chas58

That is rather my point. At that point, 2x makes more sense than 1x.
I do laugh when MTB switch out their chain rings and I hear them debating what size ring to use that weekend. I haven't heard that in my gravel circles - likely because people in that delima just get 2x - and the one's that are not bothered by it get 1x.


[QUOTE=tyrion;22099256]I don't race (or even ride very fast) but I like to look at what racers use because racing provides a nice test of technology. In this year's Unbound (formerly Dirty Kanza) race the leaders used both 1x and 2x - no clear "winner" on how many chainrings is best.

Yeah, its a bit different in an endurance race, isn't it? If I wasn't doing a bit of sprinting or really pushing it in the 30-40mph range, 1x would be fine (assuming the cadence issue didn't bother me). There is no real downside for 2x though. If I'm doing this type of endurance race, I'm in the small chain ring. If I'm doing a shorter faster ride with a lot of surges and sprinting, I'm in the larger chain ring. Nice to have a choice. But of course, not everyone need that flexibility.

unterhausen

I saw a picture of the finish of unbound so I thought there might have been a sprint. There was, if you count 20mph as a sprint.

chas58

That is a good summary. If you need the the variety of gears and range and cadence, 2x is good.
If you need frame geometry options (i.e. on a full suspension MTB, or want to go above 40mm on a gravel bike) then 1x has some strong benefits.

Weight isn't really an issue (my bike was heavier in its 1x build)
Maintenance wise - you are going to have more cassette, chain ring, and chain maintenance (and need a more expensive clutch derailleur) on 1x, so I'm not sold that it is always less maintenance.

1x is clearly easier for beginners, but ironically entry level bikes are the last to get it.

ksryder

Men's race ended in a slow sprint that both guys admitted was not a very fast sprint. Women's race ended in a 20-mile breakaway.

The first year I did it in 2015 the men's winner came back from a 17-mile gap and the race ended in a sprint. At the time it was a big deal because the finish was never that close and the idea of sprinting after 200 miles was nuts. But now that the pros are showing up I think it's probably going to be pretty common.

Looking at what the contenders ride is fun but I'm not sure how much it tells you other than fast people are fast no matter what they ride. Ted King won on a Cannondale Slate one year, but he was going to win that year no matter what. I think he won on a Cannondale Topstone the next year IIRC. But the publicity wasn't enough to keep Cannondale from discontinuing the Slate, I guess.

scottfsmith

While it is true that in the worst case the cross-chaining is worse on a 2x, if you have something like Shimano's Synchro Shift (or do similar manual shifting patterns) won't you overall have better chain alignment in 2x? In the big ring you will be on the smaller tooth gears in the back and the reverse for the small front ring. So each of the front rings have a narrower set of cassette gears they need to work well in, which also aligns with the side they sit on up front .. so, better chain alignment on average than trying to reach all the cassette gears from the same front ring.

I don't have any 1x and don't know much about it so maybe there is something I am missing here.

Kapusta

Um, no. That’s not actually a thing. I have never known someone with 1x that bothers to swap rings for a weekend. And I know a LOT of mountain bikers.

It might happen for some particular racing formats, but you see the same thing in pro road races where they are using 2x. Though usually cassettes rather than rings.

Think about it, modern 1x12 mtbs have a ~500% range. That is the same range as a 30/46 crank with an 11-36 cassette

chas58

Funny guy. I understand that your experience is more limited than mine. That is why we share our varied experiences here. :-)

Lazyass

I was always skeptical of 1x in general. Then a year ago I bought a new MTB with an SLX 1x group and an 11-46 XT cassette and I loved it as soon as I started pedaling. I was actually more skeptical of the gear range for a mountain bike than anything else because of all the elevation changes and steep hills I don't get on the road. But it's been no problem. I love that there's no chain slap or dealing with getting a FD tuned so that you never have chain rub. And it's amazing how it's even so much easier to clean the drivetrain.

I have a disc road bike with 105 and I'm considering upgrading to a Force 1. I'd have no problem with it on a gravel bike.

Hmmm

Can we all agree that both are amazing and that we are beyond privileged to even have an opinion on the matter?

Badger6

Sure.

Badger6

Strongly recommend against it on a road bike for all the reasons listed above...primary being the spacing of the gears will leave you hunting for the right gear in nearly all instances.

Badger6

It is....I do it. It takes 15 minutes because I clean everything really well since my chainring is also attaching to a powermeter.

Badger6

That's too bad, because their newer stuff's the business...other than their crazy SCS rear hubs for two years.

himespau 

I'm just lazy and ride a triple. When I'm out on the road, I spend most of my time in my middle (42) ring and, when I get to the second smallest cog on the back, switch to my 53 if I want harder. Similarly, when I get to my second largest cog, I switch to my 30 if I want easier. So I only really use 12-14 out of my 30 possible gears most of the time (hills where I've switched to the little ring early because I know I'll need it or segments where I'm sprinting and start out easier in the big ring are exceptions). Electronic shifting isn't in my budget, but I could totally see the value in a system that you just shifted up or down and it would calculate which derailleur to use (or both) depending on how far you'd pushed the lever (I use campagnolo) and skipping overlapping combinations. For someone lazy like me, I could see the appeal of 1x. I like the options of having more combinations (like using the biggest 8-9 on back in my little ring for hills or shifting through the littlest 5 on my big ring when I'm doing intervals or trying to get a PR on a specific kilometer segement), so I wouldn't go that route, but I see the appeal.

Kapusta

Well Chas58 is having a good laugh at you.

hubcyclist

My CX bike is 2x11 sram, For the most part I like having a 46/36 crankset and having gearing choices when I'm on the road. In CX race scenarios, though, I don't use the 46 that much and in the 2019 season an apparent bent 46 chainring caused some untimely chain drops in a couple of my races (I have chain catcher but that apparently didn't help!). While I'm not rushing out to get a 1x crankset, I think something in between 46 and 36 would work out well for racing purposes. Removing potential problem points, especially in competition where a wider range of gearing isn't totally needed, definitely has appeal to me

Badger6

He might be...but while he was amusing himself, I was all over the Schwarzwald. This weekend, I'll be straddling the border between the Ardennes Forest and the Eiffel Naturpark. I won't be able to hear it.

Lazyass

The reason I'd have no problem with it is I don't have any serious climbs where I live. After I got into single speed bikes a few years ago I started riding my geared bikes in the big ring all the time. Now I've switched from a standard to a compact crank and I ride in the 50T 100% of the time, I don't even go into the small ring when I stop. I still almost never have to shift into the 28.

However, I do drive out to the mountains a few times a year and a 34T is good for those roads. So I doubt I'll actually get a 1x, I'm leaning toward the Force 22.

Hmmm

I rode 1x for 2 years on my 'cross bike with road tires on it. There was one cog jump in the middle of the cassette that seemed a little big but after a few rides I didn't notice it. Once on a very fast group ride I ran out of gears on a corner descent.

Other than that I was pleasantly surprised with 1x on the road. It was great.

Badger6

My advise against is not that it won't work, because it definitely will. When I ride road, it is about 50% solo training rides and 50% group. When training, I could care less about my speed, all I care about are power targets. But, in a group, speed matching is critical, and for me, the jumps in the middle make doing that pretty difficult without also continually changing my cadence. Purely my opinion based on personal experience.