Aardwolf

Hiya folks,
I almost bid on this last month, until I worked out it would be £130 train fare to collect it
It's an early 60s Holdsworth Cyclone with 'fishtail' lugs.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Holdswort...p2047675.l2557

But I should have made some enquiries (I don't even know if it's the wrong size for example) - it went for £50.




I also don't like the paint job - lug lining should be gold, and I think they're the wrong decals.
The other issue is it's got a "strengthening plate" on the bottom bracket:



So my question is: why would that plate be there ?

cudak888 

Very lousy rust repairs is my guess. Look at the other side of the BB where there seems to be evidence of brass or some other material covering up two additional pinholes. The inside-of-the-BB pictures also suggest the metal is pretty thin here, as I think I see the corresponding pinholes in this pic:



Methinks someone with a MIG welder tried to fix this one.

Also look at the chainstay bridge, which has a pair of globbed-on repairs - one on the top left, one on the right bottom. Then look at the chainstays themselves. That's not orange peel on the paint, that's very pitted steel that was painted over. Pretty clearly shown in the pictures too:



They left a broken adjuster screws in the leftdropout for the repaint. Not the height of craftsmanship going on here.



I think this one can be best summed up as...



I wouldn't have any regrets about passing on this pile.

-Kurt

Bianchigirll 

That’s weird. I would think the BB shell is the strongest part of the frame. Could it have been a mounting plate for something else? See how it doesn’t look smooth but seems to have a high point? I wonder if a stud or anchor nut was ground off. But what would it mount? A chain guard?

It’s a great looking frame though

Aardwolf

Aaaah, that makes a lot of sense.
I did spot the dodgy finish on the chainstays, but didn't immediately think rust pitting.
Looks like I dodged a bullet

It still looks good though (mostly).

Edit: And if it was left outside propped against something that plate is about where water might collect.

repechage

Cast shell that cracked?
the overall image set suggests
Danger! Will Robinson

Aardwolf

And another one turns up, already restored so mucho money.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165763675...torefresh=true

This one has the correct decals, and as far as I can tell the correct paint job (but I prefer red + white).

unworthy1

shame that a frame with such nice lugwork (yes that's a matter of personal taste but certainly represents a lot of original workmanship) was given such a rushed restro!
Maybe too much to expect but if the BB shell was rusted to the point of being compromised, I think welding on a plate to "repair that" (if it's actually as it appears) was a travesty. Likewise failing to remove the broken adjuster screw in DO before re-painting, c'mon: that's a PITA but nothing many of us haven't stuck with until done! It's not beyond "intermediate wrench level" with simple tools and then a good tap to clean out the threads.
I think I see what may be an RGF stamp on the BB shell, if so that's a "bulge-formed shell", and not cast, but cannot verify from those pix.
If one got this frameset cheap (and 50 pounds is very cheap) then might be worth the large investment of time and expense for a skilled repairist (repair therapist?) to flow in bronze and re-tap threads. Perhaps also a hot lead treatment to the chainstays, if the rust hasn't eroded them beyond hope.
But the "classy" paint, lining and decals might be totally wasted...what a shame. But as noted the decals are certainly not correct for a Cyclone of this vintage, especially the gold "Built by Holdsworthy" roundel on the lower seat tube. No loss if those got blasted away. IMO

Duke7777

Several years back I bought a cheap but abused Cyclone. Lovely lugs and overall a very nice frame. I really like the early 60s geometry. It came with a foot long, thin-walled alloy seat post that was seized and and broken off flush. The original right rear dropout had been replaced with a Campagnolo one, but the right seat stay had ended up about 1/4" shorter than the left. So it took a bit of work, but overall the frame was solid. I really like it now (https://www.flickr.com/photos/577760...h/26413031365/). I would agree with others that the red one on ebay probably has some deeper issues and would have been a risky purchase.

xiaoman1 

Don't feel bad about "missing" out on this one.....I would consider you to be one lucky BF member.
Best, Ben

scarlson 

I bet that the BB threads were stripped and then repaired.

One way to do this is to cut the BB open and then squeeze it back together to make it a slightly smaller diameter (material having been removed where the slit you cut was) and weld or braze it back together. If you braze it, putting a doubler plate on like this might not be a bad idea. Then you retap the threads. If done well, it can be quite strong.

The threads do look funny, maybe that's how it happened here.

I have previously filled with MIG or braze and then tapped, rather than doing it this way. But this is a common way to do it and I might try this way next.