS

Just came across a Jamis, a brand I hadn't even considered, nice steel frame, with full carbon fork, 105 group, close to what it cost new 6 years ago, but overall really nice.
https://www.theproscloset.com/produc...-quest-elite-l

Very rad looking Cinelli Experience, just not sure about the 1x11 drivetrain and the immediate need to swap cassette so I get the better climbing gear range I'm after. Love the style of it though.
https://www.theproscloset.com/produc...39752086257856

Or this Giant Contend SL disc I'm going to look at tomorrow which I can get for about 1/2 of the bikes above because there will be no tax or shipping.
https://offerup.co/hMmJdI7Kqib

I'm currently leaning towards the Giant because 1; it looks brand new and it's only a 2 year old bike anyhow, and 2; it's local I can physically check it out prior to purchase. Haven't read anything great about the Giant Conduct mechanical to hydraulic master cylinder (Alien head looking thing on the stem) but I did watch a video review of someone who put 3k miles on this exact bike and said he never had any issue with it, other than being ugly.

Of these 3 any thoughts? The Jamis is really kind of awesome and it's a 9/10 on TPC in every category, but I don't know, the Jamis brand name doesn't do much for me. I wish the logo was more subdued....

RiddleOfSteel

I think the first thing to sort out is what you need from the bike and stick to that--you need a reference point to work from as you are considering everything from fast 1x road bikes to larger-tire gravel/adventure bikes (though you may be settling on just plain road bikes now?). You're in SoCal, so there should be plenty of bike shops with new bikes (in various categories) to at least test ride. Put the aesthetics to the side, component level to the side, and try and test out things in your general price range, from the bike categories you're entertaining. Maybe your preconceived notions and wants will be affirmed, or maybe what you thought you liked or wanted or needed is something pretty different/unexpected. Address the core of the issue, and things will fall into place from there. We can guess here all we want, looking at apples, staplers, and buckets for comparison, and get nowhere. Test ride test ride test ride!

LibertyFLS

This is true I do need to be clear with what I want. The Cinelli would’ve originally come with a 2 x 11 drive train in which case I would probably have bought it if it still had the original drive. Ultimately I want a road bike they can go fast and climb hills more easily and if I encounter a dirt trail would be fun to ride on that too although I’m not going to be looking for dirt trails. The roads here are rather poor which is part of why the urban/all road bike has an appeal to me. I think in reality I could get any of the three bikes I posted above and be happy with them.

I was about to go to a bike shop to look at the new version of the Giant (see first post) so that one was already on my radar and I actually prefer the paint job on the 2019. If the guy takes my offer tomorrow and the bike feels right and seems to fit right then I will bring it home

fwiw I have been looking all year and now I’m ready to pull the trigger.

Spaghetti Legs 

I think you’re setting yourself up for disappointment by new bike shopping with a $2k budget. The bikes you have in mind will be fine, they will function reliably, but if you’re really in to your bike riding, won’t cause any sparks. Like others I suggest a used but not abused CF frame, high end aluminum (Colnago Dream comes to mind) more modern but not necessarily boutique steel. Along those lines, with a budget of $2k, you can allot about 1/2 to a 105 10 or 11 speed group, decent Shimano factory wheelset or similar and have $1000 left for used frame shopping. Tons of options! Also, here, you will get steered (of course, and there’s nothing wrong with that) to vintage but think newer used like Ritchey Road Logic. I was just on my Breakaway Steel and it is a pretty snappy rider.

I bought this off eBay for $2k in 2016 or 17. Well, I upgraded the wheels but it came with a very nice set of Campy Zondas. Would you rather ride the Giant or this?

Classtime 

2 years from now, you will be much happier with a 7 year old top of the line road bike Like Spagetti Legs' than a 4 year old entry level madison avenue concoction. And I think we ride some of the same roads. There is no gravel riding around here other than Burma Road and a couple times a year you can do that on any bike. (The Giant looks bad ass though.)

tkamd73 

I’d go with the Giant on offer up, just for the look, you’re still a CV guy so that’s gotta count for something, love the green. whatever you choose, best of luck.
Tim

LibertyFLS

this is pure beauty! Found a Fairdale Goodship but it’s been up a month already and so far no response from the seller. Beautiful blue with similar graphic layout to your Colnago but I figure I probably missed that one.

RiddleOfSteel

My friend and fellow BF member @ctak has been filling my head with much knowledge of Specialized's S-Works Roubaix, particularly the SL3 and SL4 years. Why? Incredible focus on taming the destructive cobbles encountered during the Paris-Roubaix spring Classic while also being plenty fast/transferring your power. The magic of 10-12 year old top-end carbon. You can even fit large rubber (~30mm or so IIRC, but am fine being corrected). I would have to imagine a good bit of the magic trickled down to the lesser carbon Roubaix's, but this search in LA reveals many options to peruse. That may be your killer combo of comfort over the crummy stuff, but still plenty fast when you put some power down. Plenty of bike for you (or me) to 'grow' into.

metalrideroz

Where did you source those rims?

seypat

Extra hot!

seypat

I think they've been discontinued. I think Sun Ringle and Reynolds got bought and are under the same roof. Sun became wide/MTB only. My go to rim now is the Araya AR-713. Those might be hard to find as well. Here's a bike with the silver version. Araya also makes an old school looking hard anodized rim. Look at the TX-733 in their 700C section. I might get a set of those for the Prestige I listed up thread.

https://www.araya-usa.com/700crims/ar-713

mstateglfr 

Woah, aggressive.
I didnt know there was a right and wrong way to do any of this...especially considering the forum we are in.

mstateglfr 

$2000 doesnt get you nearly as much now as just 2 years ago, and it looks like you see that as Ive read your updates thru the thread.
- AllCity bikes have really neat paint and are good quality, but not $2000 new. You would have to find used.
- The Giant on offerup is a good option, but the biggest drawback is that proprietary brake system. It works, but is fugly.
- Ignore claims that you must have a 17# bike if going modern and if you dont, you are doing it wrong. Thats absurd. There are other benefits to modern- paint, fit, wider tires, etc.
- The Jamis on proscloset is a nice option. Not cheap, but a nice solid option. You definitely dont find bargains on proscloset.
- State bikes are a neat niche filler, but hardly something I would push for if I had $2k. The undefeated has a neat logo scheme, but mediocre components.

If you really want steel, then buy something from the late 80s or 90s and modernize it. You can put a full modern mechanical drivetrain and nice wheels on any frame from that time period. Tire width will be the limiting factor.
If you really want brand new, then buy something from Trek, Specialized, Giant, or Cannondale. Basically whatever is in a shop. A Trek Domane AL5 is right at $2000, has a quality hydraulic brake drivetrain, can take wide rubber, and will be fun from the start. Or a Cannondale Synapse. etc etc.
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...-disc/p/33086/
Consider Fuji too...https://www.ebay.com/itm/38431059281...IAAOSwvmphCbTc