J.Higgins 

Off topic, definitely, but every time I see a pic of someone riding one of these type of bikes, they are ALWAYS wearing a big grin.

RH Clark

Works great until you break something getting off.

ofajen

I’m no expert, but it looks like it would be harder to mount and dismount than a high wheeled “ordinary” bicycle from the 1800s.

Otto

urbanknight

I've seen people getting on and off these things. They use walls, benches, planters, etc. But yeah, better hope you don't have to come to an unexpected stop for anything without a wall or pole nearby!

50PlusCycling

"Discomfort" is not the same as "pain." Pain usually follows if something is not done to address discomfort. So long as the saddle adjusted within the ballpark (knee slightly bent at the 6 o'clock position, underside of knee cap vertically in-line pedal axle at 10:30 position), injury is unlikely. But bodies vary in motion and geometry, and what works for one person may not work at all for another, and one can only find the best overall position via trial-and-error.

Ramshackle

I keep the seat low then raise it up a little at a time until the pain in my patella subsides. The lower the seat the more power I seem to be able to put down.

PeteHski

I'm struggling to visualise a 10:30 position, LOL

MoAlpha

livedarklions

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean in the context of knees. I don't think there's anything I'd describe as "discomfort" of a knee that wouldn't involve pain, and certainly nothing localized enough to discern front from rear.

I'm not sure I understand the 10:30 angle, but agree that knee slightly bent at bottom of stroke is a reasonable ballpark where harm is unlikely.

SpedFast

Hard to do with a digital clock, huh?

SkinGriz

He will never worry about pedal strike or toe overlap.

genejockey 

Low bridges, OTOH.....

genejockey 

I have to raise my saddle on my C&V bikes with 170s, compared to my more modern bikes with 175s. If I don't, I feel like I'm pedaling 'flat footed', for want of a better descriptor. Too high, and I feel like I'm reaching at the bottom of the stroke. One morning I set out on one of the bikes with 170s where the saddle was set a little low, but I had a problem within the first two miles, so I headed back and grabbed a bike with 175s that was just a bit too high. Boy, did THAT transition feel strange!

The latter bike is the one I have on my trainer, and without the distractions of riding on the road, I noticed my left leg was 'snapping through' the bottom of the stroke. I lowered my saddle 3mm and that helped a lot. BUT, at no point had I ever had any pain in either knee on that bike, even on big climbing days, so using knee pain to determine the boundaries is probably not useful. Obviously if you DO have knee pain, adjust your saddle accordingly, but don't move the saddle till it hurts then back off, because there's plenty of suboptimal between the pain boundaries.

RH Clark

Basically you need to be as high as you can be without extending your knee completely on the down stroke.

jfouellette

I don t agree this is true all the time. In urban environments, you need to quickly be able put your feet toes on the ground such as red lights, stop signs etc. Getting off on the saddle is not always practicle and safe.

RH Clark

I would only agree with you if you had trouble getting off your seat because of physical inability.

livedarklions

Maybe I'm missing something because I ride platforms exclusively, but since getting off the saddle is just a matter of standing as you hit the brakes, when is that not practical or safe? I do this extremely quickly routinely at stop signs and lights, something I learned riding almost exclusively in urban environments growing up. I also find this "hopping off" actually stops the bike faster than trying to drag the feet from a sitting position.

livedarklions

I think that describes it really nicely--I'd say it's more a matter of the pedal stroke feeling "awkward" or "too short" rather than "discomfort" in the knee. Like I said before, I don't know what "discomfort" in a joint is supposed to mean if it isn't pain. Swelling, maybe, but that's even worse. It's repetitive stress that's causing the sign, so if this is the sign someone is using, they've likely injured themselves, at least mildly.

Also, as people are suggesting, it's quite possible you'd notice hip pain before you noticed things going wrong with your knee. Joint pain is hard to get rid of once you get it, so better to know what to look for in a pedal stroke within normal limits than to try something out until it causes problems. Totally agreeing with your post, just to be clear.

70sSanO

I would think that a significant piece of this is based on fear of having to make quick evasive moves and sudden stops and not being able to get your foot down.

I think most of the people here have been in a situation where it was necessary to abruptly come to a stop. I have found as livedarklions has stated that the quicker you stop the bike the faster you move off the saddle. It does become second nature.

About 10 years ago crank forward bikes became popular because they moved the saddle back to the point where there was proper leg extension and the rider was able to place their foot flat on the ground at rest. The downside of this design was removing too much weight from the front wheel which cause extremely poor steering.

A work-around I have done, for someone who wanted the seat lower, was getting a frame that is too small and then use an extreme setback seatpost and a little longer stem to get “close” to correct leg extension and not push all the weight off the front wheel. It is possible to barely touch the ground and then lean the bike at a stop.

John

63rickert

So you frequently and normally use Flintstone brakes?

As you know I have been riding a very long time. Until the late 1980s the only people ever seen hopping off when stopping the bike were the very short. Even many short people have no problem putting a foot down when they come to a stop. This includes short people who ride high performance. When we started seeing people hopping off it looked very strange.

OP should move his saddle up and move his saddle down. The world will not end if OP is a centimeter or three above or below what someone else thinks is correct.

In short races especially it used to be very normal for riders who had a flat tire to take a spare bike from anyone. All of us had the same pedal system, Campagnolo 1037. Always notable was that the guy who grabbed a bike that was slightly too big would drop out of the race pretty soon. Those who grabbed a bike too small needed a lap or two to adjust, but they did adjust. Have seen many tight sprint finishes with someone riding two inches lower than where they started.

livedarklions

I've been known to tell that joke on myself. Yes, it's a good way of quickly stopping at a stoplight and it has the added benefit of sending a very clear signal to drivers that I am indeed stopping. It's a very good urban riding technique where the stopping distances need to be very short and non-ambiguous to other road users.

I'm going to say that my one experience with riding a too big bike had some other, nard related consequences that will not be explained and definitely not be repeated on my part. A too small bike actually can be pretty fun.

PeteHski

This fits in with what the odd research study on saddle height has concluded ie. saddle too high is much worse than saddle too low. My own personal experiments with saddle height tend to agree. There is definitely an upper limit above which it quickly gets uncomfortable, but I can happily pedal 20+ mm lower than what I would consider my normal position - which I set quite conservatively around 10 mm lower than I can comfortably tolerate.

HumbleBiker

Personally I have experimented high to low saddle heights, some of which I barely grazed the ground when still seated on the saddle to others where more than just my toes touched the ground. Ideally it's really worth experimenting, try different saddle heights above and below your baseline/calculated height, and you'll find smth that you're comfortable with and able to produce more power per stroke. With my current saddle height, my toes touch the ground when extended but I always come off the saddle when coming to a stop.

Garfield Cat

In the long run, when the hips tend to rock side to side due to saddle height too high, the unintended consequence is hip pain after many years of wear and tear. Hip replacement surgery is what may happen.

Keep this in mind: everything you do for a good bike fit is basically compensatory. We are compensating for an activity (bike riding) that the body really isn't suppose to do.

ofajen

We are evolved to walk and run. IMO, that’s why standing to pedal seems natural if you have the right handlebar position. It begins to resemble running. Also why leaning forward some but not a lot (like when running) also seems natural.

Otto