GameHasNoName

Hi, Happy Holidays!

I'm building my first fixed gear bicycle for street fun and "fitness" riding and have couple of questions about the components to build with. It would be great if you could help me to choose.

Thanks in advance!

1. Cranks. I'm planning to get Miche Primato Advanved with compatible Miche bottom bracket (Miche Team BSA68 or Miche Primato Pista). I'm not sure if I can feel the difference between this cranks and, let's say, aventon push or popular chinese cranks (skeace or similar). I understand that good quality chainrings contribute to how drivetrain feels, but unsure if I will be able to tell the difference between the named cranks, because I've not ridden any of them. What do you think? Any recommendations about the cranks and bottom brackets? I've read good things about andels crankset, but it's not easy to get them for a reasonable price in my land.
2. Pedal system. I'm used to SPD, but still not sure if the cleats are setup properly, so as experiment I'm thinking of getting the diagonal pedal straps. Do you guys have experience using pedal straps along with SPD or what do you think about diagonal straps in general? I'm planning to use them for fun (and "fitness") rides not more than 100km (typically, 30-50km) in a city with traffic (and without). I understand that I may loose some performance benefits by switching to straps, but I think it will be easier to adjust foot position and I hope my shoe's soles will be stiff enough to not "bother" me while pedaling (is that possible?) I mean, if there is a footwear with stiff soles that is not cycling related or should I stick with cycling shoes for straps too (bearing in mind that walking aspect of non-cycling shoes is not important for me)?
3. Wheels. I'm thinking of getting "DT Swiss T 1800 Classic 32", because it seems that custom wheelset will cost me nearly the same amount of money not to mention the "hassle" to get all required parts and interact with a wheel builder. But my questions are: a) are they any good and b) how are they comparable to custom wheelset, let's say novatec hubs, H+plus son archetypes / dt swiss 460 rims, cx-rays/dt swiss aerolite spokes. If none of this options would be available to me, my trump card is csc chinese carbon clinchers, which I highly doubt in, but if you have any experience with them (or similar wheels) it would be great if you let me know.

Happy Holidays!

Regards

TejanoTrackie 

1. Miche Primato cranks are good quality, so no need to change to something else.

2. Clipless pedals like SPD are much better than straps, especially when riding fixed, so I would not change that either.

3. The DT Swiss T 1800 Classic 32 wheelset is also good quality, so again no need to change.

Russ Roth

1. In general you won't feel a lot of difference between different cranksets, with enough power some can flex more than others but usually the wheels and frame will have more flex when pedaling hard. Where cranks matter is in their roundness, especially chainrings. Chainrings and cranks that are less precise will force you to put less tension on the chain. Personally I would not buy a cheap, chinese crankset. I've had bottom brackets fail while sprinting and it was dangerous, having the crank arm snap would be worse, much rather have something reliable. Not certain where you're at, I ordered a stronglight crankset from xxcycle in France, shipping wasn't bad and the crank is pretty and sugino is another popular brand to look at.

2.Would never do pedal and strap anywhere other than the track and I'm not certain what you're really thinking of here. Some track riders will have a strap that holds their feet while clipped into the pedal. These guys are usually monsters and can tear their cleat out, they also sometimes need help getting unclipped, not something for the street. Having dual sided cleat one side and strap on the other is just asking to catch the strap on something when clipped in. I use spd on my actual track bike and know plenty of others as well though we're in the minority. Some are far faster than me and their cleats hold find. Personally I like the ease of dual sided spd with a fixie.

3. Nice wheelset, for street and fun I wouldn't bother. First I wouldn't get anything that doesn't have a front brake track, I've done the whole fixie commuter with no brake for an entire summer in Albany; the bike moves fast, drivers are stupid and maneuvering is much harder when you can't coast. You should have a front brake to help bail you out otherwise your fastest stop is a bunny hop into a skid and tires get expensive. Being for street, unless you plan to take it to the track I'd settle for something like Velocity's a23 wheelset, 32h with a lighter rim and brake track.

GameHasNoName

Thanks for all the replies, it seems I would be able to get stronglight crankset too!

By getting straps over spd I was thinking if it would be an option for my kind of riding without the need of adjusting the cleats, but you've convinced me otherwise

But what do you think about SPD-SL (road specific) vs SPD (shimano dual-sided mountain bike specific) for my kind of riding (fun and "fitness" typically 30-50 km and up to 100km rides) keeping in mind that I don't actually plan to walk much. Should I get one or another, like if one of this system is more beneficial specifically for fixed gear riding.

IAmSam

Seems like you have a grasp on what you are doing and you have a fine selection of parts there - depending on what suits your frameset, and of course availability in our current supply-challenged bike world. As you are building a I seriously doubt any loss of would even be noticeable under such circumstances, so to me it is just a matter of your preference. Over my riding years I have used most common kinds of pedals and even now still sporadically switch around to fit my...mood(?)

As your discussion has turned to which kind of clipless - before the usual 2-sided MTB pedals for phiksies crowd overwhelms the place as they typically do when this subject comes up I just want state for the record that my experience has taught me that road clipless pedals, even though I use something other than Shimanos like you mentioned, are absolutely the way to go on the...road and I would gladly expound on the reason if anybody cares to hear it...

Good luck - have fun - post pics

GameHasNoName

Thanks for the reply, yes, please, share your experience/thoughts about road clipless system you are using.

79pmooney

Fixie forever here. My thoughts - you want any crank that won't break, is as round as you can afford, that has the proper chainline (and maybe a Q-factor your knees like). The right crank length. (My knees insist on 175 so I make it a point of riding fix gears with healthily high BBs.) After that, cranks don't matter. (Well, maybe if they are spaghetti stiff or you are a monster.) Go 1/8" chain for all parts, chain, chainring and cog.

Pedals - the faster you might go, the more important retention is. Do you have hills? Do you like to climb? If you answer yes, you will be going down them. Going responsibly slow gets to be a drag. With practice, you may find you can go very close to freewheel speeds. (It's a blast.) And with very simple math, you can see that your RPMs get very high. Now consider what happens if your foot ever comes off the pedal. That pedal, spinning at over 200 RPM and driven be a gear reduction and all your (and the bike's) weight may strike you in the heel or Achilles. Cold steel, driven by a sledge hammer.

I do all my fix gear riding on old fashioned toeclips, straps and almost always, traditional slotted cleats. (My feel need no-float so I lose nothing there.) But the big reason is that my foot always stays on the pedal, even if I un-cleat. I find that at 200+ RPM I have no idea how straight I am keeping my foot. I've un-cleated with slotted cleats a few times with RPMs up around 225. With toeclips. No big deal, I just swallow my heart back down, touch the brakes and slide my foot and cleat back in.

And yes, clipping in is a drag. So is falling over when I forget to loosen the straps. But that one 45 mph unclip is an event I never want to see in this lifetime.

You had a third question but I have to run. I'll come back later.

Unca_Sam

I'm curious which frame you're planning to build on; could you share that information?

79pmooney touched on an important point in BB clearance: if you're building on a frame with conventional road geometry, you'll want to avoid pedal strikes when turning. That could mean narrow pedal bodies, shorter crank arm length, or both.

When you're riding in traffic, you should have at least a front brake. Drivers are not 100% predictable and mistakes happen, so stopping insurance is wise. The good news is that front wheels aren't drivetrain specific, the bad news is that if you want a matching wheelset, you'll want a wheelset with brake tracks. I'll say that building a custom wheelset yourself isn't that hard, but it's not that much cheaper either.

GameHasNoName

thanks for reply, sure, it's aventon mataro latest generation frameset (old stock) with track specific geometry with 55mm bb drop:
I'm planning to get at maximum 165mm crankset (or 160, if those are available) and hoping it will work fine in terms of pedal strike with SPD or SPD-SL pedals, but I think I will still hit front wheel with my shoes in slow turns because of my 43EU shimano cycling shoes that fits me well (and I typically use 42 for non-cycling shoes). Unsure, if I can do anything about it. What do you think?

I agree, but currently don't see many options to choose from. Dt-swiss wheelset seems good to me, it has all what I think is good (~18mm rim inner width for running 23-25mm tires, non-proprietary hubs and spokes plus it's pre-built), except the brake track (which I overlooked). I was thinking of building wheelset by myself, but if there are similar quality and price wheelset is available I would prefer the latter. The other approach, I think would work, I can just avoid most of the public roads and cycle in a "bicycle specific" areas and also not riding in rush hours.

TejanoTrackie 

You can still use brakes with wheels that lack a machined braking surface, as long as they are relatively flat. You will wear off the finish and labels, but the brakes will still work.

GameHasNoName

thanks for the reply, but don't the brakes just destroy the rim much faster in that manner or do you suggesting using front brakes only in emergency situations to minimize rim damage?

TejanoTrackie 

In my experience, the rims don't wear out any faster, because the rim surface material is the same. You just destroy the finish, which is a purely cosmetic issue. Yes, I only use the front brake for hard or emergency purposes, to control speed on a steep or long descent or having to stop suddenly for a car, dog, traffic light etc. I don't use a rear brake on my fixed gear bikes, but I would if I didn't have good foot retention.

GameHasNoName

thanks, that helps!

Unca_Sam

I tend not to worry about toe overlap. I wear 44-45 shoes for cycling and it's only a concern on my road bikes at extreme low speed (basically stopped). As far as pedal strikes go, clipless pedals tend to be as narrow as you can get before the meaningful variable is your foot; the SPD system has the benefit of being recessed so you can walk more easily.

The biggest thing I didn't think of when setting up my fixed gear was that your speed is all about cadence. When riding with traffic, I can adjust my gearing to stay within my aerobic ability on a derailleur bike while maintaining the pace of traffic. The only thing you can do is pedal faster on a fixed gear, and you have to keep it up unless you want to get bucked off of the saddle. So I'm mostly slower when riding mine.

ThermionicScott 

My concern with that DT Swiss wheelset wouldn't be that it lacks machined brake surfaces, but that the sidewalls might not have any spare material for braking wear, being designed for just "track" use: https://www.dtswiss.com/en/wheels/wh...t-1800-classic

That said, I have an Iwanson caliper and suspect that many "track" or "disc" rims could be used with rim brakes for a short time at least. There, I've negated any responsibility I brought to this discussion.

GameHasNoName

thanks, good point, I'm expecting to ride in more steady pace than on a bike with gears, then if it's slower that would be fine by me

TejanoTrackie 

Spoken like a true licensed PE.

GameHasNoName

may be you are referring to mavic ellipses that seems to have that machined brake surface? Not sure if miche pistards have machined brake surface either. I've read mixed opinions on this wheelsets and those has proprietary spokes that bothers me the most and in case of ellipses - it's for the same price as dt swiss (in my point of view by buying ellipses instead of dt-swiss I'm will pay for brake track mostly and I will not get much value by doing this, so custom build may be benefitial)

TejanoTrackie 

Now that I think about this a bit more, it occurs to me that in the case of clincher rims, the thickness of the rim at the top where the brake pads will make contact will be determined by the ability of the rim to resist the bending stresses that occur as the result of the tire pressure pushing outwards against the rim at the top. So, although I don't have any specific knowledge about this design issue, I would guess that clincher rims intended for use with rim brakes are no thicker at the top open section of the rim than those intended for disk brakes or no brakes at all. This would not apply to tubular tire rims, which are closed section, and do not have to resist the tire pressure, which is resisted by the tire itself.

ThermionicScott 

They need to resist that stress at the wear limit (generally considered to be about 0.7mm thick), so they'll have material in excess of that when new, usually about twice as much. I have some weight-weenie clincher rims in the basement with sidewalls only about 1.1mm thick, so my expectations for their lifespan are modest!

TejanoTrackie 

Interesting. I've never worn out any rims, including some that have literally tens of thousands of miles on them. But then again, I'm rarely riding in a situation where I'm constantly having to use the brakes, or use them heavily. And when it comes to riding fixed, I hardly use the front brake at all, so the wear is much less. Also, when it comes to track rims, I would think they'd need to be designed for higher pressures, which would require a thicker rim.

JohnDThompson 

No. Machined brake tracks are to make braking action smooth. Sometimes it is done to remove a hard anodized layer that can inhibit brake performance. The machining removes material from the sidewalls, so a machined brake track is arguably less durable than a non-machined brake track.

N.B. machined brake tracks are a relatively recent fashion. Until the 90s virtually no rims came with machined brake tracks.

GameHasNoName

thanks for the reply, interesting, I thought brake track is a different material and somehow "bonded" to the rim

79pmooney

That third point - wheels. My suggestion is to keep it simple, especially for your first go-round. Do your fix gear learning on wheels that don't matter. Later you can up them to something with more flash. Learning experiences happen. Not all are kind to wheels. Plus jumping potholes, etc. is a lot harder when you cannot coast. Not impossible but for most, requires an advanced degree. HS diplomas don't cut it. (In 45 years, I've jumped a couple of things.)

The wheels I ride have Mavic Open Pro (on my good fix gears) and Open Sport rims on my city bike. I like light spokes so I go 1.8-1.5 DT or Wheelsmith. Hubs: any decent front hub. I use Miche Pista rears, both one-sided and two. I do use nice tires on my good fix gears, Vittoria Corsa G+ and the like.

No great magic here. None of these items are "must haves" But these wheels work quite well. I don't have to worry about them.

Brakes - I am a big fan of good, regular road brakes front and rear. The road is no different. Nor are the dogs, children, other riders ... And uphill - fix gears are much harder Good hand holds when standing climbing are a huge plus. And guess what - those brake hoods are just the ticket!

I know that track bikes are considered by many to be the ticket for fix gear on the road. Not me. I want good road bikes. Yes, a higher BB. Yes horizontal (or near horizontal) dropouts but I am not a fan of track ends. Road dropouts make for faster wheel changes and a much easier life with fenders.

GameHasNoName

Thanks for the replies, as far as I understand you are running traditional slotted cleats with either toeclips or straps? Is it two different systems combined together (like straps or toeclips are "added" to clipless pedals) or traditional slotted cleats are designed to run with straps or toeclips? I'm not any close to your RPMs, but I'm asking if I can use similar approach to find my optimal cleats position. If I recall correctly, I was told by experienced person on this forum, that in the past it was possible to find one's optimal cleats position using clipless pedals with toeclips (not fully fixed cleats are supposed to "place" marks the shoe's sole over time), but I can be mistaken here, please, correct me if I'm wrong.