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I have feelings about the "Hand-Hammered" look in fenders and other things

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I have feelings about the "Hand-Hammered" look in fenders and other things

Old 11-10-22, 04:46 PM
  #76  
steelbikeguy
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Originally Posted by cudak888
Ok, FIFY:

ooh! skirts on the rear wheel, white walls, and two-tone paint! Nicest tow truck of its era, I expect!
My faith in French style is restored.

Steve in Peoria
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Old 11-10-22, 04:57 PM
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"The Junkers was being used as part of a marketing campaign for some high-end luggage that used corrugated metal on the exterior because... no idea why, but apparently it was novel and interesting. ... sorta like curly stays on a Hetchins?..."
Steve in Peoria.

The Rimowa luggage is a different story. A German luggage house that built luggage the traditional way, wood frames, canvas or leather. For kicks they made some pieces from scrap from the Junkers airplane company.

The factory burned down. Going through the debris, they found the only thing still intact was the aluminum luggage and decided that was the direction they were going to go.
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Old 11-10-22, 04:59 PM
  #78  
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See how we turned this around?

We just have to take a minute to get out of our own way.

IMO, not possible to have a Brooks that doesn't look right, big rivets, small, hammered or not, copper, chrome, all good for me, love every single one, just not the new painted black rail ones quite as much.

No C+V bike is complete or correct for me without one, just the way it is.
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Old 11-10-22, 05:01 PM
  #79  
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And while we're at it, PSA at BTD, Brooks Swift for $147, pretty good deal now days.
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Old 11-10-22, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz

I personally studied Industrial Design (non-credited courses, on-line) through RISD during covid where I learned much about history, trends and technology. The "Hammered" look was brought up more than once as a thing which used to be hand-crafted, but can now be replicated with machines. I'm not a luddite, but the HH represented something.
Originally Posted by iab
Hmmmmmm.....

I was also trained as an industrial designer, but not as swanky as RISD. So my question is this, is my perception of RISD design history as swanky wrong, or were you a poor student? You are correct there was a movement, the arts & crafts movement, was a reaction to the industrial revolution. But it began in 1860, not 1930. That was called streamline.
Originally Posted by Robvolz

I personally studied Industrial Design (non-credited courses, on-line) through RISD during covid ....................
I wont question that this is hands to God gospel, but I got to say, that at this point my suspension of disbelief dropped off.....
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Old 11-10-22, 05:58 PM
  #81  
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Have hammered shortys been discussed yet? What's the concensus on those?
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Old 11-10-22, 06:00 PM
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This may have already been mentioned, dimpling provides a number of advantages.....One, being strength the other is aesthetic......hiding small bumps and bruises that occur in production and daily use.

dimpled....hide a dent

dimpled 2
Just as many of us that want to "roll" out (hide) a dented tube because our eyes are drawn to the small imperfection a dimpled surface will camouflage a damage area.
I suspect bicycle fenders were prone tho the inadvertent clash with a rock.
JM2C's, Ben
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Old 11-10-22, 06:10 PM
  #83  
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I would be tempted to take a ball peen hammer to a set of fenders to see how DIY hammered fenders would turn out. Unfortunately (or fortunately), I don't own a bike that would accept fenders.
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Old 11-10-22, 06:17 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by seypat
Have hammered shortys been discussed yet? What's the concensus on those?
I have a couple cool old broken dimpled fender scraps saved for.....
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Old 11-10-22, 06:22 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Murray Missile
Some of the bike boom brands that have little value are actually every bit as nice as their better known contemporaries. I realize Takara was best known for gas pipe entry level bikes but they did market some very nice mid level models as well. I'm always keeping an eye open for one of their top of the line road models to go with my '86 Highlander MTB. As far as collector value mine has zero value but with a Tange Cro-Moly frame and fork and full Suntour XC Sport components it's a damn nice bike just the same and one of my favorites. I don't know which Takara you have but if you like it and want fenders on it go for it.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Takaras. And both of them I have more money in than I could likely ever sell them for but who sells bikes anyway? They are indeed well built bikes, bullet proof as all get out. I have two, a 1980 950 Deluxe 12 and a 1981 970 Grand Touring. In high school, I had a 1981 960 Deluxe Touring. I'm still looking for a 960 and I would love to find a nice Takara Competition or Takara Professional. I've came across a couple of 960s but not in the condition I want to mess with. My Grand Touring would look good with fenders and they certainly would be useful, but I just haven't found what I want.

And in the spirit of gratuitous pictures, here is my 970, pardon the dirty skin wall tires, this is a great rain bike so the tires are a bear to keep clean.
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Old 11-10-22, 06:31 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by cudak888
It's practically impossible at this point not to bring up the Citroën H-series van.




-Kurt
Hammered fenders are a bit too arts and crafts for me, But I love the Citroen vans, the product, no doubt, of a love affair between the Tin Woodman and a French Bulldog. But I'll probably never own one: They've gone way up in price as of late.

I blame Rapha.


But let us not forget the lowly Citroen 2cv forgonnet with it's corrugated bed. I keep my eyes open for one of these. They've also leaped out of the "budget" category but still at prices I can stomach for a project car.

Brent
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Old 11-10-22, 06:34 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by Chuck M
Very nice.
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Old 11-10-22, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Chuck M
Don't get me wrong, I love my Takaras. And both of them I have more money in than I could likely ever sell them for but who sells bikes anyway? They are indeed well built bikes, bullet proof as all get out. I have two, a 1980 950 Deluxe 12 and a 1981 970 Grand Touring. In high school, I had a 1981 960 Deluxe Touring. I'm still looking for a 960 and I would love to find a nice Takara Competition or Takara Professional. I've came across a couple of 960s but not in the condition I want to mess with. My Grand Touring would look good with fenders and they certainly would be useful, but I just haven't found what I want.

And in the spirit of gratuitous pictures, here is my 970, pardon the dirty skin wall tires, this is a great rain bike so the tires are a bear to keep clean.
That looks an awful lot like the Takara I restored for the Clunker Challenge last year.



This one didn't originally have the downtube stripes, but I added them, taking inspiration from pictures I found online. It was a nice bike.
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Old 11-10-22, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by xiaoman1
This may have already been mentioned, dimpling provides a number of advantages.....One, being strength the other is aesthetic......hiding small bumps and bruises that occur in production and daily use.

dimpled....hide a dent

dimpled 2
Just as many of us that want to "roll" out (hide) a dented tube because our eyes are drawn to the small imperfection a dimpled surface will camouflage a damage area.
I suspect bicycle fenders were prone tho the inadvertent clash with a rock.
JM2C's, Ben
Another advantage of the dimpling is reduction of aerodynamic drag - just like a golf ball.

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Old 11-10-22, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by majmt
Another advantage of the dimpling is reduction of aerodynamic drag - just like a golf ball.

https://youtu.be/fcjaxC-e8oY
YUP! Makes that CV go like a Rocket!
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Old 11-10-22, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by xiaoman1
YUP! Makes that CV go like a Rocket!
So instead of "red bikes go faster," it should be "red bikes with hammered fenders go faster?"

-Kurt
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Old 11-10-22, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888
So instead of "red bikes go faster," it should be "red bikes with hammered fenders go faster?"

-Kurt
That's a Roger.......Especially down hill...
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Old 11-10-22, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by xiaoman1
That's a Roger.......Especially down hill...
I just realized - they must go even faster if the hammered fenders are red anodized.

-Kurt
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Old 11-10-22, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
That looks an awful lot like the Takara I restored for the Clunker Challenge last year.

This one didn't originally have the downtube stripes, but I added them, taking inspiration from pictures I found online. It was a nice bike.
Do you know what year that bike was? I'd assume older than mine due to the head badge, but the rear drop out screws and seat stay caps look like maybe newer.
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Old 11-10-22, 09:24 PM
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This thread touches on a lot of passions and interests of mine, interestingly enough including toasters. Yes I'm a nerd.

I've got an early 1930s Gazelle 129T31 toaster and a Sunbeam B5 Toastwich. Although the 1930s was a particularly bad time for many around the world, it was the perfect coming together of industrial design, decorative arts, and mass production. We will never see this golden age combination again, and some (much) of what came out of it will never be equaled, the pinnacle of modern industrial art...

Toastwich -



Gazelle -



While I actually think your point lamenting the loss of 'handcrafting' due to the presence of cheaper knock offs from mass production is a bit lost using the example of the T9 which was itself an excellent example of mass production, I do still see your point, like it, and I'd like to expand upon it, because I actually I like both - art and beauty through hand crafting and mass production. I appreciate the beauty and idiosyncrasy of individual objects crafted to be beautiful by one person (many times due to their rarity and skillful creation), and also items made by a machine that can cut, imprint, bend or stamp something that can create an equally powerful impression of beauty. I do think it tends to be easier to celebrate this 'beauty' that is made by one person, or a small team, since our awe is concentrated towards that one person or small group of persons, and the power of how it relates to us - we think about ourselves, and what is created was done by two hands just like we have - a healthy awe - similar to when we see impressive feats of athleticism. While mass produced items don't have this benefit, someone still had to have the inspiration for the design, someone had to design and make molds or presses, or machines that could make use of such molds or presses - a lot of moving parts and no less difficult of a feat to make happen. Then put it all together, and many times make it do something.

I think this is why the early days of this industrial design were so incredible - the wildly creative and beautiful designs we see, especially in production, whether it was cars, furniture, appliances, etc., was a celebration in the technological marvel of this relatively new and revolutionary manufacturing process, and was utilized to the fullest extent.

Nowadays it is a bit different - we live in a world in which mass production is mundane, and designs are prioritized now more for efficiency and cost than beauty. Therefore it is nice to see a departure from this sterile world, namely in the form of these stylized fenders.

In short, it is a question of the philosophy of beauty - can something be both beautiful and infinitely replicable? Is beauty that which is only temporary? Is beauty and rarity correlated? Is beauty something that becomes moreso the less degrees of separation from human hands, with all the individual distinctions and even imperfections therein creating and even enhancing it?

Deep questions. However, if I find something beautiful, I find that its source makes little difference.

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Old 11-10-22, 09:34 PM
  #96  
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My nephew loved The Brave Little Toaster when he was a youngster.
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Old 11-10-22, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Murray Missile
Very nice.
Here is the 950. This bike is too small for me hence the seat post being at maximum height. But it was in such pristine condition I had to buy it. This bike will belong to my grandson some day.

While the 970 and the 950 are both hi-ten, the butted tubes and aluminum wheels on the 970 make it a lighter bike even though the frame is larger (and a bit too big but very ridable).

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Old 11-10-22, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by AdventureManCO
This thread touches on a lot of passions and interests of mine...
Thank you for those insights into the crossroads of manufacturing history. One of the best posts I've ever read here at C&V.

-Kurt
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Old 11-10-22, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888
It's practically impossible at this point not to bring up the Citroën H-series van.




-Kurt
Has anyone mentioned that these vans are referred to as the toaster.

Last edited by gbi; 11-11-22 at 05:00 AM.
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Old 11-10-22, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by AdventureManCO
In short, it is a question of the philosophy of beauty - can something be both beautiful and infinitely replicable? Is beauty that which is only temporary? Is beauty and rarity correlated? Is beauty something that becomes moreso the less degrees of separation from human hands, with all the individual distinctions and even imperfections therein creating and even enhancing it?

Deep questions. However, if I find something beautiful, I find that its source makes little difference.

A timeless question. I prefer John Dewey's answer in Art as Experience. Good book, worth your time if you haven't checked it out.
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