Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Painting

Old 03-27-21, 04:36 AM
  #26  
paulb_in_bkln
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 660

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion, Riv Platypus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01
If you think you want to try your had at using a gravity feed gun or a cup sprayer, you can buy some pretty cheap ones at Harbor Freight. If they are still in the $8 or $9 dollar range like they use to be, then get several. They'll work great the first time. Then just throw them away after each coat. It'll save you the time and money the solvents you'll need to clean it properly.

Once you really get good at using a sprayer, then you might want to invest in a 200 to 500 dollar or more sprayer. But I just like the cheapo's and use them like a disposable paint brush.

Duplicolor Laquer was some of the easiest paint I have recently sprayed with excellent results. Almost if not as good and easy to spray as the old nitro-cellulose stuff we used to paint our cars with. I could sand it for the next coat within a half hour on nice days.
Even with the rattle cans it seemed to me that with practice an amateur could learn to do a very good, but probably not very durable, basic paint job. Masking around the edges of the lugs in order to get a contrasting color on the head tube is another thing that takes practice. And a very sharp xacto knife blade. Have you ever watched the video of the guy in the Bay Area who paints some of Rivendell's frames? Makes it look so easy.
paulb_in_bkln is offline  
Old 03-27-21, 10:35 AM
  #27  
Iride01 
I'm good to go!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,811

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6100 Post(s)
Liked 4,732 Times in 3,262 Posts
Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
Even with the rattle cans it seemed to me that with practice an amateur could learn to do a very good, but probably not very durable, basic paint job. Masking around the edges of the lugs in order to get a contrasting color on the head tube is another thing that takes practice. And a very sharp xacto knife blade. Have you ever watched the video of the guy in the Bay Area who paints some of Rivendell's frames? Makes it look so easy.
I totally agree that you can do a good paint job with rattle cans. However I've had plenty of the issue you brought up in the OP with rattle cans and none with paints using a HVLP cup or gravity spray gun. Paint cost quite a bit more as you have to buy larger quantity. So there is good and bad with either for those of us that don't paint often.

When my wife was changing the color of the ceiling fans and metal edge of the fireplace doors she had some of the same issue. So she switched to automotive touch up and engine paint in rattle cans from the auto parts store and didn't have that issue of wrinkling. But I'm not guarantying they work every time for anyone.

Last edited by Iride01; 03-27-21 at 10:40 AM.
Iride01 is offline  
Old 03-27-21, 11:03 AM
  #28  
acm
Senior Member
 
acm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 59

Bikes: '84 Centurion Pro Tour 15; '97 Cannondale M900

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 38 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
One thing I would avoid is a powder coat then clear rattle can over the PC. I have been told by a couple of PCers that non powder coat paint won't stay attached to the PC and will flake/delaminate off. The shop that I use for PC also has done wet sprays too. That's what I have had done for the last couple of frames I made. I applied decals and did a clear coat from a can after with no issues. I did make sure the wet sprays were enamels though. Andy
FWIW, I have done two frames with PC (including a PC clear coat) and then used rattle can clear coat to go over my sensitive water slide decals. I have not had any issues on either bike. I use duplicolor acrylic enamel spray can per Velocals recommendation.

I am not a chemist but since PC is basically just a polymer coating it's pretty non reactive and I don't think the solvents in most paints will do much harm.
acm is offline  
Old 03-27-21, 11:10 AM
  #29  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,664 Times in 2,497 Posts
There is a thread in the classic and vintage forum of powder coaters that people like. If you are rattlecanning the frame, I assume that powdercoat is in your price range, because a wet paint job will be considerably more.

You probably will have to ship the frame to get it wet painted.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 03-27-21, 03:39 PM
  #30  
paulb_in_bkln
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 660

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion, Riv Platypus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen
There is a thread in the classic and vintage forum of powder coaters that people like. If you are rattlecanning the frame, I assume that powdercoat is in your price range, because a wet paint job will be considerably more.

You probably will have to ship the frame to get it wet painted.
I haven't looked it up lately, but I've read there is a powder coating outfit in Brooklyn that routinely does bike frames. They don't sandblast, though. It's up to the customer to find someone to do that. But I have not yet given up on the rattle cans.
paulb_in_bkln is offline  
Old 03-27-21, 04:28 PM
  #31  
NorcalNewbee
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Paulb_in_bkln.....what brand and products were you using? Would be nice to know, so the rest of us can avoid those products and a similar fate.
NorcalNewbee is offline  
Old 03-28-21, 06:37 AM
  #32  
paulb_in_bkln
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 660

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion, Riv Platypus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by NorcalNewbee
Paulb_in_bkln.....what brand and products were you using? Would be nice to know, so the rest of us can avoid those products and a similar fate.
Krylon Colormaxx.
paulb_in_bkln is offline  
Old 03-28-21, 12:06 PM
  #33  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,932

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26251 Post(s)
Liked 10,232 Times in 7,101 Posts
Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
I haven't looked it up lately, but I've read there is a powder coating outfit in Brooklyn that routinely does bike frames. They don't sandblast, though. It's up to the customer to find someone to do that. But I have not yet given up on the rattle cans.

...I've had some stuff powdercoated here, and there's no way I'd pay someone to PC a bike frame unless they included frame prep as part of the job. To be successful, that plastic PC stuff they melt and bake on there requires absolutely spotless preparation of the metal surface. Even fingerprints post prep but pre spray can be a problem.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 03-28-21, 12:16 PM
  #34  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,932

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26251 Post(s)
Liked 10,232 Times in 7,101 Posts
Originally Posted by acm
FWIW, I have done two frames with PC (including a PC clear coat) and then used rattle can clear coat to go over my sensitive water slide decals. I have not had any issues on either bike. I use duplicolor acrylic enamel spray can per Velocals recommendation.

I am not a chemist but since PC is basically just a polymer coating it's pretty non reactive and I don't think the solvents in most paints will do much harm.
...it's not the paint solvents affecting the PC you need to worry about. It's the longer term adhesion of your paint to the very slippery and impervious powdercoated surface. I have painted over powdercoat once or twice. It seems to work fine if you thoroughly rough the surface, and then use a good quality self etching primer. You could probably rough it , then prime it with a 2 part urethane as well (but I've never tried this).

The issues with all painted surfaces that involve multiple coats are mostly about getting the subsequent coats of paint to adhere to whatever is already on there. AS long as whatever is already on there is still solidly attached to the surface. That's why there are things like "recommended recoat windows", that most paint manufacturers supply as part of their instructions for application. Youi can certainly violate those recommendations out of some necessity. I do it because I need to let the wet paint surface of the color coat dry enough that the application of decals/stickers won't lift or damage it.

But you do so at your own risk, and probably ought to experiment on something that's not as important to you when you do so.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 03-31-21, 10:15 AM
  #35  
paulb_in_bkln
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 660

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion, Riv Platypus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 17 Posts
I waited a week to let the enamel have additional time to cure, then applied a light spray of the clear coat with no damage. Whew. Was really holding my breath.
paulb_in_bkln is offline  
Likes For paulb_in_bkln:
Old 04-10-21, 07:58 AM
  #36  
paulb_in_bkln
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 660

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion, Riv Platypus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 17 Posts
FWIW, now that I'm finishing up this project, there are a couple things I've learned that might be worth mentioning. First is, if your work environment and equipment, and budget, allow the safe use of something more sophisticated than Krylon/Rustoleum/etc rattle can paints (and contributors here have mentioned some brands), use those. There's so much work in doing all the prep, and then, no matter how good a finish you achieve, the paint simply is not very durable. Second, as I am not applying decals, I wouldn't bother with the clear coat. It's not a very hard surface and it scuffs easily. Thank you everyone for your advice!
paulb_in_bkln is offline  
Old 04-10-21, 04:55 PM
  #37  
fishboat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,890

Bikes: Lemond '01 Maillot Jaune, Lemond '02 Victoire, Lemond '03 Poprad, Lemond '03 Wayzata DB conv(Poprad), '79 AcerMex Windsor Carrera Professional(pur new), '88 GT Tequesta(pur new), '01 Bianchi Grizzly, 1993 Trek 970 DB conv, Trek 8900 DB conv

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 752 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 799 Times in 467 Posts
Originally Posted by fishboat
Ouch.. I feel for you. I just finished 14-15 hours of prepping a frame (stripping paint to bare metal, steel) and will be facing a rattle can paint job once it warms up outside. I'll be using

Specialist Paints
https://usa.specialistpaints.com/col...m-aerosol-cans
or
Automotive Touchup
https://www.automotivetouchup.com/

paint, I think. They make systems that play well together. Other options are House of Kolor or Duplicolor.

Automotive grade rattle cans can be a bit pricier, but in the grand scheme of things..cost is minor. Invest in a chemical vapor mask too.

At this point, if I were you, I'd get some chemical stripper and start over, rather than investing time and money in salvage work. The paint should strip off very quickly(unlike the paint I just stripped off..it was a beast).
Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
FWIW, now that I'm finishing up this project, there are a couple things I've learned that might be worth mentioning. First is, if your work environment and equipment, and budget, allow the safe use of something more sophisticated than Krylon/Rustoleum/etc rattle can paints (and contributors here have mentioned some brands), use those. There's so much work in doing all the prep, and then, no matter how good a finish you achieve, the paint simply is not very durable. Second, as I am not applying decals, I wouldn't bother with the clear coat. It's not a very hard surface and it scuffs easily. Thank you everyone for your advice!
Thought I'd update..after yet more research, I think I'd avoid autmotivetouchup..based on reviews I've read. The KustomCanz is currently and has been out of primer and clearcoat..so I scratched them. House of Kolor rattle cans..sounds great, but I have found any user feedback, so I'm reluctant to dive in.

Fortunately I did some local legwork and found an auto-parts store that custom mixes rattle cans with PPG paints. They are a paint supplier for local body shops also. They carry a full compliment of 1K & 2K rattle can primers and clear-coats (around $10-$20/can) as well as have color swatches for about every car under the sun. A guy came in while I was there and they were able to help him with an aqua color from a 1950 Ford(?). And..the guy said that as long as you follow directions, all the materials play well together. At this point I'm leaning toward BMW San Marino Blue Metallic and a white pearl. Custom mixed colors run $25/12oz can. When I get the bike done I'll toss up a separate thread, and likely reference this one.

https://www.buyrightautoparts.com/auto-body-painting

Last edited by fishboat; 04-10-21 at 05:23 PM.
fishboat is offline  
Likes For fishboat:
Old 04-11-21, 06:21 AM
  #38  
paulb_in_bkln
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 660

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion, Riv Platypus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by fishboat
Thought I'd update..after yet more research, I think I'd avoid autmotivetouchup..based on reviews I've read. The KustomCanz is currently and has been out of primer and clearcoat..so I scratched them. House of Kolor rattle cans..sounds great, but I have found any user feedback, so I'm reluctant to dive in.
My bicycle painting days are over; this project was enough for me. But I know someone else will be able to use these leads to vendors of high quality paint. It's worth saying over and over: If you're planning to do a good job with a lot of careful prep, the hardware store brands aren't durable enough to make it worth all the time and hard work. (A quick and funky paint job, which is what many people need, might be another story.)
paulb_in_bkln is offline  
Old 04-11-21, 06:41 AM
  #39  
fishboat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,890

Bikes: Lemond '01 Maillot Jaune, Lemond '02 Victoire, Lemond '03 Poprad, Lemond '03 Wayzata DB conv(Poprad), '79 AcerMex Windsor Carrera Professional(pur new), '88 GT Tequesta(pur new), '01 Bianchi Grizzly, 1993 Trek 970 DB conv, Trek 8900 DB conv

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 752 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 799 Times in 467 Posts
Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
My bicycle painting days are over; this project was enough for me. But I know someone else will be able to use these leads to vendors of high quality paint. It's worth saying over and over: If you're planning to do a good job with a lot of careful prep, the hardware store brands aren't durable enough to make it worth all the time and hard work. (A quick and funky paint job, which is what many people need, might be another story.)
That's why I did the update..for anyone searching that lands here in the future. I did a ton of searching on BF on this topic and didn't find much with respect to higher-end rattle can painting. I did see a few references (House of Kolor), but no one that actually did the work. Using the custom color auto paint-rattle can pathway, a nice one color metallic paint job (sandable etching primer, color coat, 2K clear coat, probably 2 cans of each) can be done for about $125. Prep time is long..at least on my first experience. I stripped my frame/fork to bare metal..about 13 hrs of work so far. Obviously..I didn't use media blasting. I used chemical stripper, razor blades, steel wool, and sandpaper..I'll be looking for a shorter path on my next paint job (I have one more to do). Regardless of the pathway, prep time is plenty. It's worth it to me to invest in good paint. I hope it works..we'll see..
fishboat is offline  
Old 04-11-21, 12:27 PM
  #40  
paulb_in_bkln
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 660

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion, Riv Platypus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by fishboat
I stripped my frame/fork to bare metal..about 13 hrs of work so far. Obviously..I didn't use media blasting. I used chemical stripper, razor blades, steel wool, and sandpaper..I'll be looking for a shorter path on my next paint job (I have one more to do). Regardless of the pathway, prep time is plenty. It's worth it to me to invest in good paint. I hope it works..we'll see..
Since we're still on the subject, here's a couple of additional questions and observations from my own rattle-can adventure.
--The gloss Krylon I started with produced a shiny surface but not the mirror like "wet look" of professional jobs. Will the more sophisticated paints you are looking at produce that sort of finish, and if so, does that take any special skill or a very high-quality spray gun? I shifted to satin finish paints, and I was able to get a nice looking result that was more forgiving of my erratic skill.
--Commercial bicycle painters put the frames in an oven to cure. Obviously few if any amateurs have an oven for this purpose. Is it necessary? If it is, could you get the same result from a couple of infrared lamps?
--Masking lugs takes a brand new X-acto blade and a lot of patience and probably practice. I've been wondering if the flexible tape that scale model builders use might have helped me do a better job around the lugs.
--I wish I'd done a more complete job masking the dropouts. It's a very cool look when the clamp surfaces are perfectly clean and, like razor etched alongside the painted steel.

Meanwhile my temporary "paint booth" is disassembled, trashed, and I've cleaned up the mess and I'm so happy it's over!
paulb_in_bkln is offline  
Old 04-11-21, 03:13 PM
  #41  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,932

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26251 Post(s)
Liked 10,232 Times in 7,101 Posts
Originally Posted by fishboat
That's why I did the update..for anyone searching that lands here in the future. I did a ton of searching on BF on this topic and didn't find much with respect to higher-end rattle can painting. I did see a few references (House of Kolor), but no one that actually did the work. Using the custom color auto paint-rattle can pathway, a nice one color metallic paint job (sandable etching primer, color coat, 2K clear coat, probably 2 cans of each) can be done for about $125. Prep time is long..at least on my first experience. I stripped my frame/fork to bare metal..about 13 hrs of work so far. Obviously..I didn't use media blasting. I used chemical stripper, razor blades, steel wool, and sandpaper..I'll be looking for a shorter path on my next paint job (I have one more to do). Regardless of the pathway, prep time is plenty. It's worth it to me to invest in good paint. I hope it works..we'll see..
...one can of SprayMax 2K Clear Glamour will nicely cover one bicycle frame and fork. It's the one good reason for using the stuff, even if you have access to your own small spray rig. The epoxy 2 part paints are expensive to buy, even in the bulk liquid forms. Not as expensive s the SprayMax, but still not cheap. There are some added complexities with the clean up if you mix your own epoxy paints, and it's difficult not to waste some of the paint each time you do this.

So the disposable spray can just turns out to be a lot more convenient, if you are only doing one (possibly two) bicycles at a time.

Preparation of the surface is problematic, in a home workshop environment. There's no way around it, other than to invest in some kind of blast cabinet and high volume compressor. Or you can contract it out, depending on local resources. Not everyone strips every project to bare metal every time they paint something. If the stuff on there now is solidly attached, roughing the surface and making sure you have smoothed out the chips and dings is often all that is required for a reasonably goof final result..........but certainly stripping to bare metal is the one option that is guaranteed.

Color coat paints are often purchased from places like House of Kolor, or other automotive paint places, because of the availability of so many different colors. IME, those color coats are a very good product, run true over the years, and go on relatively opaque. But you can get pretty good results with almost any spray enamel, including the ones they sell in small cans in hobby shops, made by Testors. Those are interesting because of the wide range of transparent enamels they make and sell.....so they are handy for chromovelato and flamboyant effects, like those used historically.

Anyway, good luck. Like most areas of life, the more of this you do, the better you get at it.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 04-11-21, 03:26 PM
  #42  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,932

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26251 Post(s)
Liked 10,232 Times in 7,101 Posts
Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
Since we're still on the subject, here's a couple of additional questions and observations from my own rattle-can adventure.
--The gloss Krylon I started with produced a shiny surface but not the mirror like "wet look" of professional jobs. Will the more sophisticated paints you are looking at produce that sort of finish, and if so, does that take any special skill or a very high-quality spray gun? I shifted to satin finish paints, and I was able to get a nice looking result that was more forgiving of my erratic skill.
...that deep gloss shine on automotive paint jobs is (almost always) the result of a very thickly applied (just short of running) clear 2 part urethane top coat. Getting it on there as the final coat, so it is just heavy enough to flow and smooth out on the surface, is one of the skills an auto painter first acquires. The heat is usually just an aid in accelerating set up and curing time.


3alarmer is offline  
Likes For 3alarmer:
Old 04-11-21, 04:37 PM
  #43  
02Giant 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,977
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1638 Post(s)
Liked 741 Times in 495 Posts
Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
--Commercial bicycle painters put the frames in an oven to cure. Obviously few if any amateurs have an oven for this purpose. Is it necessary? If it is, could you get the same result from a couple of infrared lamps?
Ovens are typically used in high production shops, to rush the cure time. They are not necessary at all for DIY'ers.
__________________
nine mile skid on a ten mile ride
02Giant is offline  
Old 04-11-21, 08:24 PM
  #44  
fishboat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,890

Bikes: Lemond '01 Maillot Jaune, Lemond '02 Victoire, Lemond '03 Poprad, Lemond '03 Wayzata DB conv(Poprad), '79 AcerMex Windsor Carrera Professional(pur new), '88 GT Tequesta(pur new), '01 Bianchi Grizzly, 1993 Trek 970 DB conv, Trek 8900 DB conv

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 752 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 799 Times in 467 Posts
Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
Since we're still on the subject, here's a couple of additional questions and observations from my own rattle-can adventure.
--The gloss Krylon I started with produced a shiny surface but not the mirror like "wet look" of professional jobs. Will the more sophisticated paints you are looking at produce that sort of finish, and if so, does that take any special skill or a very high-quality spray gun? I shifted to satin finish paints, and I was able to get a nice looking result that was more forgiving of my erratic skill.
I haven't used them..yet..however they are designed to match an existing car finish, so I would expect the gloss should be quite good and very close to an auto finish. Everything I'm seeing on technique indicates multiple light coats. With the clear(and color), I think it's suppose to be 3-4 light coats. With a good quality spray gun I think you're still talking 3-4 coats, possibly more, though a spray gun would give you better control over the spray pattern, quantity you're spraying, and pressure.

--Commercial bicycle painters put the frames in an oven to cure. Obviously few if any amateurs have an oven for this purpose. Is it necessary? If it is, could you get the same result from a couple of infrared lamps?
Heat speeds the cure. I don't believe it's necessary. If memory serves(?), the reaction rate of this type of reaction doubles with each 10 degree increase in temp. If I were to guess..I'd think uneven heat application(spotlights vs a uniform temp oven) would be worse than no heat at all. The directions say you want to spray close to 70 degrees and low (<50%) humidity.

--Masking lugs takes a brand new X-acto blade and a lot of patience and probably practice. I've been wondering if the flexible tape that scale model builders use might have helped me do a better job around the lugs.
I believe the narrow (2-5 or 6mm) vinyl car-painters tape is preferred. It allows you to make curves in your line without buckling and the paint edge stays crisp. Google 3M auto painters tape..they have lots of info available on the curve radius you can achieve (thinner tape, tighter radius). Also check YouTube for paint flames on motorcycle gas tanks..you'll see how the stuff is used.
--I wish I'd done a more complete job masking the dropouts. It's a very cool look when the clamp surfaces are perfectly clean and, like razor etched alongside the painted steel.
An xacto knife and cutting tape is a touch thing as you can't cut into the paint. Only the tape.

Meanwhile my temporary "paint booth" is disassembled, trashed, and I've cleaned up the mess and I'm so happy it's over!
I'm waiting for the weather to get warm again. We had a number of good painting days in the last couple weeks, but I hadn't yet identified where I was going to get paint and the frame wasn't ready.

Last edited by fishboat; 04-12-21 at 04:33 AM.
fishboat is offline  
Old 04-11-21, 08:48 PM
  #45  
fishboat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,890

Bikes: Lemond '01 Maillot Jaune, Lemond '02 Victoire, Lemond '03 Poprad, Lemond '03 Wayzata DB conv(Poprad), '79 AcerMex Windsor Carrera Professional(pur new), '88 GT Tequesta(pur new), '01 Bianchi Grizzly, 1993 Trek 970 DB conv, Trek 8900 DB conv

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 752 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 799 Times in 467 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...one can of SprayMax 2K Clear Glamour will nicely cover one bicycle frame and fork. It's the one good reason for using the stuff, even if you have access to your own small spray rig. The epoxy 2 part paints are expensive to buy, even in the bulk liquid forms. Not as expensive s the SprayMax, but still not cheap. There are some added complexities with the clean up if you mix your own epoxy paints, and it's difficult not to waste some of the paint each time you do this.

So the disposable spray can just turns out to be a lot more convenient, if you are only doing one (possibly two) bicycles at a time.

Preparation of the surface is problematic, in a home workshop environment. There's no way around it, other than to invest in some kind of blast cabinet and high volume compressor. Or you can contract it out, depending on local resources. Not everyone strips every project to bare metal every time they paint something. If the stuff on there now is solidly attached, roughing the surface and making sure you have smoothed out the chips and dings is often all that is required for a reasonably goof final result..........but certainly stripping to bare metal is the one option that is guaranteed.

Color coat paints are often purchased from places like House of Kolor, or other automotive paint places, because of the availability of so many different colors. IME, those color coats are a very good product, run true over the years, and go on relatively opaque. But you can get pretty good results with almost any spray enamel, including the ones they sell in small cans in hobby shops, made by Testors. Those are interesting because of the wide range of transparent enamels they make and sell.....so they are handy for chromovelato and flamboyant effects, like those used historically.

Anyway, good luck. Like most areas of life, the more of this you do, the better you get at it.
Good info..thanks.
I've read that 2 cans of color is needed. In my case they'll be custom mixed so I mix them, I buy them. With respect to the primer and clearcoat..I'll buy two cans each and if I don't need the second can it'll be returned. Glad to hear one can can clearcoat might be enough.

I have a large compressor and a blasting setup. I didn't want to use the carbide grit on the frame. I see that glass and walnut shells are a possibility. Walnut shells are pricey. The glass appears to be cheap and available. I didn't use it as I started with the chemical stripper(added MEK to it)..did very little other than b-a-r-e-l-y softening the paint enough to scrape it off with a razor blade. Once I got started..I just kept at it. On the next bike I'm going to check if the chem strip works as one would hope..if not, then I'll clean up the existing paint, smooth it out by sanding, prime it and paint.

I like the House of Kolor candy paints, but I've found zero info on using their rattle cans or people that have used rattle can versions along with results. All I can find out is that they exist. The local PPG supplier will be ok for my first go at this.
fishboat is offline  
Old 04-12-21, 01:47 AM
  #46  
Bill in VA
Senior Member
 
Bill in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 727

Bikes: Current: 2016 Bianchi Volpe; 1973 Peugeot UO-8. Past: 1974 Fuji S-10-S with custom black Imron paint by Stinsman Racing of PA.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 215 Post(s)
Liked 204 Times in 142 Posts
Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
Since we're still on the subject, here's a couple of additional questions and observations from my own rattle-can adventure.
--The gloss Krylon I started with produced a shiny surface but not the mirror like "wet look" of professional jobs. Will the more sophisticated paints you are looking at produce that sort of finish, and if so, does that take any special skill or a very high-quality spray gun? I shifted to satin finish paints, and I was able to get a nice looking result that was more forgiving of my erratic skill.
--Commercial bicycle painters put the frames in an oven to cure. Obviously few if any amateurs have an oven for this purpose. Is it necessary? If it is, could you get the same result from a couple of infrared lamps?
--Masking lugs takes a brand new X-acto blade and a lot of patience and probably practice. I've been wondering if the flexible tape that scale model builders use might have helped me do a better job around the lugs.
--I wish I'd done a more complete job masking the dropouts. It's a very cool look when the clamp surfaces are perfectly clean and, like razor etched alongside the painted steel.

Meanwhile my temporary "paint booth" is disassembled, trashed, and I've cleaned up the mess and I'm so happy it's over!
Modelers will use a masking solution that can be painted on with artists real camel hair (IMPORTANT!!!) brushes. THe camel hair flows the liquid way better than any other except for sable. Both are artist specialty store items and worth it, as they do not streak or leave lines. It is used to cover the clear plastic on model airplane canopies, or other areas, so you can airbrush the canopy (or windshield) frame color to match the body. I think it would be great to use to mask lugs and or small details like a tubing decal that is no longer available, but it comes in 1 oz. small bottles and is not cheap. To remove it you use the tip of an x-acto knife to raise a corner and then a tweezers to pull it off.
Bill in VA is offline  
Old 04-12-21, 07:44 AM
  #47  
paulb_in_bkln
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 660

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion, Riv Platypus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 17 Posts
IMO anyone wanting to paint a bike frame and do a nice job will find a lot of useful information in this thread.
paulb_in_bkln is offline  
Old 04-13-21, 06:23 AM
  #48  
paulb_in_bkln
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 660

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion, Riv Platypus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 17 Posts
A couple of videos that show better-than-competent bike painters at work. For me they were motivational, if not especially helpful.



I have just now noticed that Stefani from D&D uses the scale modelers painting tape around the more gentle curves of the head tube lugs (it's the narrow blue tape).

Last edited by paulb_in_bkln; 04-13-21 at 06:30 AM.
paulb_in_bkln is offline  
Old 04-13-21, 11:37 AM
  #49  
kylecycler
Senior Member
 
kylecycler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: South Ayrshire, Scotland
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Tamiya modelers masking tape is available in 3mm, 2mm and 1mm widths - the narrower it is, the tighter it bends. Car/motorcycle painters' masking tape is usually 5mm, which I think is the blue tape Rick Stefani is using in the D&D Cycles video. Not sure but I think the ultra-thin Tamiya tape has just recently become available - I watch scale modelling videos on YouTube just for the workmanship and I'm sure it was previewed in one of them (like a lot of folk, I suspect, I've got a stash of scale models that have been on my to-do list for decades but (as with cycling up until ten years ago) I've never gone back to it since I was a teenager!).


https://www.tamiyausa.com/search/?q=masking+tape

Don't know if it's overkill - the 5mm tape might curve tightly enough, but the thinner tape should even cope with Nervex lugs, huh?
kylecycler is offline  
Old 04-14-21, 03:47 AM
  #50  
paulb_in_bkln
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 660

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion, Riv Platypus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 17 Posts
The Tamiya tape is not expensive and I would use it if I were going at the head tube again. (Which I am not!) With very ornate lugs maybe the masking fluid? Or just get damn good with a blade and painting tape! Practice practice practice!

Last edited by paulb_in_bkln; 04-14-21 at 03:51 AM.
paulb_in_bkln is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.