Flat Pedal Karma
11-19-21, 09:58 AM
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Flat Pedal Karma
OMG! another lesson learned !
so, I haven't really ridden with flat pedals in quite some years (decades ???
). Yeah, sure, I have fooled around for a short bit on bikes with flats on them, but not really for an actual 'ride'.
Spend most of my time on my roadies, but also have done a reasonable amount of time MTB, no DH, just allround riding on some local open spaces and our very extensive Los Padres Forest/backcountry. I am a conservative offroad rider, so careful and mostly slow, with some speed on routes I have confidence on.
So, on EVERY ride I'm always clipping into my 'clipless' pedals - most often some version of eggbeaters - this includes MTB...
For reasons of 'balance' due to health issues, I haven't ridden much in last 3 yrs, until this Apr, and NO mtb...
Wanted to get back into mtb, so went out to some Los Padres Firebreaks/Forest roads, wider single trac on Wed, solo... Decided I wanted to be 'safe', so I decide to ride the 'flat' side of some dual sided pedals I put onto my mtb...
Boy ! What a lesson. I was choppy on strokes, feet floating all over the pedals, and even sometimes slipping off ! Felt like total beginner !!!!
I had become completely reliant on being clipped in! Flats on roads for short sections seems not as 'telling' - on mtb/offroad, pedaling skills are really challenged !
I've decided to ride MTB at least once a week - and using FLATS !!! get some skills back!
Any suggestions/links/comments for things I should do, try or consider in getting some good Flat Pedal Skills back?
All comments/snarky or otherwise, are welcome on the topic ! LOL !
'Danny Mac, I am not... LOL!
Ride On (and keep learning...)
Yuri
so, I haven't really ridden with flat pedals in quite some years (decades ???
). Yeah, sure, I have fooled around for a short bit on bikes with flats on them, but not really for an actual 'ride'.Spend most of my time on my roadies, but also have done a reasonable amount of time MTB, no DH, just allround riding on some local open spaces and our very extensive Los Padres Forest/backcountry. I am a conservative offroad rider, so careful and mostly slow, with some speed on routes I have confidence on.
So, on EVERY ride I'm always clipping into my 'clipless' pedals - most often some version of eggbeaters - this includes MTB...
For reasons of 'balance' due to health issues, I haven't ridden much in last 3 yrs, until this Apr, and NO mtb...
Wanted to get back into mtb, so went out to some Los Padres Firebreaks/Forest roads, wider single trac on Wed, solo... Decided I wanted to be 'safe', so I decide to ride the 'flat' side of some dual sided pedals I put onto my mtb...
Boy ! What a lesson. I was choppy on strokes, feet floating all over the pedals, and even sometimes slipping off ! Felt like total beginner !!!!
I had become completely reliant on being clipped in! Flats on roads for short sections seems not as 'telling' - on mtb/offroad, pedaling skills are really challenged !
I've decided to ride MTB at least once a week - and using FLATS !!! get some skills back!
Any suggestions/links/comments for things I should do, try or consider in getting some good Flat Pedal Skills back?
All comments/snarky or otherwise, are welcome on the topic ! LOL !
'Danny Mac, I am not... LOL!
Ride On (and keep learning...)
Yuri
Last edited by cyclezen; 11-19-21 at 10:32 AM.
11-19-21, 10:08 AM
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Your riding skills suck that's all there is to it and you just need more practice .... I've ridden some very difficult trails on my MTBs with platform pedals and never had a problem with my feet slipping off the pedals. I will never use clipless pedals because platform pedals work very well for me.
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11-19-21, 10:19 AM
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OMG! another lesson learned !
so, I haven't really ridden with flat pedals in quite some years (decades ??? ). Yeah, sure, I have fooled around for a short bit on bikes with flats on them, but not really for an actual 'ride'.
Spend most of my time on my roadies, but also have done a reasonable amount of time MTB, no DH, just allround riding on some local open spaces and our very extensive Los Padres Forest/backcountry. I am a conservative offroad rider, so careful and mostly slow, with some speed on routes I have confidence on.
So, on EVERY ride I'm always clipping into my 'clipless' pedals - most often some version of eggbeaters - this includes MTB...
For reasons of 'balance' due to health issues, I haven't ridden much in last 3 yrs, until this Apr, and NO mtb...
Wanted to get back into mtb, so went out to some Los Padres Firebreaks/Forest roads, wider single trac on Wed, solo... Decided I wanted to be 'safe', so I decide to ride the 'flat' side of some duel sided pedals I put onto my mtb...
Boy ! What a lesson. I was choppy on strokes, feet floating all over the pedals, and even sometimes slipping off ! Felt like total beginner !!!!
I had become completely reliant on being clipped in! Flats on roads for short sections seems not as 'telling' - on mtb/offroad, pedaling skills are really challenged !
I've decided to ride MTB at least once a week - and using FLATS !!! get some skills back!
Any suggestions/links/comments for things I should do, try or consider in getting some good Flat Pedal Skills back?
All comments/snarky or otherwise, are welcome on the topic ! LOL !
'Danny Mac, I am not... LOL!
Ride On (and keep learning...)
Yuri
so, I haven't really ridden with flat pedals in quite some years (decades ???
). Yeah, sure, I have fooled around for a short bit on bikes with flats on them, but not really for an actual 'ride'.Spend most of my time on my roadies, but also have done a reasonable amount of time MTB, no DH, just allround riding on some local open spaces and our very extensive Los Padres Forest/backcountry. I am a conservative offroad rider, so careful and mostly slow, with some speed on routes I have confidence on.
So, on EVERY ride I'm always clipping into my 'clipless' pedals - most often some version of eggbeaters - this includes MTB...
For reasons of 'balance' due to health issues, I haven't ridden much in last 3 yrs, until this Apr, and NO mtb...
Wanted to get back into mtb, so went out to some Los Padres Firebreaks/Forest roads, wider single trac on Wed, solo... Decided I wanted to be 'safe', so I decide to ride the 'flat' side of some duel sided pedals I put onto my mtb...
Boy ! What a lesson. I was choppy on strokes, feet floating all over the pedals, and even sometimes slipping off ! Felt like total beginner !!!!
I had become completely reliant on being clipped in! Flats on roads for short sections seems not as 'telling' - on mtb/offroad, pedaling skills are really challenged !
I've decided to ride MTB at least once a week - and using FLATS !!! get some skills back!
Any suggestions/links/comments for things I should do, try or consider in getting some good Flat Pedal Skills back?
All comments/snarky or otherwise, are welcome on the topic ! LOL !
'Danny Mac, I am not... LOL!
Ride On (and keep learning...)
Yuri
General comment as I have never ridden clipless and don't MTB much, so advice would be worthless.
We had one of those "flats vs. clipless" threads a few years back, and I responded truthfully "I do that all the time" to the various "you can't ____ on flats" posts. After it became obvious that the posters were really saying "I can't ___ on flats" and also claiming that I only could because I lacked the skill to ride clipless, I finally said that they had convinced me that riding flats is actually a skill they lacked and that I have. This, of course, caused some indignation on their part.
So this is interesting to me, can you follow up in a while as to whether your flat riding improves with practice?
BTW, I freely admit that riding clipless is a skill I lack. I have a mechanical issue with my ankle that makes restraints of any kind very painful, so that's not going to change.
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11-19-21, 10:19 AM
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Sounds like your off-road skills have atrophied in general. I think once you get your overall confidence back, your pedal issues will diminish; in other words, they're a symptom, not the disease.
The two things that matter most when riding a mountain bike are weight distribution and momentum. Focus your attention on those, and the rest will fall into place.
The two things that matter most when riding a mountain bike are weight distribution and momentum. Focus your attention on those, and the rest will fall into place.
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11-19-21, 10:21 AM
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I wouldn't say it's a totally bad thing, but 3 years off would definitely contribute to some loss of the muscle memory that makes up a large part of handling skills. It'll take a few rides to get that back to the point where you don't have to think about your feet all the time.
I run SPD most of the time, but the 'townie' bike has flats on it; I take it out and do "skill drills" on it on the regular (bunny-hops and manuals) since your technique has to be sharper to do it on flats than with clipless.
Also do yourself a favor and get some better pedals if you want to ride flats for a while; the backside of most 'hybrid' clipless suck. Get some BMX-style flats for better support and grip: RaceFace Chesters are popular, as are some of the plastic-body pedals like the Oddessy Twisted and Animal Hamilton
I run SPD most of the time, but the 'townie' bike has flats on it; I take it out and do "skill drills" on it on the regular (bunny-hops and manuals) since your technique has to be sharper to do it on flats than with clipless.
Also do yourself a favor and get some better pedals if you want to ride flats for a while; the backside of most 'hybrid' clipless suck. Get some BMX-style flats for better support and grip: RaceFace Chesters are popular, as are some of the plastic-body pedals like the Oddessy Twisted and Animal Hamilton
11-19-21, 10:22 AM
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Some years ago I decided to go back to using flat pedals for MTB and never looked back. I've never really thought about the skill side of it though, so don't really have any suggestions there. Obviously don't try to pull on the upstroke!
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11-19-21, 10:46 AM
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Unless you are coming off when in the air, if you’re slipping off of your pedals much then either your pedals or your shoes (or both) suck. Get some decent flat pedals and shoes.
There is a HUGE difference between good flat pedals with a large platform and good pins vs whatever crap comes stock on a cheap bike, or what they use on the flat side of those combo pedals.
I am a big fan of the Deity Deftrap pedals. Huge, flat (slightly concave) platform, pins that are just aggressive enough, and the same quality rebuildable axles that come in their high dollar models. Around $55 off their site. But there other good affordable options as well (Kona Wha Wha 2 for example).
Cycling specific flat pedal shoes make a big difference as well. Five-Ten and Ride Concept (for example) both make a lot of great shoes for this. If you go the sneaker or hiking shoe route, go with the smoothest soles you can.
The most important technique tip for most people getting started on flats is to drop your heels when going through rough stuff.
There is a HUGE difference between good flat pedals with a large platform and good pins vs whatever crap comes stock on a cheap bike, or what they use on the flat side of those combo pedals.
I am a big fan of the Deity Deftrap pedals. Huge, flat (slightly concave) platform, pins that are just aggressive enough, and the same quality rebuildable axles that come in their high dollar models. Around $55 off their site. But there other good affordable options as well (Kona Wha Wha 2 for example).
Cycling specific flat pedal shoes make a big difference as well. Five-Ten and Ride Concept (for example) both make a lot of great shoes for this. If you go the sneaker or hiking shoe route, go with the smoothest soles you can.
The most important technique tip for most people getting started on flats is to drop your heels when going through rough stuff.
Last edited by Kapusta; 11-19-21 at 10:51 AM.
11-19-21, 10:47 AM
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I ride mtb with flats and road predominantly clipless. No problems with either.
Of course you need to improve technique but equipment wise I would say make sure your flats have pins or some other form of "grip" and shoes that work with them. Other than that, for the riding you describe, it's all familiarity and skill.
Of course you need to improve technique but equipment wise I would say make sure your flats have pins or some other form of "grip" and shoes that work with them. Other than that, for the riding you describe, it's all familiarity and skill.
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11-19-21, 11:18 AM
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Big fan of the RaceFace Chesters. I use them for road biking.
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11-19-21, 06:56 PM
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Unless you are coming off when in the air, if you’re slipping off of your pedals much then either your pedals or your shoes (or both) suck. Get some decent flat pedals and shoes.
There is a HUGE difference between good flat pedals with a large platform and good pins vs whatever crap comes stock on a cheap bike, or what they use on the flat side of those combo pedals.
Cycling specific flat pedal shoes make a big difference as well. Five-Ten and Ride Concept (for example) both make a lot of great shoes for this. If you go the sneaker or hiking shoe route, go with the smoothest soles you can.
The most important technique tip for most people getting started on flats is to drop your heels when going through rough stuff.
There is a HUGE difference between good flat pedals with a large platform and good pins vs whatever crap comes stock on a cheap bike, or what they use on the flat side of those combo pedals.
Cycling specific flat pedal shoes make a big difference as well. Five-Ten and Ride Concept (for example) both make a lot of great shoes for this. If you go the sneaker or hiking shoe route, go with the smoothest soles you can.
The most important technique tip for most people getting started on flats is to drop your heels when going through rough stuff.
Pedals are the hybrid style , SPD on one side and old school steel cage with teeth surrounding and what holds the shoe on the other side.
I wouldn't say it's a totally bad thing, but 3 years off would definitely contribute to some loss of the muscle memory that makes up a large part of handling skills. It'll take a few rides to get that back to the point where you don't have to think about your feet all the time.
I run SPD most of the time, but the 'townie' bike has flats on it; I take it out and do "skill drills" on it on the regular (bunny-hops and manuals) since your technique has to be sharper to do it on flats than with clipless.
Also do yourself a favor and get some better pedals if you want to ride flats for a while; the backside of most 'hybrid' clipless suck. Get some BMX-style flats for better support and grip: RaceFace Chesters are popular, as are some of the plastic-body pedals like the Oddessy Twisted and Animal Hamilton
I run SPD most of the time, but the 'townie' bike has flats on it; I take it out and do "skill drills" on it on the regular (bunny-hops and manuals) since your technique has to be sharper to do it on flats than with clipless.
Also do yourself a favor and get some better pedals if you want to ride flats for a while; the backside of most 'hybrid' clipless suck. Get some BMX-style flats for better support and grip: RaceFace Chesters are popular, as are some of the plastic-body pedals like the Oddessy Twisted and Animal Hamilton
My shimano shoes are quite like flat shoes, same type sole and upper. I'm gonna take the SPD cleats off and that might solve some of the 'slipping' issue.
But my mtb skills have deteriorated... and I currently suck
... but it's not like I didn't have some decent skills before, but became reliant on the clipless... The whole 'balance' issue, although getting much better again, becomes really obvious when I was on single track... I'll work at it and hope to suck less as I ride more... LOL!By the 3rd hour of the ride, things were improving a bit, but still sketchy...
LOL! "ching-ching" ??
11-19-21, 07:03 PM
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Dual sided pedals with one side platform and the other spd is probably the worst thing ever invented...Just get yourself proper MTB platform pedals with pins and a pair of grippy shoes and go riding. Practice makes perfect.
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11-19-21, 07:32 PM
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Unless you are coming off when in the air, if you’re slipping off of your pedals much then either your pedals or your shoes (or both) suck. Get some decent flat pedals and shoes.
There is a HUGE difference between good flat pedals with a large platform and good pins vs whatever crap comes stock on a cheap bike, or what they use on the flat side of those combo pedals.
Cycling specific flat pedal shoes make a big difference as well. Five-Ten and Ride Concept (for example) both make a lot of great shoes for this. If you go the sneaker or hiking shoe route, go with the smoothest soles you can.
The most important technique tip for most people getting started on flats is to drop your heels when going through rough stuff.
There is a HUGE difference between good flat pedals with a large platform and good pins vs whatever crap comes stock on a cheap bike, or what they use on the flat side of those combo pedals.
Cycling specific flat pedal shoes make a big difference as well. Five-Ten and Ride Concept (for example) both make a lot of great shoes for this. If you go the sneaker or hiking shoe route, go with the smoothest soles you can.
The most important technique tip for most people getting started on flats is to drop your heels when going through rough stuff.
Pedals are the hybrid style , SPD on one side and old school steel cage with teeth surrounding and what holds the shoe on the other side.
I wouldn't say it's a totally bad thing, but 3 years off would definitely contribute to some loss of the muscle memory that makes up a large part of handling skills. It'll take a few rides to get that back to the point where you don't have to think about your feet all the time.
I run SPD most of the time, but the 'townie' bike has flats on it; I take it out and do "skill drills" on it on the regular (bunny-hops and manuals) since your technique has to be sharper to do it on flats than with clipless.
Also do yourself a favor and get some better pedals if you want to ride flats for a while; the backside of most 'hybrid' clipless suck. Get some BMX-style flats for better support and grip: RaceFace Chesters are popular, as are some of the plastic-body pedals like the Oddessy Twisted and Animal Hamilton
I run SPD most of the time, but the 'townie' bike has flats on it; I take it out and do "skill drills" on it on the regular (bunny-hops and manuals) since your technique has to be sharper to do it on flats than with clipless.
Also do yourself a favor and get some better pedals if you want to ride flats for a while; the backside of most 'hybrid' clipless suck. Get some BMX-style flats for better support and grip: RaceFace Chesters are popular, as are some of the plastic-body pedals like the Oddessy Twisted and Animal Hamilton
My shimano shoes are quite like flat shoes, same type sole and upper. I'm gonna take the SPD cleats off and that might solve some of the 'slipping' issue.
But my mtb skills have deteriorated... and I currently suck
... but it's not like I didn't have some decent skills before, but became reliant on the clipless... The whole 'balance' issue, although getting much better again, becomes really obvious when I was on single track... I'll work at it and hope to suck less as I ride more... LOL!By the 3rd hour of the ride, things were improving a bit, but still sketchy...
LOL! "ching-ching" ??
11-20-21, 09:27 AM
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so... update... spoke with son... he thinks chesters would be a good step...
also decided I liked the SHimano shoes the way they are - work great with my shopping/errands/social ride bike, with the SPDs...
so I bought a pair of Ride Concept Livewires, and also ordered the Chesters from REI, with my 20% sale coupon...
so I'm committed to getting the most from my mtb time - there's a lot of great tips and drills on the web and youtube...
there really is a great variety of riding in my area, year-round !
Stoked !
Ride On
Yuri
also decided I liked the SHimano shoes the way they are - work great with my shopping/errands/social ride bike, with the SPDs...
so I bought a pair of Ride Concept Livewires, and also ordered the Chesters from REI, with my 20% sale coupon...
so I'm committed to getting the most from my mtb time - there's a lot of great tips and drills on the web and youtube...
there really is a great variety of riding in my area, year-round !
Stoked !
Ride On
Yuri
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11-20-21, 09:45 AM
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Good move.
Even if you end up going with clipless pedals for mtb at some point, riding with flats definitely improves skills that carry over to clipless.
Even if you end up going with clipless pedals for mtb at some point, riding with flats definitely improves skills that carry over to clipless.
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11-20-21, 10:17 AM
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I started using toe clips back in 1998. And use them on my three bikes. I was a daily commuter until this year (2021).
Also this year I bought an old folding bike that came with flat pedals (that fold up). They're just plain plastic pedals with some texture, but no pins.
I found I tend to end up pedaling with my feet pointing outward. But I haven't had any foot slippage as I feared I would. But I am not riding off-road.
I think pins, or strapless half-clips (small toe clips) may be a solution for you.
Also this year I bought an old folding bike that came with flat pedals (that fold up). They're just plain plastic pedals with some texture, but no pins.
I found I tend to end up pedaling with my feet pointing outward. But I haven't had any foot slippage as I feared I would. But I am not riding off-road.
I think pins, or strapless half-clips (small toe clips) may be a solution for you.
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11-20-21, 10:46 AM
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so... update... spoke with son... he thinks chesters would be a good step...
also decided I liked the SHimano shoes the way they are - work great with my shopping/errands/social ride bike, with the SPDs...
so I bought a pair of Ride Concept Livewires, and also ordered the Chesters from REI, with my 20% sale coupon...
so I'm committed to getting the most from my mtb time - there's a lot of great tips and drills on the web and youtube...
there really is a great variety of riding in my area, year-round !
Stoked !
Ride On
Yuri
also decided I liked the SHimano shoes the way they are - work great with my shopping/errands/social ride bike, with the SPDs...
so I bought a pair of Ride Concept Livewires, and also ordered the Chesters from REI, with my 20% sale coupon...
so I'm committed to getting the most from my mtb time - there's a lot of great tips and drills on the web and youtube...
there really is a great variety of riding in my area, year-round !
Stoked !
Ride On
Yuri
Let me just say that given the story you told in the other thread, that I admire the hell out of you challenging yourself to learn new things right now. Not sure this is worth anything, but you're rapidly becoming one of my favorite posters.
Right on, ride on!
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11-20-21, 07:09 PM
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I started using toe clips back in 1998. And use them on my three bikes. I was a daily commuter until this year (2021).
Also this year I bought an old folding bike that came with flat pedals (that fold up). They're just plain plastic pedals with some texture, but no pins.
I found I tend to end up pedaling with my feet pointing outward. But I haven't had any foot slippage as I feared I would. But I am not riding off-road.
I think pins, or strapless half-clips (small toe clips) may be a solution for you.
Also this year I bought an old folding bike that came with flat pedals (that fold up). They're just plain plastic pedals with some texture, but no pins.
I found I tend to end up pedaling with my feet pointing outward. But I haven't had any foot slippage as I feared I would. But I am not riding off-road.
I think pins, or strapless half-clips (small toe clips) may be a solution for you.
"flats' don;t need toe'prep', you just put your foot on them. More importantly, I think riding flats consistently will give me back some 'skills' I've lost or never had... Having ridden toe clips exclusively since '67 and directly to 'clipless', flats have always been those rare casual bimbles... I'm sure this will all be good for my skills.
Things which promote learning, expanding and pushing yourself, that's my salsa on life. Key is to not BS yourself... truthful evaluation of self, then a plan to meet a challenge. Thankfully none of my mistakes have been permanent... yet... LOL!
There's one thing which feels better than doing something well - that is learning to do and finally doing something well. Age doesn't deaden that feeling. That's the money.
So I'm totally stoked to be a better off-road rider...
We're all riders, we're all different - is what makes BF a very interesting way to enjoy a cuppa coffee and stroopwaffles... LOL!
Ride On
Yuri
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11-21-21, 08:34 AM
#20
Cheerfully low end
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Thought about the half-cage toeclips, but just a bit to fiddly for me...
"flats' don;t need toe'prep', you just put your foot on them. More importantly, I think riding flats consistently will give me back some 'skills' I've lost or never had... Having ridden toe clips exclusively since '67 and directly to 'clipless', flats have always been those rare casual bimbles... I'm sure this will all be good for my skills.
"flats' don;t need toe'prep', you just put your foot on them. More importantly, I think riding flats consistently will give me back some 'skills' I've lost or never had... Having ridden toe clips exclusively since '67 and directly to 'clipless', flats have always been those rare casual bimbles... I'm sure this will all be good for my skills.
Otto
11-21-21, 09:25 AM
#21
Senior Member
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11-21-21, 09:30 AM
#22
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Flat pedals are inferior for road riders, except in flatlandia. I don’t MTB so I won’t comment there.
Period. Unless you want to destroy shoe bottoms. OK, maybe spend a year trying to learn to climb with speed or spin at 90rpm with flat pedals.
Period. Unless you want to destroy shoe bottoms. OK, maybe spend a year trying to learn to climb with speed or spin at 90rpm with flat pedals.
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Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
11-21-21, 10:14 AM
#23
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Thanks for letting us know that flat pedals are inferior....I will continue to use my flat pedals for pavement riding.....and I assure you that I never had a problem spinning or climbing hills with my platform pedals. I learned how to spin and have a smooth pedal stroke by riding fixed gear and not by using clipless pedals.
11-21-21, 10:15 AM
#24
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Tell me you didn't read the OP without telling me you didn't read the OP
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11-21-21, 11:37 AM
#25
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A topo shows Toronto to be pretty much flatlandia.
Flat pedals for flat land.
Clips ‘n straps or clipless for the rest.
When walking I wear shoes, when backpacking in the mountains I wear hiking boots. Yes, I can hike in shoes, but the best tool for the job makes the task less difficult.
clear your handlebars and your mind will follow. but not all of you.
Flat pedals for flat land.
Clips ‘n straps or clipless for the rest.
When walking I wear shoes, when backpacking in the mountains I wear hiking boots. Yes, I can hike in shoes, but the best tool for the job makes the task less difficult.
clear your handlebars and your mind will follow. but not all of you.
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Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
