Bicycle recommendation for a short woman
01-24-22, 08:48 PM
#27
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Sorry but you are incorrect in your assumption. 80s top tubes weren’t that much shorter than in the 90s. Besides, your bike, and the bikes being suggested, is from the 90s or, in other words, the ones with the longer top tubes.
Mountain bikes generally have a longer top tube than road bikes. My 19” mountain bike frames…I’ve owned roughly 20 of them since 1984…have all had longer top tubes than my road bikes of the same era (or even later). That is typical. A smaller mountain bike may have a shorter top tube but they are likely to be longer than a road top tube. If you pick a bike that is larger but proportioned for a rider that is even larger, the problem is exacerbated. That goes for any era of bicycle.
Been there, done that, was there when “back in the day” was “the day”. A short stem and rearward swept handlebars can mess with steering. It makes the bike less stable than a longer stem by pulling weight back from the steering axis. This make the steering quicker but less predictable. A long top tube due to have a large frame pulls more weight back from the front wheel, which makes the bike even less stable.
My wife has tried swept back bars like the Velo Orange ones and found them uncomfortable in the long run. Her wrist angle was wrong with the wrist twisted at an angle. They ended up causing pain and numbness.
I would not expect any kind of toe overlap on a mountain bike of just about any kind. The top tube may be longer but the head angle is more slack as well which pushes the front wheel out further. With proportionally smaller feet, small people should never overlap issue with that kind of geometry. Road bikes might because they use steeper head angles, especially with fenders.
My wife is 5’ tall. I have put her on some pretty horrible bikes for a few reasons. First, and foremost, was because people just didn’t make a bike that was small enough for most of 3 decades. She also learned to ride on a bike that was my size and it took a lot of arguing to convince her that a 22” frame with 27” wheels that she had to hook a leg over to get only one foot on the ground was too large. She was used to that size and everything else felt too small.
I got her down to a 19” road frame in the 90s but was kind of stuck there for a while. In the early 2000s, I finally convinced her to try a Terry Symmetry with the 24” (520mm) wheel on the front. She liked that one but found the smaller front wheel to be a bit sketchy. About 2014, we found the aluminum Terry Symmetry with 650C (571mm) wheel and she found a bike that she could love. It fits, it’s stable, and it’s comfortable. It doesn’t require compromises.
All kinds of people will go on and on about how important frame fit is for comfort but then will ask a small person to “just deal” with what’s available. As an avid cyclist, I would never ride a mountain bike of any kind that is close to the same size as my road bike. A 22” mountain bike is huge and no amount of sliding the seat forward or putting on a super short stem or sweeping back the bars would make it more appropriate for me to ride. I’ve ridden bikes that are the wrong size but I’ve never ridden them for much more than a ride around the block. My wife isn’t nearly as avid a cyclist as I am and it’s taken a long tome for me to understand why.
Mountain bikes generally have a longer top tube than road bikes. My 19” mountain bike frames…I’ve owned roughly 20 of them since 1984…have all had longer top tubes than my road bikes of the same era (or even later). That is typical. A smaller mountain bike may have a shorter top tube but they are likely to be longer than a road top tube. If you pick a bike that is larger but proportioned for a rider that is even larger, the problem is exacerbated. That goes for any era of bicycle.
Been there, done that, was there when “back in the day” was “the day”. A short stem and rearward swept handlebars can mess with steering. It makes the bike less stable than a longer stem by pulling weight back from the steering axis. This make the steering quicker but less predictable. A long top tube due to have a large frame pulls more weight back from the front wheel, which makes the bike even less stable.
My wife has tried swept back bars like the Velo Orange ones and found them uncomfortable in the long run. Her wrist angle was wrong with the wrist twisted at an angle. They ended up causing pain and numbness.
I would not expect any kind of toe overlap on a mountain bike of just about any kind. The top tube may be longer but the head angle is more slack as well which pushes the front wheel out further. With proportionally smaller feet, small people should never overlap issue with that kind of geometry. Road bikes might because they use steeper head angles, especially with fenders.
My wife is 5’ tall. I have put her on some pretty horrible bikes for a few reasons. First, and foremost, was because people just didn’t make a bike that was small enough for most of 3 decades. She also learned to ride on a bike that was my size and it took a lot of arguing to convince her that a 22” frame with 27” wheels that she had to hook a leg over to get only one foot on the ground was too large. She was used to that size and everything else felt too small.
I got her down to a 19” road frame in the 90s but was kind of stuck there for a while. In the early 2000s, I finally convinced her to try a Terry Symmetry with the 24” (520mm) wheel on the front. She liked that one but found the smaller front wheel to be a bit sketchy. About 2014, we found the aluminum Terry Symmetry with 650C (571mm) wheel and she found a bike that she could love. It fits, it’s stable, and it’s comfortable. It doesn’t require compromises.
All kinds of people will go on and on about how important frame fit is for comfort but then will ask a small person to “just deal” with what’s available. As an avid cyclist, I would never ride a mountain bike of any kind that is close to the same size as my road bike. A 22” mountain bike is huge and no amount of sliding the seat forward or putting on a super short stem or sweeping back the bars would make it more appropriate for me to ride. I’ve ridden bikes that are the wrong size but I’ve never ridden them for much more than a ride around the block. My wife isn’t nearly as avid a cyclist as I am and it’s taken a long tome for me to understand why.
02-01-22, 12:01 PM
#28
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bike from post 9 above
She loves her bike. We have road and gravel wheel sets. She is trying to find a light weight road bike in size 44. That's been really difficult for us to find. A lot of manufactures
will sell there middle of the road frames in a 44 say like gravel or endurance but you can't find an Atheos in a 44. She is beast on the road hills. I can only imagine here with a 15 lb bike vs her 19lb. Our bikes weight the same but she is like 90 lbs vs 150lb for me. She would kill me up hill if she could get a bike 10% of her body weight. It's too bad they can't scale bikes.
She loves her bike. We have road and gravel wheel sets. She is trying to find a light weight road bike in size 44. That's been really difficult for us to find. A lot of manufactures
will sell there middle of the road frames in a 44 say like gravel or endurance but you can't find an Atheos in a 44. She is beast on the road hills. I can only imagine here with a 15 lb bike vs her 19lb. Our bikes weight the same but she is like 90 lbs vs 150lb for me. She would kill me up hill if she could get a bike 10% of her body weight. It's too bad they can't scale bikes.
02-03-22, 04:57 PM
#29
Senior Member
Actually it would not be that hard to find a 1970s or 1980s schoolboy race bike for a song and then the tire price would seem more reasonable.
More practical measures would start with shorter cranks. I would guess 150mm for the lady. Road cranks in that length are readily available.Looking at the last photo the acute angle at the knee is extreme. That means a lot of the pedal circle is dead while waiting for a possible power position to come around. Short cranks alone and you will be dropped cold on the hill.
In this case even shorter cranks might work better. BMX cranks can be adapted for road use, requires a bit of work.
Next up would be reducing trail. That means a longer rake. Available as custom only. There are now a good few builders working custom in carbon. I would start with 60mm rake for that bike.
The geo chart shows 70.5 head angle, 50mm rake. If those two numbers are correct the given trail number is completely wrong so re-measure with accuracy. But that is still a very high trail bike. High trail bikes want to go straight and it takes muscle or momentum to make them get off a straight line. A 90# rider does not have either. Neutral trail of 57mm or possibly even low trail would be better. Bikes are basically a lot of fun and small riders will put up with a lot if they get to play. My experience with changing lightweight riders to neutral trail is they say the bike is so fast they never seem to quite catch up. But playing catch-up is buckets of fun. Short cranks and some fork rake also ends toe overlap.
The excess weight of production carbon bikes is bizarre. My wife is at least relatively short at 5’3”. Her fast bike is a 1973 Colnago Super. Which was production when new, not a custom. And plain Columbus SL steel. Once we weighed it at 19# with light wheels. That is with a steel framed leather saddle and quill pedals with clips and straps. Then substituted a modern saddle and modern pedals. Nothing exotic, just new. Everything else normal to 1973. Just barely over 17#. Nothing on that bike is that unusual and it is all very very durable, particularly under a light rider. What could be done 50 years ago could be done now.
Stop even thinking about production bikes. If something like an Aethos is in your budget you are fully eligible for custom.
02-04-22, 05:11 PM
#30
Senior Member
bike from post 9 above
She loves her bike. We have road and gravel wheel sets. She is trying to find a light weight road bike in size 44. That's been really difficult for us to find. A lot of manufactures
will sell there middle of the road frames in a 44 say like gravel or endurance but you can't find an Atheos in a 44. She is beast on the road hills. I can only imagine here with a 15 lb bike vs her 19lb. Our bikes weight the same but she is like 90 lbs vs 150lb for me. She would kill me up hill if she could get a bike 10% of her body weight. It's too bad they can't scale bikes.
She loves her bike. We have road and gravel wheel sets. She is trying to find a light weight road bike in size 44. That's been really difficult for us to find. A lot of manufactures
will sell there middle of the road frames in a 44 say like gravel or endurance but you can't find an Atheos in a 44. She is beast on the road hills. I can only imagine here with a 15 lb bike vs her 19lb. Our bikes weight the same but she is like 90 lbs vs 150lb for me. She would kill me up hill if she could get a bike 10% of her body weight. It's too bad they can't scale bikes.
Did come across a euro retailer that sold NOS framesets a while back.
42.5cm Pinarello Gan Disc is 348mm reach / 504mm stack.
43cm Pinarello Prince disc is 356mm reach / 513mm stack.
Last edited by tangerineowl; 02-04-22 at 05:41 PM. Reason: txt
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02-06-22, 05:36 PM
#31
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Kuota [Italian] did some carbon 700c racing bikes that small a few years back. Seen a number in the Japanese market.
Did come across a euro retailer that sold NOS framesets a while back.
42.5cm Pinarello Gan Disc is 348mm reach / 504mm stack.
43cm Pinarello Prince disc is 356mm reach / 513mm stack.
Did come across a euro retailer that sold NOS framesets a while back.
42.5cm Pinarello Gan Disc is 348mm reach / 504mm stack.
43cm Pinarello Prince disc is 356mm reach / 513mm stack.
It's nothing but bloody mindedness, just how much effort and cost they will put into making a seriously BAD design, with 700c wheels.
It's easy to pick a bad design. A bad design will have a 74, 75, 76 degree seat tube angle, where as a good design will have a 73 degree seat tube angle at the most. Really well designed SMALL frames, will have even slacker seat tube angles, than 73 degree.
You can pick it in a heart beat. The stack and reach numbers are just a game they play in order to convince you, and themselves, that they have done the right thing.
end rant/
Last edited by AnthonyG; 02-06-22 at 09:00 PM. Reason: grammar.
02-11-22, 05:51 PM
#32
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Just found a mythic (it’s not in their catalog) 2000 Schwinn Homegrown Factory 13” frame (11” center to center) at my local co-op. This one replaces a Specialized Myka (no picture) that replaced the Univega in a post above. I had the fork on the bike shortened to 60mm of travel so as to gain more standover for my tiny spouse. We gained 1.5” over the Myka (and Univega) with this smaller frame. Also dropped 2 lbs over the Myka (26 to 24 lb). Some adjustment still needed…the saddle is way too low but she hasn’t ridden it yet.
If a small woman (< 5’3”) is looking for a mountain bike to convert to road bike, this is the size they should be looking for. Unfortunately, very small frames are hard to come by.
If a small woman (< 5’3”) is looking for a mountain bike to convert to road bike, this is the size they should be looking for. Unfortunately, very small frames are hard to come by.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
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Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
