SpeedyBlueBiker

Southern Illinois? I used to live in Carbondale. I'm sure someone down there would yell something at you while out on a ride.

mihlbach

I don't get yelled at much where I live in New York, but have spent some amount of time cycling in rural central Illinois. I used to get yelled at a lot until I started wearing a Marines jersey.
I suspect any jersey with US armed forces logos or wording on them will deter most people from yelling or otherwise harassing you.

Such as:

Maelochs

Super idea .... except I am not a vet.

i was going to suggest much earlier in the thread that it is legal to carry an unloaded long arm lung across the back in many states .... but i didn't want to set off that kind of discussion. Now, with quarantine, I guess I can getaway with it, saying I am stir-crazy.

mihlbach

My son wears Black Sabbath tshirts 'cause he's a fan, not because he's in the band. I don't see a difference here.

Maelochs

Purely personal preference. Some would see it it as honoring vets, some might see it as claiming honor they don't deserve. Whichever way each person feels is fine with me.

I really don't care if people wear pro-military clothes .... I have been wearing fatigues since before it became cool, then not cool, then sort of normal and not even noticed.

But personally, I am very touchy about claiming to be a vet. I am totally not interested in what others choose .... if you can wear a an armed forced jersey with pride, or even just to quiet unruly drivers, and it is good for you, it is good for me.

I was not in Black Sabbath, either. Saw them perform once though. Definitely worth the shirt.

mihlbach

That’s just an example I posted. There are plenty Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines jerseys that don’t say “veteran”.

Digger Goreman

Rhetorical question: Being a human being isn't enough?!

JayKay3000

We all have to be boxed into something or other.

But for the OP the driver was right. Break the traffic rules expect to get called out on it.

jon c. 

I wear Grateful Dead jerseys and no one yells at me.

I'm guessing there's no connection.

ZHVelo

Really? I almost never see cars actually stop and a stop sign. Stop means you rest. Maybe in the US it is different, but in Europe most people will still be rolling ever so slightly. That, too, in theory is breaking the law.

And how about motorcycles? It is against the law for them to ride between lanes, yet I never see them being called out for it when they do it to avoid traffic.

Rules are meant to keep society in check, does not mean that they are absolute. Matter of fact is, the passenger in the car is just pissed off that they cannot do the same - simply run a stop sign. That and probably a general dislike for cyclists because they feel infringed upon (a la "how dare they make me slow down and wait to overtake them, they shouldn't be on the road").

Rajflyboy

Well

you have the “We have rights” bicycle crowd

so.. this was part of the equal and opposite crowd “Respect those rights crowd”

Ross520

I'm confused, you're stealing valor because you're afraid of being yelled at?

If that is the case, then what you're doing is wrong on many levels, and I would suggest you discontinue your use of that jersey.

mihlbach

Don’t assume I’m not a veteran. At any rate, there are myriad jerseys with armed forces logos that make no such claims. You could substitute with a police jersey if you like. Or confederate jersey if in the south... or whatever works in your area. It is an effective tool that not only prevents yelling. I stopped getting coal rolled, swerved at, and having beer cans and other items thrown at me when I started regularly wearing my Marines jersey (not the one posted).

livedarklions

It wasn't the infrequency of posting I was responding to, it was that the one he chose to send after who knows how long was so trivial that it was funny.

livedarklions

Weird non-denial denial language in there, and you've clearly gone into ends justifying the means territory. Are you a veteran, and if not, does your jersey claim to be a veteran?

I'm also not sure you aren't committing stolen valor just by wearing the logo. wouldn't personally wear any military logo because I think there's a clear implication that I am somehow involved with the service and I don't feel I've earned the right to make that misrepresentation. I'd be interested in hearing whether veterans and serving military (or their families) feel the same way.

ZHVelo

Does it actually matter if he is a veteran? If it stops him being abused and harassed, I would imagine no veteran would stand in his way to stop that abuse, if anything, be proud that the idea of having served (still) instils such a respect that people stop being abusive.

livedarklions

Well, it's technically not a crime, but if you so much as accept a free cup of coffee based on a false representation of being a veteran, it is.


I don't think veterans are likely to see it the same way as you propose--they earned that respect. I, for one, have not and it would be wrong for me to claim it under any circumstances.
Stolen Valor

ZHVelo

He isn't accepting cups of coffee, he is ridding himself of abuse.

mihlbach

Im leaving my service out of it, because on the issue of the jersey as a self-defense tool, it is irrelevant. Would-be harassers have no idea who the wearer of the jersey is, and they certainly aren’t interested in stopping to question them about it. But even so, for someone who has not served, lying for self defense would be perfectly ethical, but yes it would be wrong to claim in other circumstances you are someone you are not. But anyone who would harass you from a motor vehicle is misjudging you. Wearing a jersey that appeals to them is just manipulating their misjudgement to something more positive (or possibly more fearful) in their eyes and keeps you safer.

livedarklions

These are both "ends justifying the means" arguments. Pick a different jersey that doesn't imply you deserve to be honored for something you didn't do. Assuming away the moral wrongness of the deception might satisfy your own personal values, but I doubt there's a lot of people who'd see it that way.

One of you also got a "two wrongs make a right" argument in there, too. Mazel tov.

mihlbach

You clearly have never been coal rolled 4 times and forced into a ditch on a single ride.

Kabuki12

I went for my Sunday ride this past weekend and was darn near plowed into by another cyclist! I was traveling in a bike lane past a housing track when a guy came out of the housing track from a downhill blast and right through a stop sign, directly in front of me. I avoided the impending collision, but was very angry in more ways than one. For one thing he could have caused serious injury to both of us, the other thing is , this is what gives the rest of us a bad image. Cyclists in my area mostly blow through stop signs and sometimes red lights and it angers me. I won't yell, it would do no good. It just bothers me that we are judged by those who cause inconvenience or dangerous situations to cars(or another cyclist!).

ZHVelo

Yea, I guess our morals are just different.

If you want your morals to let others suffer abuse despite an easy fix that harms no one except an idea, it means you place more value on an idea than preventing direct harm to someone. You say you believe most people would side with you? Probably, the idea of rags to riches / the American Dream is much more important than what actually happens to the majority of people, right? Ironically, every totalitarian regime ever also put ideas before people.

mihlbach

Livedarklions display of cognitive dissonance demonstrates why it is such a subtly effective defense tool. Fashion itself is an intentional form of deception that takes advantage of the tendency of people to just assume that someone's appearance accurately reflects their own interpretation of the appearance. Cycling jerseys are not military uniforms and it's perfectly legal and rational for anyone to wear one if it deters potentially dangerous harassment.

livedarklions

I've taken my share of abuse, thanks for asking, including close passes at 50 mph, and a near force off the road by a dump truck last Saturday, now that you mention it.

I laugh at coal rolling--it happens to me a lot, and it's a pretty lame assault.

Don't dress up like a soldier if you aren't one, this isn't a tough moral question. The reason it's stolen valor is that if people do it regularly on the fake basis, people who really have earned the respect won't get it when everyone just starts to assume it's probably a lie.